KCFDC Forum

General => Tournaments => Topic started by: DDKC Scott Reek on April 30, 2014, 07:49:51 AM

Title: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on April 30, 2014, 07:49:51 AM
Welcome to the 2nd Midwest Amateur Championship held in Kansas City on August 2 and 3rd, 2014. This is a PDGA B Tier event and is designed to give a professional atmosphere for an Amateur Only Event.

1 round each day on a Tee Time format. Waterworks and Rosedale Disc Golf Course will be used and set up in their championship positions.

This year we will once again have a killer players package and Tall Grass Brewery is on board as our title players package sponsor.

$50 for all Amateur Divisions
$40 for Recreational (Trophy only)

Registration will open for this event on May 8th and based on last years registration, it will fill fast.

You can register online or
Dynamic Discs - Kansas City
2854 W 47th Ave
Kansas City, KS 66103

Online Registration
http://dynamicdiscs.com/disc-golf-tournaments/2014/midwest-amateur-championship.html (http://dynamicdiscs.com/disc-golf-tournaments/2014/midwest-amateur-championship.html)

Current Pre Reg List

Rosedale Disc Golf Course (KCFDC)
http://kcfdc.org/disc-golf-courses/kansas/rosedale-park/ (http://kcfdc.org/disc-golf-courses/kansas/rosedale-park/)

Rosedale Disc Golf Course (DGCourseReview)
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1778 (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=1778)

Waterworks Disc Golf Course (KCFDC)
http://kcfdc.org/disc-golf-courses/missouri/waterworks-park/ (http://kcfdc.org/disc-golf-courses/missouri/waterworks-park/)

Waterworks Disc Golf Course (DGCourseReview)
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=86 (http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=86)

(http://dynamicdiscs.com/flyers/2014/Midwest-Amateur-ChampionshipL.jpg)
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on April 30, 2014, 07:50:13 AM
What items would everyone like to see in their players package this year. For the MAC, we try to have a larger than normal players package and still provide a professional experience.

As of now, it is looking to be 3 Discs, T-Shirt, DD Shoes and a Tall Grass Koozie and whatever else we can come up with for the players package. (Subject to change)
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: robm on April 30, 2014, 08:23:29 AM
GOOD MORNING!

Wowza.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: otter on April 30, 2014, 08:32:30 AM
Compartmental mini's are always cool!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: KCWaldo on April 30, 2014, 08:33:07 AM
Looks good so far.  A decent towel would be cool.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Steve the Quiz Berry on April 30, 2014, 09:04:38 AM
Am I reading that right?.. Everybody gets a pair of Shoes..?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Douug on April 30, 2014, 12:17:54 PM
What items would everyone like to see in their players package this year. For the MAC, we try to have a larger than normal players package and still provide a professional experience.

As of now, it is looking to be 3 Discs, T-Shirt, DD Shoes and a Tall Grass Koozie and whatever else we can come up with for the players package. (Subject to change)

(Maybe a DD grab bag of some or "All" ;) of the following?)

DD Microfiber Towel, LED Glow Lights, DD Rosen bag, DD Water bottle, 2013 PDGA Disc Golf Rule Book Manual
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Anthony Puryear on April 30, 2014, 10:22:36 PM
I always like getting a bag that way I can give it to a friend and get them to start playing. But the shoes sound awesome too!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Shucky Ducky on May 05, 2014, 08:37:24 AM
Shoes...really....shoes....say it is so Scott! You are turning this into the GBO EAST as far as Players Packs are concerned.  ;D Already putting this on the schedule.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: bMathews on May 05, 2014, 03:26:26 PM
Will the courses/divisions be split up on either day then? Kinda like the Rosedale open and KanUWyCo?

I.E. Advanced, Advanced Masters, Advanced women play Rosedale Saturday then WW Sunday.  Intermediate and Recreational play WW Saturday and Rosedale Sunday?

Or will everyone play Rosedale Saturday then WW Sunday?

Just wondering...
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on May 06, 2014, 07:58:22 AM
There will be 2 Pools.  Everyone will play Rosedale on one day and Waterworks on the other day.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on May 06, 2014, 09:35:55 AM
Registration will be live on Thursday.  After coming back from the GBO, we are pretty motivated and the ideas are flowing.  Make sure to get registered early to secure your spot
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: bbjon on May 07, 2014, 01:50:56 PM
What items would everyone like to see in their players package this year. For the MAC, we try to have a larger than normal players package and still provide a professional experience.

As of now, it is looking to be 3 Discs, T-Shirt, DD Shoes and a Tall Grass Koozie and whatever else we can come up with for the players package. (Subject to change)

Hope you will have a 13 EEE shoe, and a 4XL t-shirt available!  Sounds like a great players pack.  I would like to see Water Bottles, and a towel.  Two things that are always in high demand in Aug in the midwest; water and a sweat rag!  That Friday is my birthday so I'll be there for sure. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on May 08, 2014, 11:49:40 AM
Registration is officially Open!!!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: hberciunas on May 10, 2014, 09:32:08 AM
Registered today!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: bMathews on May 13, 2014, 08:59:01 AM
With registration filling up quickly, how many players if the field limited to?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on May 13, 2014, 05:42:44 PM
With registration filling up quickly, how many players if the field limited to?

144 Total, 72 per pool
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: bbjon on May 14, 2014, 12:00:48 PM
Just signed up.  This one is going to be fun.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on May 14, 2014, 09:19:17 PM
With registration filling up quickly, how many players if the field limited to?

144 Total, 72 per pool

sorry just realized I got this confused with paradise diamond.

The MAC will have 156 in each pool
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on June 03, 2014, 05:53:38 PM
The registrations are coming in.  We are planning a one rounder on the Friday before the event (August 1st) along with Team Who Man with a Friday Clinic and Saturday they will be present with an obstacle course during the players party.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on June 06, 2014, 10:15:50 AM
A few more registrations are in and updated.

Current players pack:
Dynamic Disc
Latitude 64 Disc
Westside Disc
Dynamic Discs Skate Shoes
Dri Fit T-Shirt
Dymax Mini Marker
Entry to the Tall Grass Players Party
Custom Event Sticker
Mini Mechanical Golf Pencil
Tall Grass Koozie

Win your card prizes for both rounds
Random Drawings for players throughout the weekend

and we are still 2 months away, so who knows what else we will add to the event, but you have to be registered in order to play and be apart of this awesome event.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on June 12, 2014, 10:01:39 AM
Registration is is just short of the 100 registered players mark with 7 weeks to go. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Marc Johnson on June 27, 2014, 12:20:22 PM
Any word on where current registration stands at?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: robm on June 27, 2014, 12:41:36 PM
Scott Reek is on his honeymoon.  It will be awhile before you get an update.
Meanwhile, check here:

http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/17598 (http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/17598)

Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Marc Johnson on June 27, 2014, 12:59:46 PM
Thanks, Rob. Congrats to Scott, also!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: zwarren on June 30, 2014, 03:23:56 PM
Hey guys/gals,

Does anyone know what days the Advanced division will be playing Water Works and/or Rosedale.

Lastly, is it the top or down under layout for Rosedale?

Thanks, see you in August! ;)
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on June 30, 2014, 04:53:33 PM
both pools play WW/Rosedale (top only) on tee times.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 01, 2014, 11:36:20 AM
We are officially 1 month away from the Midwest Amateur Championships and registration is picking up.  I have had 10 registrations in the last 24 hours.  There will not be any day of registration, online registration will end on July 31st.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 01, 2014, 11:37:19 AM
Hey guys/gals,

Does anyone know what days the Advanced division will be playing Water Works and/or Rosedale.

Lastly, is it the top or down under layout for Rosedale?

Thanks, see you in August! ;)

We will be playing Rosedale Top Only and I have not decided on the pool assignments or which day pools are playing which course yet.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 03, 2014, 12:14:50 PM
Nearly 150 registered players.  Below is how many are left for each division.  The amount per division could change based on registrations come in.  This is just as of today (7/3/14)

Advanced Men - MA1 (59)
Intermediate Men - MA2 (19)
Recreational Men - MA3 (25)
Amateur Masters - MM1 (36)
Amateur GrandMasters - MG1 (7)
Advanced Women - FW1 (11)
Intermediate Women - FW2 (8)
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 07, 2014, 12:17:58 PM
Over half of the Midwest Amateur Championship spots have been pre registered for, courses are getting set and players packs are being put together.  Are you registered yet?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: thankyoupeter on July 07, 2014, 12:36:56 PM
Do you know what the pin settings will be yet for each course? 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: artisan on July 08, 2014, 07:25:56 AM
i heard a rumor about ob lines being painted at rosie.  Is this true? 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: bMathews on July 08, 2014, 11:01:06 AM
Will everyone be playing the same course each day?

Or will 1/2 the field play Rosie Saturday then WW Sunday, while the other 1/2 plays vice-versa?

I will not be able to make the tournament since all my brothers will be in town, but we DO want to play some DG together.

We will probably play some of the other courses in town, especially if its muddy at all, but I was just wondering...
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on July 08, 2014, 12:17:29 PM
You will want to figure out where to play besides WW and Rosie on these days.  Cliff Drive will be available if you are wanting to stay in the area, and should be in pretty good shape by then as well.  The pools will be playing these courses all day on the 2nd and the 3rd.

Sorry about your luck, hope this helps.  Always good to see family though!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: bMathews on July 09, 2014, 01:03:11 PM
No worries Jack, I figured that would be the case. It's going to be better to just use some of the other fine courses we are so lucky to have here.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 09, 2014, 01:56:35 PM
As of now, there are only 5 spots remaining in MA2 (Intermediate Men), 20 spots in MA3 (Recreational Men) and 2 spots in MG1 (AM Grand Masters)
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 09, 2014, 01:57:25 PM
I am hoping Pins will be set next week.  I will post all of the settings and hole details, such as OB once I have them in place
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 09, 2014, 02:12:51 PM
I have had a few players who have volunteered to help with this event.  I am also looking for a few people who are not competing in the event that would like to be part of the staff to help make this event a success.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 13, 2014, 10:02:51 PM
Current Schedule of Events as of 7/13/2014

Players Pack Pick up 7/30 - 8/3 from 10-6pm at the Dynamic Discs Kansas CIty

Registration ends at Midnight CST on July 31st.

Tee Times will be posted on August 1st.

Pool A
Advanced Men
Intermediate Men

Pool B
Amateur Masters
Amateur Grand Masters
Advanced Women
Intermediate Women
Recreational Women
Recreational Men
Juniors

Pool A plays Waterworks on Saturday and Rosedale on Sunday.

Pool B play Rosedale on Saturday and Waterworks on Sunday.

All Awards will be at Rosedale on Sunday after the completion of both pools.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 14, 2014, 12:28:35 PM
The Intermediate Mens MA2 Division is officially full
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 15, 2014, 11:15:22 AM
Rosedale is in MAC position and Waterworks should be sometime tomorrow.  I will post the details soon such as OB, distances and Mandos
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jteater on July 16, 2014, 12:04:30 PM
I have a question for anyone who has ran a tournament or set one up. Why do holes have to be added and the course changed around. Waterworks is a well know course and a place people want to visit to play. Then they get here and it is a whole different layout.  I understand for pros and open players, but this is for an amateur championship.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: thankyoupeter on July 16, 2014, 12:30:24 PM
I have a question for anyone who has ran a tournament or set one up. Why do holes have to be added and the course changed around. Waterworks is a well know course and a place people want to visit to play. Then they get here and it is a whole different layout.  I understand for pros and open players, but this is for an amateur championship.

It sounds like the WW layout will barely be changed at all.  4 and 5 will be combined, and 17 will play to 12's basket on the hill, that's it.  Every other hole will be at a standard setting, with the exception of the two temp holes, which are just a bonus in addition to the standard layout. 

On another note, I want to say thanks to Scott for both putting some thought into unique hole configurations for this event, and also for having Rosedale set up well in advance for the opportunity to practice.  Thanks!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: robm on July 16, 2014, 12:57:57 PM
Joe - this is not a ball buster, just my thoughts...

I think the intention for the MAC is to give Ams the experience of playing in a larger tournament without paying a $100 entry fee.  Tee times for instance are never utilized for a C or B tier.  Sometimes A, but not B or C. 

With larger tournies, such as GBO, Shunga Nunga, etc., tightening up the fairways and extending them is part of the tournament experience.  Admittedly, I tend to shoot below my rating on longer holes, mandos, OB rope, etc.  However, I enjoy them more when they are utilized in a tournament.  If I want to play the normal course, I go to league or have a casual but serious round with my friends.  For tournaments, I personally want the difficulty kicked up a notch.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Marc Johnson on July 16, 2014, 01:54:25 PM
I agree with some of the comments here. Where as I don't personally have the tournament experience, I can get as much experience playing the same course over and over but not gain 'that' much knowledge of 'how to play'. Just in preparation for the MAC, I've started playing Rosedale and Water Works on an alternating schedule every week. Yet, I'm quickly learning it doesn't really matter with the regular course set ups, a tournament NEEDS to change the regular layouts. The whole point of playing disc golf, is to have fun, get better, and compete against your own play, as well as others.
I, for one, am excited to play new courses and set ups. I believe that's where the true reward is in playing tournaments.
Just my thoughts...
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: white mccoy on July 16, 2014, 02:22:21 PM
Joe - this is not a ball buster, just my thoughts...

I think the intention for the MAC is to give Ams the experience of playing in a larger tournament without paying a $100 entry fee.  Tee times for instance are never utilized for a C or B tier.  Sometimes A, but not B or C. 

With larger tournies, such as GBO, Shunga Nunga, etc., tightening up the fairways and extending them is part of the tournament experience.  Admittedly, I tend to shoot below my rating on longer holes, mandos, OB rope, etc.  However, I enjoy them more when they are utilized in a tournament.  If I want to play the normal course, I go to league or have a casual but serious round with my friends.  For tournaments, I personally want the difficulty kicked up a notch.

^^This

I agree with some of the comments here. Where as I don't personally have the tournament experience, I can get as much experience playing the same course over and over but not gain 'that' much knowledge of 'how to play'. Just in preparation for the MAC, I've started playing Rosedale and Water Works on an alternating schedule every week. Yet, I'm quickly learning it doesn't really matter with the regular course set ups, a tournament NEEDS to change the regular layouts. The whole point of playing disc golf, is to have fun, get better, and compete against your own play, as well as others.
I, for one, am excited to play new courses and set ups. I believe that's where the true reward is in playing tournaments.
Just my thoughts...

And This^^^


Who wants to play the same course you can play any day of the week all year long.  And the people travelling in from out of town are still playing on the same hills, grass, trees.  They just don't get to play the easier set-up we play all year long.

Challenge yourself!

I'm excited to watch my friends play well on these amped up courses ;)
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on July 16, 2014, 02:23:11 PM
It is a CHAMPIONSHIP that they want to entice to grow.  This is a method they feel will enable that.  Personally, I despise temp holes, so my judgement is out slightly already on that.  We do have a great track.  We don't alter and add for the Wide Open even with the Pro's when used as an NT event, so i am perplexed as well at the decision to add holes on what many consider their favorite KC course.

That being said, it is the sole discretion of the TD to create an environment that they feel will excite and entice the competitors.  We have used Rope at WW in the past, and several varying configurations over the years for final 9's as well as a standard 18 hole format with mandos and double mandos over the years.

The result hopefully will enable a fun and enjoyable experience at golf and a chance to say, remember when they did that at that one tourney......We say that now about #18, when the DOUBLE MANDO was there before we lost trees.

If we don't address the erosion and the mature degradation of the trees, we will continue to need to find solutions to make the course as premier as it stands today.  Those are more important issues than moving and adding holes IMO.

I for one though am all excited to play in an event that I don't run again, which all of you should be.  If you want to make it work a different way, please work with the BoD and ask to run events... ;D

I will be interested to see how it plays tonight, so reserving some judgement now for certain!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: robm on July 16, 2014, 03:01:04 PM
I think tonight will be a good test.  It may go great, it may show tweaks need to be made.




Just don't come to league tweaking.  Because it is a real bother when a stranger follows you around and he's out of his freakin' mind.

Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jamidanger on July 16, 2014, 03:04:39 PM
carpooling is highly recommended for this tournament
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Disciple on July 16, 2014, 07:28:10 PM
All players for The MAC will have a tee time.  Carpooling would be with folks on or around the same time at the same course and also to the players party Saturday night at Rosedale
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Steve the Quiz Berry on July 16, 2014, 09:20:05 PM
I was wondering how cards are drawn for this event..?
Are lower rated.., and unrated players carded together..and players with higher rating carded together? Or is it random?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: spnachio on July 17, 2014, 12:32:08 AM
I have a question for anyone who has ran a tournament or set one up. Why do holes have to be added and the course changed around. Waterworks is a well know course and a place people want to visit to play. Then they get here and it is a whole different layout.  I understand for pros and open players, but this is for an amateur championship.

I'm with you Joe.  I get tired of hearing "tournament experience" and "challenge yourself". Not calling anyone out but I've heard these things in disc golf for a while now. Sure everyone want to play their best in a tourney but a majority of ams will not compete at pro level.  I do sometimes wish tournaments would leave it easy and let's see who can beat it down the hardest. How bout input from ams not pros on what people like. Just sayin. I guess we will see how everyone shoots.  Most disc golfer are gracious and appreciate the work it takes to put on an event so i prolly sound like a dbag for the post. I think Scott runs good tourneys and DD usually lays good playa packs so even if you do get punked by a course you can have something to take home to help forget about a bad score.  Maybe I'll run the "Paris of the plains" rec open next year :P
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Anthony Puryear on July 17, 2014, 01:20:08 AM
I played the ww course tonight and I am an am player. I definitely didn't play as we'll as I should have but I enjoyed the lay out. Even though I'm not a pro I like to be challenged. Waterworks is a course I get to play maybe once a month because I live down south so it's a drive. I think having it set up in a different way evens the playing field for everyone. As an am I don't want to get beat because someone who just plays waterworks or Rosie has mastered it's layout. If I'm going to be beat I want it to be because they were the better player not just because they had home field advantage. So I think that is what is fun about the layout. Yes they would still have 15 holes that they will know better than most but at least it gives me a few holes for us to be on more level playing field. That's my thought anyway.

Thanks Scott for organizing things. I actually have 3 friends from Oklahoma who I got into the sport who will be driving up to play their first ever tournament. Can't wait for them to experience a DD tournament and some amazingKC disc golf. Regardless of whether you like the layout or not, KC is so lucky to have courses where this sort of thing is an option. Might as well take advantage.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: robm on July 17, 2014, 09:18:28 AM
I have a question for anyone who has ran a tournament or set one up. Why do holes have to be added and the course changed around. Waterworks is a well know course and a place people want to visit to play. Then they get here and it is a whole different layout.  I understand for pros and open players, but this is for an amateur championship.

I'm with you Joe.  I get tired of hearing "tournament experience" and "challenge yourself". Not calling anyone out but I've heard these things in disc golf for a while now. Sure everyone want to play their best in a tourney but a majority of ams will not compete at pro level.  I do sometimes wish tournaments would leave it easy and let's see who can beat it down the hardest. How bout input from ams not pros on what people like. Just sayin. I guess we will see how everyone shoots.  Most disc golfer are gracious and appreciate the work it takes to put on an event so i prolly sound like a dbag for the post. I think Scott runs good tourneys and DD usually lays good playa packs so even if you do get punked by a course you can have something to take home to help forget about a bad score.  Maybe I'll run the "Paris of the plains" rec open next year :P

Well at first I wasn't busting Joe's nuts.  JeffO - now I'm busting your nuts. 

Quote
How bout input from ams not pros on what people like. Just sayin.

Am Player Comment #1:
Rob Martin, PDGA # 51540, Rated 843.  Played 20 PDGA Sanctioned tournament so far.  2 of which were Majors, 2 A-Tiers.
I think the intention for the MAC is to give Ams the experience of playing in a larger tournament without paying a $100 entry fee.  Tee times for instance are never utilized for a C or B tier.  Sometimes A, but not B or C. 

With larger tournies, such as GBO, Shunga Nunga, etc., tightening up the fairways and extending them is part of the tournament experience.  Admittedly, I tend to shoot below my rating on longer holes, mandos, OB rope, etc.  However, I enjoy them more when they are utilized in a tournament.  If I want to play the normal course, I go to league or have a casual but serious round with my friends.  For tournaments, I personally want the difficulty kicked up a notch.

Am Player Comment #2:
Marc Johnson, PDGA # 64386, Currently rated 622
I agree with some of the comments here. Where as I don't personally have the tournament experience, I can get as much experience playing the same course over and over but not gain 'that' much knowledge of 'how to play'. Just in preparation for the MAC, I've started playing Rosedale and Water Works on an alternating schedule every week. Yet, I'm quickly learning it doesn't really matter with the regular course set ups, a tournament NEEDS to change the regular layouts. The whole point of playing disc golf, is to have fun, get better, and compete against your own play, as well as others.
I, for one, am excited to play new courses and set ups. I believe that's where the true reward is in playing tournaments.
Just my thoughts...
(Marc, this is not a slight on you).

JeffO - How much more Amateur do you want?  A 843 rated player and a 622 rated player saying they want tougher layouts for tournaments.

Not all tournaments are tough layouts.  Rosedale Open this year was pretty tame.  Muddy Mo last year was pretty tame.  Both those 2 tournaments included Rosedale (tame) and Water Works (tame).

This tournament, that includes Rosedale and Water Works is not tame.  If every tournament was tame, 1. How are you going to get better, and 2. (more importantly) how freakin' boring is that?

Come on guys, pony up to the challenge.  If this isn't your thing, there are other tournaments to play.  This one is about kicking up the tournament experience a few notches.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jteater on July 17, 2014, 11:13:46 AM
Joe - this is not a ball buster, just my thoughts...

I think the intention for the MAC is to give Ams the experience of playing in a larger tournament without paying a $100 entry fee.  Tee times for instance are never utilized for a C or B tier.  Sometimes A, but not B or C. 

With larger tournies, such as GBO, Shunga Nunga, etc., tightening up the fairways and extending them is part of the tournament experience.  Admittedly, I tend to shoot below my rating on longer holes, mandos, OB rope, etc.  However, I enjoy them more when they are utilized in a tournament.  If I want to play the normal course, I go to league or have a casual but serious round with my friends.  For tournaments, I personally want the difficulty kicked up a notch.

Rob, I did not think you were busting my nuts, and your comments were quite good. I asked the question hoping to get answers and I certainly did. This may be the first time on this forum somebody has changed my mind. I was trying to get an idea if most people at tournaments like it more of a challenge or it they would rather have it left alone. I also understand that it is up to the people running the tournament what they wish to do and that they probably try to make it as fun as possible for the majority.

So in agreement, we have so many courses, everyday anyone can play casual with friends, casual/serious with friend. We have leagues everynight and you can choose large leagues or smaller more homey leagues. And we have challenges, tournaments, and or doubles almost every weekend. So life is very very good.  So yes, in the future I will do a better job of finding out exactly how a tournament will be before I sign up. Like at the Wide Open I knew that Swope and Wyco would be set up long and it was excellent.

So in disagreement with some comments on here.

Joe H, who wants to play the same courses over and over.  Me, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I wanted different ones last weekend so I played a tournament in Nebraska.

Anthony P, I think having it set in different ways helps even the playing field. On my trip to Nebraska nobody was concerned about making it fair for me. I went there because I wanted to play them at their place.

Rob M, you shouldn't bust Jeff O's nuts. You know he is up for a challenge at any time. And the comments from everyone about harder layouts will make you better: everything we do in disc golf makes us better. Lets see, if I throw in a field I will get better, if I throw tight courses like RosieDU I will get better, if I play with better players and learn from them I will get better, if I putt in my garage I will get better. Adding two holes to Waterworks and making some longer, not so sure that helps.

With all that said, I can't wait for the tournament.








   
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on July 17, 2014, 11:57:48 AM
I am an AM my comments don't count?

Ok....So the course last night was pretty ok (I HATE MANDOS THOUGH and TEMP HOLES).  so I am going by the tee pad start for the holes on this, not the actual numbering from last night.

#A and #B, something has to give.  I get what is trying to be done, but the notion of playing the first hole as a prime and encouragement to go for aces, then move #1 short, and play from the parking lot to #1 long (adding in a hole to compensate for #4 to #5).  Tee from the parking area circle down the hill there, I think you get the same feeling, and you accomplish the same, EXCEPT you lose that hole #1 long that we all love.  I think that this may be the answer over adding another by #16.
2-great hole
3-UNsure why the Mando is needed, but whatever, just make sure spotters are there as you are forcing people left more in an already lost disc prone left area....silly Mando really....but I get it, you want it tighter.  Instead of a Mando, why not OB it past the tree down the honeysuckle line?  I went past the mando and anny'd out and came back essentially in the same place as if I were throwing the hyzer route.  Tightening it up on the line may be a better answer to make it tougher if that was the goal.....if it was a safety thing, it needs to be further down to impact the Mando....
4 (to middle pin #5) though I played this HORRENDOUSLY, this was a very good hole.  I really enjoyed it but absolutely hated my shot off the tee that went past 5 pad but took forever to find.
6-fine....
7-were there Mando's on this?  If so why, if not, ok, I was tired at this point.  I like this placement on the course for certain.
8-good hole, and the Mando is really driven by safety on this placement.....
9-we need to raise the ceiling here, and we need to be concerned about the "lightning tree" in the middle of the fairway, that is as a whole, not this event, that will die soon enough and be a widow maker if we don't address it.
10-sure about time for a short hole....
11-why the Mando?
12-Again, why the mando?  If it is the park safety, move it closer so you can do other shots, you really limit and force the shots on this one.
13-fine
14-Fine Mando safety, but really doesn't help much if you throw that way you throw that way...
15-Ugh....really double MANDO that you can't see from the tee....just UGH, this placement is by far one of the worst on the course, and there is NO GREEN as well, you are playing the green on the tee pad for #14, you have to double MANDO the protection, and then you can't get to it by the way you force people to throw unless you hit the 20' gap.  Our card all got 3's, you will probably not see any scoring separation on this hole for the amount of work needed.  You would be better served here to figure out a Double MANDO and use a shorter pin placement....
16-Mando is silly, but OK....
16A-You could clear out the brush across the street and tee from the lower (shorter pin placement) and make a tighter and then more open shot for an additional hole in lieu of the first shot I mentioned from the parking lot.  It would take a few hours of work but I believe that we could clear that out very easily to move ahead appropriately, and leave 8 long.  This could also be looked at for a more permanent #4 to #5 solution as well.....
17-I really liked this hole even with the Mando, but the MANDO is only to keep from going over the road, why not give the Big ARMS an option to throw over #9 and #18 to the grass....if you don't make it, punish them with a Re-Tee from the pad only if not in bounds on the drive?  I think that may create a HUGE scoring discrepancy....but as it is it is a tough hole, our card had 3 4's, and a 6....I will let you guess who got the 6..... ;D ::)

18-fine...

Overall, LONG and tough, are sure that this is an appropriate set up for AMs?  I really think that there are some tough and challenging holes.  I think that the A & B are just hokey...it is always fun to throw downhill, but why not just put it at the short placement then is what I was thinking last night after we talked Scott.

Good thoughts and some wonderful ideas for the future on larger events for certain.

Kudos for the ideas.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Douug on July 17, 2014, 12:02:40 PM
With all that said, I can't wait for the tournament.

BIRDIE ON THAT NOTE too from Steeler too.

"Thank You" to all involved in setting up the course, printing out the layouts and holding the event last night.  Luv'd playing hole "B", 4 to 5 "long",  7 to over "10", and especially 17 to 18 "on the hill." I'm gonna 4 that hole.

There isn't anything wrong playing "Safari" in a tourney. It's a challenge I luv.

Luv'd the course layout yesterday.  Keep it as it is please.  Luved the Mando's and OB.  The course is set up well enough in advance of the tourney so there isn't any reason why one can't practice before MAC, even if some of the baskets are not set.  One doesn't need a basket there to practice a drive up to the pin setting. 

I can't believe I went OB twice and MANDO twice.  That killed my score, a temporarily demoralizing 74.  But my putts were ON!!!  Right Jamie?  I'll fix the Mando's and OB this weekend.  Going back for a rematch.

Nice shooting Jamie and way to stay OB free Ted.  Sherwood, we have some "improvement" to do. ;)
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Douug on July 17, 2014, 12:06:42 PM
Uh ok.  Jack's piping in his "AM" comments.

"Uh, Jack.  I didn't hear you last night. Sound carries well @ WW." ;)

Is that an assumption you done well, despite all the Mando's and OB? I hope you did.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jamidanger on July 17, 2014, 12:14:05 PM
safety mandos are awesome - but hole B will hurt somebody and hole 12 mando could be one or two trees closer to the tee. yeah I said butt hole. don't forget to carpool and pay attention to parking etiquette for the MAC.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jayhawker737 on July 17, 2014, 12:34:04 PM
So I take it that WaterWorks is set up for the tourney and can be played at any time in that set up? Are the temp holes there and all the mando signs there?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 17, 2014, 12:35:10 PM
I will say that I love Hole #A, but not happy with Hole B.  I do think it is a safety issue especially once the parking lot gets full.  We will do our best to control that. 

Hole #3 has a Mando because I do not want people playing the big hyzer down #2's fairway.  i do think the ceiling on #3 will need cleaned as the tunnel is pretty tight.

I do love all the feedback and I have the courses set so it gives me time to tweak them prior to the event if I need too.  I think overall I got mostly positive responses about the course.  Waterworks will have spotters during the event so it should help with the flow control.

If I do change A and B, I do like the idea of the shot near 16, which then would change Hole #8 to the short which I really like as well.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 17, 2014, 12:36:12 PM
So I take it that WaterWorks is set up for the tourney and can be played at any time in that set up? Are the temp holes there and all the mando signs there?

The temp holes are not there, but the flags on the ground are.  All the Mandos are marked by orange ribbon on the trees.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jayhawker737 on July 17, 2014, 12:37:27 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on July 17, 2014, 12:54:26 PM
Nothing wrong on the #8 movement Scott, to accomplish that feeling on #1 though you may want to think about the short hole #1, and the parking to long #1 though.  #16 as I drove by it last night may need some clearing out.

On #3, I would think just making it OB straight then towards the pin, essentially where bollards used to be as an OB line is a better option, as I indicated my shot anny'd out and hyzer'd back as did another on the card, so we are still playing the fairway on #2 if that is what you are trying to avoid.

The other option would be just go real ROGUE and bring it in to the next pin placement and tighten it and OB it ala Island type and keep a tight pocket, that would force people out, and use the drop zone by the tree if you aren't on the Island from the tee.

Food for thought.  I do appreciate all the work and effort you are putting into this event. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: robm on July 17, 2014, 01:39:52 PM
(http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608044236916199284&w=300&h=366&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0)
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: robm on July 17, 2014, 10:11:09 PM
The registrations are coming in.  We are planning a one rounder on the Friday before the event (August 1st) along with Team Who Man with a Friday Clinic and Saturday they will be present with an obstacle course during the players party.
Any more info on this?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Anthony Puryear on July 18, 2014, 08:08:05 AM
Scott,
I was wondering if you have a payout table already for this event? I think this is the first time I've ever played an Am only event so I was just curious what that makes the payout structure look like and how many spots get paid. I'm in intermediate. I know that one is full already so I thought you may at least know the structure for that, or a rough estimate. Thanks!
And is rec playing trophy only or do they get paid out also?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: white mccoy on July 18, 2014, 08:27:29 AM
Nothing wrong on the #8 movement Scott, to accomplish that feeling on #1 though you may want to think about the short hole #1, and the parking to long #1 though. 


I think you will have a hard enough time finding parking for everyone without using some of the limited spaces for a tee.

Scott, I enjoyed the course on Wednesday.  No missed Mandos, no OBs, but still should have shot better.  But I had fun with the changes.

There is a few Mandos that are questionable to me, but Hey, what do I know...I'm just a pro, and I can't play in the MAC....so my voice does not matter  :'(


Only 1 last thing, and this will probably tick off half the field....but I think next year, in order to really call it the Midwest Amateur Championship....it should be strictly 1 Champion.  1 Division...no rec, no int, no age restrictions....1 Champion to rule them all.  Actually 2 champions, with the Women's Champ.

I look forward to seeing all you crazy guys chucking your plastic at the MAC.  Maybe I will help you find your disc if it goes in the woods....If it doesn't go too far in.

Good Luck
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 18, 2014, 09:01:49 AM
Currently over 240 players and spots are getting thin.  Around 20 left in Advanced, 10 left in Recreational.  2 weeks and counting!!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 18, 2014, 09:02:53 AM
The registrations are coming in.  We are planning a one rounder on the Friday before the event (August 1st) along with Team Who Man with a Friday Clinic and Saturday they will be present with an obstacle course during the players party.
Any more info on this?

It is still planned.  A flex start $10 one rounder at Rosedale Park from 10-6.  Singles, Doubles, Mixed Doubles.  Open to anyone who wants to play.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 18, 2014, 09:04:25 AM
Scott,
I was wondering if you have a payout table already for this event? I think this is the first time I've ever played an Am only event so I was just curious what that makes the payout structure look like and how many spots get paid. I'm in intermediate. I know that one is full already so I thought you may at least know the structure for that, or a rough estimate. Thanks!
And is rec playing trophy only or do they get paid out also?

As of now 40% - 45% of the MA2 INT field will receive a payout and Recreational is trophy only.  That could change, but as of today, this is where I am on it.  If it changes drastically I will post the change.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Utz on July 18, 2014, 11:30:47 AM
on Original hole 17 - the Mando needs to be moved back 1 tree. This allows a safe shot but still a challenge with risk/reward. the second shot doesnt interfere with 9's fairway or 18's  teepad.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: white mccoy on July 18, 2014, 02:18:58 PM
on Original hole 17 - the Mando needs to be moved back 1 tree. This allows a safe shot but still a challenge with risk/reward. the second shot doesnt interfere with 9's fairway or 18's  teepad.

^ I said same thing.  If you lay up down the hill by 17's short pin.  This is the best line up to 12's Peninsula basket.  And this doesn't affect hole 9 or 18.  The way it is now, the only good line up to 12's Peninsula basket is to throw it 550ft over into 13's fairway.  Moving the Mando would then make this hole a Par 4, instead of a Par 5 though. But what do I know.  I am only calling it how I would want to play it. Need more players that are playing in the MAC to speak up.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 18, 2014, 03:22:33 PM
The only reason I don't like it is because it rewards a bad shot also.  If a person throws it 100 feet and burns it into the ground, they still have the ability to save Par or birdie based on a Par4.  If people are 100 feet away from the mando and go for it, then 9 and 18 do come into play if the shot is turned over or thrown to wide.  It is only a good option if the shot lands near the shorter mando.  I personally like the shorter mando also but from a safety stance and a difficulty stance I like it where it is. 

That's my thought on why I did what I did
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: dickthediscparker on July 18, 2014, 03:24:23 PM
Your drop zone on the hole is ... interesting. Why double punish people?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 18, 2014, 03:41:37 PM
I agree the drop zone needs to be adjusted
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: KCWaldo on July 18, 2014, 03:43:43 PM
I say leave the mando where it is and leave the parking lot in bounds for 17(18).  The biggest problem I found with that hole is if you don't drive down next to the mando and remain up the hill, there is basically no line without going over into 12 or playing the lottery throwing across the parking lot through the trees.  There is essentially no line to throw through. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 18, 2014, 04:03:01 PM
I really do appreciate everyone's feedback and I will be going back out and do some re-evaluating, which is one of the reason I set it the course up already.  I can't say I will make everyone happy but I do want it to be a challenging, fun course for the event.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: The Nailerâ„¢ on July 18, 2014, 09:14:08 PM
I think it's great.  Never seen anything like it in the world.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Bitter79 on July 19, 2014, 12:01:44 AM
To be honest, and being a Rec player moving up to MA2 for this tournament, I played both courses today and though its tough I think its 100% fair. You will absolutely have to use every shot in the book, accurately and or distance wise, to come close to having a good score. To me that's the purpose of this event, to reward the best players who have the best shots on a consistent basis. I think the courses will allow those who are playing their best to score and those who are not will be punished fairly. This will me more of a mental test for most, which will mimic what the pro's go through in their rounds when playing in big tournaments. I'm looking forward to the challenge and wish everyone the best of luck come August 2nd.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: otter on July 19, 2014, 09:15:08 AM
When will the OB lines be added?    ;D :o
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 19, 2014, 06:04:23 PM
The OB Lines wont be added until the week of the event
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: discgolfman21 on July 20, 2014, 03:21:38 PM
How many openings are left in the rec positions
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 20, 2014, 05:58:46 PM

We are officially over 250 registered players.  Every division is getting close to single digits left for available players.  With 2 weeks to go, do not wait to much longer.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 23, 2014, 10:06:19 AM
MA1 - 6 spots left
MA3 - 8 spots left
MM1 - 10 spots left
MG1 - 6 spots left
FA3 - 1 spot left

All the other divisions are full
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: hberciunas on July 23, 2014, 10:48:25 AM
[quote/]
Only 1 last thing, and this will probably tick off half the field....but I think next year, in order to really call it the Midwest Amateur Championship....it should be strictly 1 Champion.  1 Division...no rec, no int, no age restrictions....1 Champion to rule them all.  Actually 2 champions, with the Women's Champ.

[/quote]

I think division competition is important. Honestly if there are none,  I'll not be playing as many in rec and intermediate will not be competitive. We already have club championship.  I do think it would be better to group players by some kind of qualifying criteria.  Use tournament ratings and/or by invite similar to am world's but pool by current year scores/ratings.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on July 23, 2014, 10:58:57 AM
RETURN THE MID NATIONALS TOURNEY.......RATINGS BASED EVENT.  This is EXACTLY the format that should be looked at Scott.  I played it, I marshaled it, it was one of the few things that the ratings worked on well in all honesty.  Levels based solely on ratings, not gender or age.  Considered a Major as well....
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: robm on July 23, 2014, 01:11:05 PM
Instead of:

"If you build it they will come"

I think it is more like:

"If you build it, others will critique it."

Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: artisan on July 23, 2014, 03:34:07 PM
Instead of:

"If you build it they will come"

I think it is more like:

"If you build it, others will critique it."

No Sh*t Rob.  I say we just show up, play and have a good time b%tches.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 24, 2014, 08:26:23 AM
Rosedale - Par 58
(All DZ are played if Mando is missed, If shot goes OB, then play from last place in bound)

1 - 495ft - Tennis Courts, Skate Park, Parking Lot (Long Left)
2 - 397ft - OB Line Left (Long Left)
3 - 304ft (Long Right)
4 - 436ft - OB Line Left (Par 4) (Long Far Right)
5 - 329ft (Long Right)
6 - 295fr - Over Fence (Long Straight)
7 - 361ft (Long)
8 - 515ft = OB Line, Play Drop Zone if shot goes OB, If shot from DZ goes OB, replay DZ. If shot goes OB from the Island, play from last place in bounds. (Par 4) (Long Island)
9 - 379ft - OB Line Left, Fence (Long Right of Stairs)
10 - 328ft - Road and over, Mando Right (Long Straight)
11 - 351ft - Road and over, Mando Left (First Long Left)
12 - 380ft - Road/Curb and Over (Long Right)
13 - 504ft - Road and over (Par 4) (Long)
14 - 301ft - Road and over (Bottom of Stairs)
15 - 363ft - Road and over/Fence (Long)
16 - 421ft - Fence (Long)
17 - 529ft - Road and over/Fence (Par 4) (long)
18 - 647ft - Road and over/Fence (par 4) (Long Practice Basket to Right)

Waterworks - Par 58
(All DZ are played if Mando is missed, If shot goes OB, then play from last place in bound)

1 - 338ft (Short Left)
1A - 268ft - Mando Left (Near Circle drive to #1 Long)
2 - 432ft - Road/Curb and over (Par 4) (Long over hill)
3 - 351ft - Fence, Mando Left (Long)
4 - 595ft - Fence, Terrapin Station Walls and In (Par 4) (To #5 medium pin)
6 - 390ft (Long)
7 - 381ft - OB Line, Mando Left (to #10 long)
8 - 531ft - Curb and over/Mando Left (Par 4) (Long)
9 - 288ft - Curb and over (Long Right)
10 - 240ft - OB Line (Short right)
11 - 309ft - OB Line (Long Left)
12 - 381ft - Curb and over/Fence/Mando Left (Long Right)
13 - 365ft - Between OB Line (Long Left)
14 - 485ft - Over wall, touching road and over/Mando Left/OB line (Long)
15 - 322ft - Over wall, touching road and over/Mando Left (x2) (Long Right)
16 - 377ft - Over wall, touching road and over (Long)
17 - 627ft - Over wall, touching road and over/Between OB Line/Mando Left (Par 4) (Long Right to #12 Penisula hole)
18 - 312ft - Curb and over (Long Left)
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: thankyoupeter on July 24, 2014, 08:44:19 AM
Rosedale - Par 58
(All DZ are played if Mando is missed, If shot goes OB, then play from last place in bound)

1 - 495ft - Tennis Courts, Skate Park, Parking Lot (Long Left)
2 - 397ft - OB Line Left (Long Left)
3 - 304ft (Long Right)
4 - 436ft - OB Line Left (Par 4) (Long Far Right)
5 - 329ft (Long Right)
6 - 295fr - Over Fence (Long Straight)
7 - 361ft (Long)
8 - 515ft = OB Line, Play Drop Zone if shot goes OB, If shot from DZ goes OB, replay DZ. If shot goes OB from the Island, play from last place in bounds. (Par 4) (Long Island)
9 - 379ft - OB Line Left, Fence (Long Right of Stairs)
10 - 328ft - Road and over, Mando Right (Long Straight)
11 - 351ft - Road and over, Mando Left (First Long Left)
12 - 380ft - Road/Curb and Over (Long Right)
13 - 504ft - Road and over (Par 4) (Long)
14 - 301ft - Road and over (Bottom of Stairs)
15 - 363ft - Road and over/Fence (Long)
16 - 421ft - Fence (Long)
17 - 529ft - Road and over/Fence (Par 4) (long)
18 - 647ft - Road and over/Fence (par 4) (Long Practice Basket to Right)

Waterworks - Par 58
(All DZ are played if Mando is missed, If shot goes OB, then play from last place in bound)

1 - 338ft (Short Left)
1A - 268ft - Mando Left (Near Circle drive to #1 Long)
2 - 432ft - Road/Curb and over (Par 4) (Long over hill)
3 - 351ft - Fence, Mando Left (Long)
4 - 595ft - Fence, Terrapin Station Walls and In (Par 4) (To #5 medium pin)
6 - 390ft (Long)
7 - 381ft - OB Line, Mando Left (to #10 long)
8 - 531ft - Curb and over/Mando Left (Par 4) (Long)
9 - 288ft - Curb and over (Long Right)
10 - 240ft - OB Line (Short right)
11 - 309ft - OB Line (Long Left)
12 - 381ft - Curb and over/Fence/Mando Left (Long Right)
13 - 365ft - Between OB Line (Long Left)
14 - 485ft - Over wall, touching road and over/Mando Left/OB line (Long)
15 - 322ft - Over wall, touching road and over/Mando Left (x2) (Long Right)
16 - 377ft - Over wall, touching road and over (Long)
17 - 627ft - Over wall, touching road and over/Between OB Line/Mando Left (Par 4) (Long Right to #12 Penisula hole)
18 - 312ft - Curb and over (Long Left)

Disappointed the layout isn't a little more challenging.   :o ;D
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 24, 2014, 10:20:25 AM
Courtesy of Tom Moore

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10491172_298749736964358_358323955463321474_n.jpg)
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: white mccoy on July 24, 2014, 11:10:28 AM
Rosedale - Par 58
(All DZ are played if Mando is missed, If shot goes OB, then play from last place in bound)

1 - 495ft - Tennis Courts, Skate Park, Parking Lot (Long Left)
2 - 397ft - OB Line Left (Long Left)
3 - 304ft (Long Right)
4 - 436ft - OB Line Left (Par 4) (Long Far Right)
5 - 329ft (Long Right)
6 - 295fr - Over Fence (Long Straight)
7 - 361ft (Long)
8 - 515ft = OB Line, Play Drop Zone if shot goes OB, If shot from DZ goes OB, replay DZ. If shot goes OB from the Island, play from last place in bounds. (Par 4) (Long Island)
9 - 379ft - OB Line Left, Fence (Long Right of Stairs)
10 - 328ft - Road and over, Mando Right (Long Straight)
11 - 351ft - Road and over, Mando Left (First Long Left)
12 - 380ft - Road/Curb and Over (Long Right)
13 - 504ft - Road and over (Par 4) (Long)
14 - 301ft - Road and over (Bottom of Stairs)
15 - 363ft - Road and over/Fence (Long)
16 - 421ft - Fence (Long)
17 - 529ft - Road and over/Fence (Par 4) (long)
18 - 647ft - Road and over/Fence (par 4) (Long Practice Basket to Right)





Just a head's up, your Par at Rosedale adds up to 59.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 24, 2014, 11:28:23 AM
What am I missing.  Par 4 on #4, #13, #17 and #18.  54 + 4 Holes - Par 58
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 24, 2014, 11:28:43 AM
A few more additions to the MAC. On Saturday we will be offering a Trilogy Challenge at Swope Park from 10-6 for those not playing or looking for more to do.


Also during the Players Party, Nomad DG will be hosting the Midwest Moonlight Doubles Championship. This will be a pick your partner doubles offering both an Open and Amateur Division for $20 per team.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jhinck2 on July 24, 2014, 11:29:49 AM
What am I missing.  Par 4 on #4, #13, #17 and #18.  54 + 4 Holes - Par 58

Missing hole 8
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 24, 2014, 12:00:28 PM
Your right, i see it now, yes Par 59
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: ptinkc on July 24, 2014, 01:01:05 PM
 We are looking for volunteers for Midwest Amateur Championship and the volunteer payout will be a great package depending on how long you can spend helping. We have several volunteers      already and this is what everyone will receive: 
 Players Party helpers- $20 store voucher/ Players Party Ticket
 Lunch Provided both Days at the courses
 1/2 day- $20 store voucher/ Players Party Ticket
 full day- $40 store voucher/ Players Party Ticket 
 15 Volunteers- Saturday and Sunday Full days $40 Store voucher and a MAC Players Pack / Players Party Ticket
 Contact Scott 920-379-0056 mobile with any questions, and to sign up or the 913-403-0710 Dynamic Discs store to sign up.
 Thanks everyone, Pete Cashen
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: otter on July 25, 2014, 09:29:34 AM
Hey DDKC, any forecast on when the OB lines will go down next week for both courses?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: otter on July 25, 2014, 09:39:30 AM
Mando ruling on #3 @WW: must the disc pass completely left of the mando tree-trunk, OR, can the disc pass through the open crook of the trunk which is still left of the furthest (right) trunk border?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 25, 2014, 03:04:59 PM
OB lines will be down on Wednesday
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Anthony Puryear on July 26, 2014, 12:34:18 AM
Will  there be dinner provided at the players party? Any details?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 26, 2014, 10:26:40 AM
As of now, Dinner is not provided but you will get a discounted coupon in your players package for Parkers Bar B Que.  You will also get a voucher for a couple drinks
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 26, 2014, 10:59:08 AM
As of 7/26/14

MA3 - 3 spots left
MM1 - 5 spots left
MG1 - 5 spots left
FA2 - 1 spot left
FA3 - 1 spot left
MJ1 - 1 spot left

All the other divisions are full
Online registration is closed, you will need to call DDKC 913-403-0710 and register over the phone if there are spots available
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Anthony Puryear on July 26, 2014, 11:11:45 PM
We had a question on Friday about the Mando on WW hole 7. Will the mando be the large tree right in the middle which will force everyone to play left through the gully? Or will the straight up the middle shot still be available?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 27, 2014, 12:05:18 AM
There is a tree with most of the bark removed, about three trees deep, still forcing you to play up the middle
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 27, 2014, 08:33:12 AM
We are just a day from entering MAC week and I am getting pretty excited. Players pack items are here, getting assembled and organized for Wednesday (First day you can pick up packs). Maps are completed and hope to have online soon (Thanks to Mike Fenton) Courses will be officially marked on Wednesday.
Tee Times will be posted on Friday
Don't forget about the Singles/Doubles 1 Rounder taking place at Rosedale on Friday, the Team Who Man Clinic at 6p on Friday and the Players Meeting at 7pm at Rosedale on Friday.
The Players party on Saturday is going to be awesome. Invite your friends and family even if they are not playing. Just the atmosphere alone will be worth it.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jayhawker737 on July 28, 2014, 01:35:10 PM
Rosedale - Par 58
(All DZ are played if Mando is missed, If shot goes OB, then play from last place in bound)

1 - 495ft - Tennis Courts, Skate Park, Parking Lot (Long Left)
2 - 397ft - OB Line Left (Long Left)
3 - 304ft (Long Right)
4 - 436ft - OB Line Left (Par 4) (Long Far Right)
5 - 329ft (Long Right)
6 - 295fr - Over Fence (Long Straight)
7 - 361ft (Long)
8 - 515ft = OB Line, Play Drop Zone if shot goes OB, If shot from DZ goes OB, replay DZ. If shot goes OB from the Island, play from last place in bounds. (Par 4) (Long Island)
9 - 379ft - OB Line Left, Fence (Long Right of Stairs)
10 - 328ft - Road and over, Mando Right (Long Straight)
11 - 351ft - Road and over, Mando Left (First Long Left)
12 - 380ft - Road/Curb and Over (Long Right)
13 - 504ft - Road and over (Par 4) (Long)
14 - 301ft - Road and over (Bottom of Stairs)
15 - 363ft - Road and over/Fence (Long)
16 - 421ft - Fence (Long)
17 - 529ft - Road and over/Fence (Par 4) (long)
18 - 647ft - Road and over/Fence (par 4) (Long Practice Basket to Right)

Waterworks - Par 58
(All DZ are played if Mando is missed, If shot goes OB, then play from last place in bound)

1 - 338ft (Short Left)
1A - 268ft - Mando Left (Near Circle drive to #1 Long)
2 - 432ft - Road/Curb and over (Par 4) (Long over hill)
3 - 351ft - Fence, Mando Left (Long)
4 - 595ft - Fence, Terrapin Station Walls and In (Par 4) (To #5 medium pin)
6 - 390ft (Long)
7 - 381ft - OB Line, Mando Left (to #10 long)
8 - 531ft - Curb and over/Mando Left (Par 4) (Long)
9 - 288ft - Curb and over (Long Right)
10 - 240ft - OB Line (Short right)
11 - 309ft - OB Line (Long Left)
12 - 381ft - Curb and over/Fence/Mando Left (Long Right)
13 - 365ft - Between OB Line (Long Left)
14 - 485ft - Over wall, touching road and over/Mando Left/OB line (Long)
15 - 322ft - Over wall, touching road and over/Mando Left (x2) (Long Right)
16 - 377ft - Over wall, touching road and over (Long)
17 - 627ft - Over wall, touching road and over/Between OB Line/Mando Left (Par 4) (Long Right to #12 Penisula hole)
18 - 312ft - Curb and over (Long Left)


So to be clear we are playing waterworks number 6 as a par 3 and not the pa 4 that's listed on the sign?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 29, 2014, 08:38:52 PM
Don't forget, players packs can start being picked up tomorrow starting at 10. DDKC will be open 10-6 and can be picked up anytime this week during that time and also on the weekend.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: otter on July 30, 2014, 05:02:23 PM
Stopped by this AM to pick up my MAC Players' Pack...all I can say is WOW!!!

 8) THANK YOU DD...!!!!! 8)
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Marc Johnson on July 30, 2014, 05:16:46 PM
Stopped by this AM to pick up my MAC Players' Pack...all I can say is WOW!!!

 8) THANK YOU DD...!!!!! 8)

I agree, Thank You! The pack was incredible. I just got done throwing Rosie and WW. The layout is amazing, incredibly challenging but beyond fun! Kudos to all who are making this weekend possible. Good luck everyone!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on July 31, 2014, 08:47:46 PM
Tee Times will be posted tomorrow around noon
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on August 01, 2014, 06:53:13 AM
Tee Times have been posted

http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/17598 (http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/17598)
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on August 01, 2014, 08:41:15 AM
I do have a few Advanced Mens spots available, if you are interested, call 913-403-0710 as soon as possible
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: kidmills on August 01, 2014, 11:08:45 AM
tee times are posted on pdga
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Bitter79 on August 02, 2014, 05:03:31 PM
Nice shootin Utz! Great Tourney so far DD! Looking forward to tomorrow! Thanks again for Danger and the guys for volunteering to spot for us hacks!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on August 02, 2014, 06:53:47 PM
Tee Times are posted

http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/17598 (http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/17598)

However for some reason, it is taking a long to load or refresh.  If it doesnt work, try
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: otter on August 02, 2014, 08:14:52 PM
Those of us in the Sunday Water Works pool have no posted tee times...yet.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on August 02, 2014, 09:07:22 PM
A glitch in the PDGA is currently not allowing all 2nd round tee times for the Midwest Amateur Championships to be posted on the PDGA website. Please refer to this link for your Sunday tee time.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16A-A6bkmfpqlwV0MAFx2hoTkykn503GgFwfqDqFkgeQ/edit?usp=sharing
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: artisan on August 02, 2014, 09:17:39 PM
the list reflects the tee time i already had for water works today. Not showing tee time for rosey tomorrow??
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on August 02, 2014, 10:39:03 PM
It is fixed
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on August 03, 2014, 07:05:26 AM
If you are having issues getting your tee time still, please call 913-403-0710 or 920-379-0056 as soon as possible
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on August 03, 2014, 08:03:09 AM
Tee Times are posted and correct on PDGA.com
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Utz on August 03, 2014, 09:32:07 AM
Nice shootin Utz! Great Tourney so far DD! Looking forward to tomorrow! Thanks again for Danger and the guys for volunteering to spot for us hacks!

ROC on. Thanks! Yes volunteers make the world go round:
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: otter on August 03, 2014, 09:36:29 AM
Any delays due to weather/lightning this AM at either course?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: kidmills on August 03, 2014, 09:48:34 AM
facebook said 30 min delay
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: kidmills on August 03, 2014, 09:49:30 AM
but i would still be there at my tee time
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on August 03, 2014, 10:58:10 AM
Waterworks is on time and Rosedale is catching up.  Make sure you are at the course for your scheduled tee time
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: 3D Billygoat on August 03, 2014, 11:49:52 AM
Checked pdga page for 2nd round tee times saturday night. Times were being updated as i checked. I kept checking back for my saturday score and 2nd round tee time.  Once mine was updated with sunday course, saturday score and 2nd round tee time, i made my plans for sunday and set my alarm.  Woke up to my alarm to head out to play and saw it was raining so i checked the pdga site for any rain delay and my tee time had been changed to over 3 hours earlier than was listed the night before!  I missed my 2nd round because of this.  I thought it was weird that i had the same tee time and in same group both days.  Golf (not disc) would have new flights based on 1st round score. I figured they just kept same flights for simplicity.  I really was looking forward to the 2nd round as i did much better than i expected in the 1st round.  I am disappointed but saturday was a lot of fun and the player's pack is great. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Utz on August 03, 2014, 06:43:41 PM
I actually shot a -2 overall and tied for forth. Some coward supposedly saw my caddie drinking, didn't decide to tell me about it and taddled to the Tournament director. I got disqualified at the discretion of Dynamic Discs. Thanks for the "family" feel.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: artisan on August 03, 2014, 07:05:22 PM
The tournament flyer didn't say anything about family feel.  I think you should be pissed at your caddie.  Rules are the same for everyone.  I am sorry to hear his poor judgement wrecked a good round.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Utz on August 03, 2014, 07:08:40 PM
Tournament flyer didn't say anything about being a dick. And who are you artisan?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: artisan on August 03, 2014, 07:14:41 PM
Carl Pledger...like I said, sorry he wrecked your round. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: kidmills on August 03, 2014, 07:45:11 PM
fyi loomis you might want to be a little more friendly when giving your instructions for the round at ww today,sounds like you got a big head for no reason
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Utz on August 03, 2014, 07:53:51 PM
I know how well I shot. That's not the problem. If you have an issue with me then say something. Don't wait til the scores and payouts have been posted and decide to talk to the TD. Dont throw out my rounds and preparations because I placed ahead of you.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Aaron on August 03, 2014, 08:06:28 PM
Utz I hope there more than one person that saw your caddy drink or some kind of proof??
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: artisan on August 03, 2014, 08:47:20 PM
I know how well I shot. That's not the problem. If you have an issue with me then say something. Don't throw out my rounds and preparations because I placed ahead of you.

do you know who told on you?  maybe you didn't place ahead of them.  Maybe they just don't like you. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: artisan on August 03, 2014, 08:49:38 PM
anyway, thanks to DD for another great tournament and congrats to all those that won, did well or had fun. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: thankyoupeter on August 03, 2014, 09:10:53 PM
Thanks to Scott Reek and DDKC for putting on a great tourney, and thanks to all the volunteer staff and spotters as well.  I'm sure running a tourney with almost 300 people at two courses with rain delays was a real challenge, but you guys did a great job creating a tournament with a professional atmosphere.  I had a great time and the players pack was great, so thanks again for all your hard work. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: stevet on August 03, 2014, 09:38:48 PM
I can't imagine how frustrated you must be Utz.  Unless your caddy was being loud or obnoxious the person who ratted on you is a tool. 

From a TD perspective they have to apply the rules consistently.  They can't take into account how much a person does for their local club, or for their local course, etc.  So when the rat confronted them about the issue they had no choice.  I am pointing this out just because it's important to understand where  to channel your frustration.   I don't think it should be directed at the great event that was put on.

Sorry again buddy and good shooting this weekend.

Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: artisan on August 03, 2014, 10:21:41 PM
What are the rules if a player misses his tee time?  Can he rejoin his card mid round after he missed that tee time?  I think this happened today.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: artisan on August 03, 2014, 10:23:32 PM
can Utz appeal his round?  if an accusation is made, is there a burden of proof?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Douug on August 03, 2014, 10:28:18 PM
fyi loomis you might want to be a little more friendly when giving your instructions for the round at ww today,sounds like you got a big head for no reason

I concur.  He talked with authority and we had to confirm it both verbally and in writing.  I've never been so "put on the spot" before the round.

An most unusual way to address all the rules and regulations.   We felt like we were in elementary school and didn't know the rules?  Really?  Come on Loomis.

Still, you "were" the Power To Be today, we had to respect you, nod our heads, "Yes Sir" and "No Sir", and sign next to our names acknowledging that we understood what was being "told" to us.

Always a first ...
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: thankyoupeter on August 03, 2014, 10:35:08 PM
What are the rules if a player misses his tee time?  Can he rejoin his card mid round after he missed that tee time?  I think this happened today.

If a player misses his tee time he can rejoin the card at any time.  However, the player will receive a score of par+4 on every hole that they miss.  Once everyone on the card has driven and is walking off the teepad, the late player cannot join the card until the next hole.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Zier on August 03, 2014, 10:35:18 PM
Utz I hope there more than one person that saw your caddy drink or some kind of proof??

I couldn't agree more Aaron. I saw his final scores posted with no disqualifications immediately after the round. I hope they found some other witnesses. I can't believe somebody would do that, it's a sport. While it is more "serious" in tournaments you should own calling somebody on the rules and do it to their face, or give a warning. It's more about courtesy than anything in this instance.

Nice shooting this weekend Utz.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jamidanger on August 04, 2014, 08:30:15 AM
I am sure the unfortunate utzident has been forwarded to the pdga disciplinary committee and greg can expect a response in the next 6 months. if his caddy remains anonymous the professional disc golf caddy association will remain in the dark. congrats to bob ward for his great rounds! also I hope that chris claring will move up to open soon.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on August 04, 2014, 08:37:53 AM
I want to take this time to thank everyone who was a part of the 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships.  Overall I think it was very successful and as always, I walked away from the event with notes that I am already looking at for the future events.  There were a lot of people who made this possible and i truly appreciate all of them.  If anyone has  suggestion on how to improve the event, please PM or email me at scott@dynamicdiscs.com, I cant make it better if i don't know that it is a problem.

This was a first for me running tee times and the flip flop format (not sure that is what it is called, but it sounds catchy) and i did like both very much, i aleady know of a few tweaks for next year to make it run even smoother.

Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Aaron on August 04, 2014, 09:45:16 AM
Utzident... That awesome.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 04, 2014, 10:08:36 AM
Tournament flyer didn't say anything about being a dick. And who are you artisan?

That's not being a dick, that is playing by the rules, you and your caddy follow the same rules.  Even if they told you your caddy was drinking, you would still be DQ'd automatically.

YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR CADDY. (PERIOD)  They can drink as an observer, as a caddy, they can't.  UTZ you have no ONE but your caddy to be mad at, seriously.

As for Loomis comments, I have already addressed them, I have never be as embarrassed about disc golf in Kansas City as I was on Sunday listening to him spew misinformation about the rules.  I have never ever in my 30+ years of playing ever heard someone go off on their own agenda with no consideration for the actual rules of play.  I know that Scott and DD have addressed it, and I talked with them about it directly.

That being said, trying to squeeze us on the course out of the rain was tough, and some errors are to be expected.  Tee times on the PDGA site can also be expected, find out your tee time from the TD, they were all correctly posted at the Players Party on Saturday night.  You didn't go?  Did someone you know go?  They posted them with google docs as well with the correct time, bottom line, information needs to be on you to know your time, or have a good idea.  It was known approximate times for all divisions, so you should have known that reading the same time with the same people wasn't correct.  It isn't the first time that has happened, and probably won't be the last.  Be sure to work with the staff, and other players to ensure you know the time.

It was a fun event in many respects, and something that I am sure they will learn and improve on as it continues to move forward.

I thank not only the staff and the helpers, but the work that was done way in advance by Scott to make it a success, even with the hiccups.  Overall, it is never easy to appease everyone, and this was clearly the case, but attempting to put on this event is something that others haven't done, and congrats and most importantly thank you!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: thankyoupeter on August 04, 2014, 10:17:15 AM

As for Loomis comments, I have already addressed them, I have never be as embarrassed about disc golf in Kansas City as I was on Sunday listening to him spew misinformation about the rules.  I have never ever in my 30+ years of playing ever heard someone go off on their own agenda with no consideration for the actual rules of play.  I know that Scott and DD have addressed it, and I talked with them about it directly.


What exactly was said here? 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 04, 2014, 10:21:32 AM
essentially he made his own rules that contradicted the some PDGA rules in a nutshell on top of belittling competitors.

Again though I feel that this was resolved very well by Scott for the future.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: eeastwood on August 04, 2014, 10:31:33 AM
No kidding.  I am intrigued.  In this day and age, didn't anyone have a smart phone recording what Loomis said? 

As for the Utz situation, that IS unfortunate.  That's too bad.  And I personally think whoever observed his caddy drinking should have notified both of them at the time of the infraction, that it was a violation and pulled the TD in at that time.  I think to wait until after the round is over, gives them the impression that you (the player) are okay with it whether you or aren't.  That is the rule and it MUST be enforced.  If you don't like the rule, then take the proper steps to get the rule changed.     
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Utz on August 04, 2014, 10:32:28 AM
That's all good Jack, but according to PDGA rules, I could have been issued a warning for caddie misconduct. If I had been drinking, or even spotted with it in my hand, it is an automatic DQ at B-tier and above tourneys.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Utz on August 04, 2014, 10:34:43 AM
What rules exactly did Loomis get incorrect? He was just going over the rules very aggressively, but he's a little weird...we all know that..
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Danny Rodriguez on August 04, 2014, 11:01:52 AM
Thank you DD for a great tourney.  I had a blast even though my score wasn't what I was hoping for. 

The only rule Loomis gave that I was unsure if it was correct was on hole 3 (because the situation was potentially dangerous, and it was slick as snot)  was to encourage people who threw down the hill on #3 to figure out where you went "OB" on the tree line and take a penalty and throw from that spot instead of re-teeing it up on the slick box or walking down the hill and risking a nasty fall.   there was a big backup and I'm sure they wanted people to stay safe and keep it moving as well.

great times.

Utz,  great tourney,  unfortunate, but like you said,  you knew you threw well and you did, so you get to take that with you.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jamidanger on August 04, 2014, 11:04:30 AM
I think free relief from dangerous lie was implied for the safety of players and taken by rec players in the rain at ww. it was tough spotting down there, and dangerous sidehills made for some messy muddy situations. also since billy nelson did not win his division he should stay an am until he does.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 04, 2014, 11:17:14 AM
That's all good Jack, but according to PDGA rules, I could have been issued a warning for caddie misconduct. If I had been drinking, or even spotted with it in my hand, it is an automatic DQ at B-tier and above tourneys.

No, it's not, it is AUTOMATIC, weed or alcohol, AUTOMATIC your caddy is an extension of you.
http://www.pdga.com/rules/competition-manual/section-3-player-code-conduct/35-carts-and-caddies (http://www.pdga.com/rules/competition-manual/section-3-player-code-conduct/35-carts-and-caddies)
C is most relevant, your caddy becomes YOU in a PDGA event.  B could qualify but C is the more pressing on this instance.


B. Players will have the option to bring a caddie or carrying device during their round of play. A player's caddie is subject to all items within the PDGA Rules of Play and the PDGA Competition Manual including all applicable dress codes.

C. Players choosing to use a caddie will be solely responsible for their caddie's conduct from the two minute warning until the players cards are turned in. Misconduct by a caddie may subject both the player and caddie to disqualification and/or suspension.
Continuing on this.....

http://www.pdga.com/rules/competition-manual/section-3-player-code-conduct/33-player-misconduct (http://www.pdga.com/rules/competition-manual/section-3-player-code-conduct/33-player-misconduct)
3.3
10 Possession of alcohol from the start of play until the player's scorecard is submitted is not allowed. Such possession shall result in immediate disqualification at PDGA events sanctioned at B-Tier or higher. The Tournament Director may, at his sole discretion, elect to issue a warning to the offending player in lieu of disqualification solely at PDGA events sanctioned at C-tier and below. If a player has been previously issued a warning for alcohol possession at the same event, all subsequent violations shall result in immediate disqualification.

As long as it is brought to the TD before the Awards have been presented, is fair game.  You don't have to drink it, you (or your CADDIE) merely have to be in possession of it during play.  This is why I leave things in the car during PDGA rounds.

What rules exactly did Loomis get incorrect? He was just going over the rules very aggressively, but he's a little weird...we all know that..

As for Loomis he made up rules against the guidelines.  The basic most simple was calling the line IB not OB. 
Out-of-bounds
http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/800-introduction/80002-definitions (http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/800-introduction/80002-definitions)
    An area designated by the Director from which a disc may not be played, and within which a stance may not be taken. The out-of-bounds line extends a plane vertically upward and downward. The out-of-bounds line is part of the out-of-bounds area.
Loomis response-"I don't care Jack that is the way we are doing it here......"-it was wrong, it isn't correct.....another example
http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/801-general/80104-courtesy (http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/801-general/80104-courtesy)
E. Littering is a courtesy violation.
Loomis stated that this was an AUTOMATIC DISQUALIFICATION, now I am not saying I don't agree with it, but that isn't a rule, you can't change rules, just like he banned "lit cigarettes only" because he was concerned about fire safety at WW on Saturday he felt that it needed to be enforced on Sunday as well.  Here is the thing, you can't unilaterally tell people something that is clearly habit forming that they can't do it when they show up.  Now if they knew heading into the Tourney it was a nonsmoking event, they could have prepared, but again, KC isn't a No-smoke park (yet) so that isn't a rule, but rather a decision that yet again Loomis decided to create out of nowhere other than his own decisions.

Those are the three most pointed, and I realize that they were all on Loomis.  This is why I protested from the start, I signed my card with the word Protest clearly on it.  You can't change rules because you like them better than others.  He wasn't the TD, he had no authority to do so, yet he acted as if he did.  This has nothing to do with the tone and demeanor that he gave these speeches in, even when he contradicted himself on other cards as I was told later in the day.

I really didn't want to go into a Loomis bash on this but it clearly upset me and I dealt with it as I saw fit.  I talked with Scott and Pete about it, I still carried it on though, because I know we are better than that in KC.  I enjoy reading Loomis' prose as most do, in fact I have paid him to write, so I enjoy it maybe more than others.  But clearly that wasn't the case that I saw and was privy to on Sunday.

Safety concerns I got and understood, even though Loomis didn't convey it well, it was very vague and subjective, HOWEVER, Pete was down there enforcing the same guidelines to all the groups, and it made sense to do so based on the weather, that wasn't the ruling issue I had issues with on Loomis, my issues were clearly his own violation of the written rule that he decided was different.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: spnachio on August 04, 2014, 11:37:30 AM
So if Loomis wasn't the TD at WW, who was? 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: thankyoupeter on August 04, 2014, 11:39:54 AM
I think free relief from dangerous lie was implied for the safety of players and taken by rec players in the rain at ww. it was tough spotting down there, and dangerous sidehills made for some messy muddy situations. also since billy nelson did not win his division he should stay an am until he does.

Ok I'm confused.  I know you can take optional relief with one penalty stroke, but I thought this had to be along the line of play, with the line of play being a straight line from your disc to the basket.  If you threw 50' down into the woods on hole 3 at WW, it seems the line of play would continue to extend back into the woods, with the exception of the open area that looks down into the KCMO water plant.  Optional relief isn't moving horizontally back into the fairway.  So here, if you threw into the woods and you didn't want to throw from your lie (or were unable to), it seems like your only option would be to re-tee throwing 3 (assuming that was where you threw down the hill from).  Am I missing something here? 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: robm on August 04, 2014, 11:59:12 AM
I think free relief from dangerous lie was implied for the safety of players and taken by rec players in the rain at ww. it was tough spotting down there, and dangerous sidehills made for some messy muddy situations. also since billy nelson did not win his division he should stay an am until he does.

Ok I'm confused.  I know you can take optional relief with one penalty stroke, but I thought this had to be along the line of play, with the line of play being a straight line from you disc to the basket.  If you threw 50' down into the woods on hole 3 at WW, it seems the line of play would continue to extend back into the woods, with the exception of the open area that looks down into the KCMO water plant.  Optional relief isn't moving horizontally back into the fairway.  So here, if you threw into the woods and you didn't want to throw from your lie (or were unable to), it seems like your only option would be to re-tee throwing 3 (assuming that was where you threw down the hill from).  Am I missing something here?

You are not missing anything.  Your interpretation is correct.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 04, 2014, 12:02:00 PM
It was a safety decision and ruled the same the entire day due to the tireless efforts of Pete Spotting down there.  You are correct in the rule interpretation, HOWEVER, this was conveyed and done the same manner so all the affected players in all the affected pools played it the same way.

SAFETY FIRST was clearly the motto on this rainy day and hence the immediate change.  It makes sense on that one.  Safety is first, it was really more of a position that created a fictional OB/optional line.  Similar to what I do at Cliff Drive on hole #12, where the player option on the hole can go to the drop zone (+1 stroke) instead of trampling down the hill for safety.  Makes sense, and speed of play improves.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Douug on August 04, 2014, 01:11:34 PM
essentially he made his own rules that contradicted the some PDGA rules in a nutshell on top of belittling competitors.

Again though I feel that this was resolved very well by Scott for the future.

Belittled is putting it mildly but I'll let it go.

Thank you Jack for handling this in a professional manner with DD and Scott.  I will disregard my email to them.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: thankyoupeter on August 04, 2014, 01:14:26 PM
It was a safety decision and ruled the same the entire day due to the tireless efforts of Pete Spotting down there.  You are correct in the rule interpretation, HOWEVER, this was conveyed and done the same manner so all the affected players in all the affected pools played it the same way.

SAFETY FIRST was clearly the motto on this rainy day and hence the immediate change.  It makes sense on that one.  Safety is first, it was really more of a position that created a fictional OB/optional line.  Similar to what I do at Cliff Drive on hole #12, where the player option on the hole can go to the drop zone (+1 stroke) instead of trampling down the hill for safety.  Makes sense, and speed of play improves.

Hmmm.  So a TD (or course coordinator) can designate a drop zone if a disc goes into an inbounds treacherous area, AND the player has the option to throw from their lie (if they can find it), or the drop zone?  A potential issue with this would seem to be the player who is determined to find their disc and play from their lie, regardless of the danger of the hill.  After 3 minutes of searching, is their disc considered lost, with the required throw from their previous lie plus one stroke?  Or can they still go to the drop zone after the 3 minutes have passed?  Or do they need to time the search and declare after 2 minutes and 59 seconds they are throwing from the drop zone (since that would be advantageous over re-teeing)? 

I have no problem taking safety into account, but I wonder if this "new" OB along the woods on hole 3 at WW was played the same way on Sunday .  For instance, if someone went 75' into the woods, they were probably happy to be throwing 3 from a meter outside of the woods.  However, if someone went 1' into the woods, did they have to option to play from their lie?  It just creates an odd situation where one player throwing might take a meter in from a fictional OB line and throw, then the next player throws from an area that was considered OB on the previous throw. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 04, 2014, 01:44:50 PM
The way it was stated during--(deleted cause it was a cheap shot)it was at the discretion of the player.  In all honesty it would boil down to a group decision on where that "wooded line" is.

As a lost disc they would have to rethrow, at 2:59 they could say I am going to throw from where it went in....normally.....however in this instance during the meeting, the 3 minute started in Loomis' mind from the time the player started to look for it, and no clock needs to be started (forgot about that comment....)  so it would again be based at the subjectivity of the player to determine the time that they actually started, not as the rules states when time is actually started by a member of the group:
http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/804-the-throw/80405-lost-disc (http://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/804-the-throw/80405-lost-disc)

A. A disc shall be declared lost if the player cannot locate it within three minutes after arriving at the spot where it was last seen. Any player in the group or an official may begin the timing of the three minutes, and must inform the group that the timing has begun. All players in the group must assist in searching for the disc. The disc shall be declared lost upon expiration of the three minutes.

Retorspect, should have done this: A director may designate a drop zone to be used for lost disc on a hole.  The TD always has that option, but given the rain and the time crunch, sometimes you do what you can to make things flow properly, which is what they did.  In no way was it a method to divert competitive play.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: KCWaldo on August 04, 2014, 01:48:40 PM
Probably would have been easier to move the mando from the right side tree to a left side tree, that way if it went down the hill the drop zone would have solved the issue.

Thanks for the tourney and all those who helped with it, I enjoyed it.   
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Steve the Quiz Berry on August 04, 2014, 03:55:46 PM
Had a blast...A big thank you to the spotters....
I just arrived in Carlsbad New Mexico..and after a short nap from the drive,  a thought came to mind.
During the instructions on second day at Water Works..The Guy telling me the rules, did not accept my nod of the head as..a yes I understood..And saying yeah, was not acceptable..I had to say ::Yes Sir:::
Other than that was a great tourney.
Courses were in outstanding shape.Great job to all those behind the scenes.
And you can nod your heads and..I'm good with that..
Congrads to all winners.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: thankyoupeter on August 04, 2014, 05:05:47 PM
I'm really curious as to why Loomis was giving the Sunday cards such a hard time.  I didn't see any of that on Saturday. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Anthony Puryear on August 04, 2014, 05:56:31 PM
^^^ I was curious of that as well. Saturday Loomis seemed to be authoritative but not demeaning. However I had three friends playing rec who were playing their first ever tournament. All three dnf'd partially due to the weather but they also communicated to me that they were extremely frustrated and offended by Loomis and his actions and it kind of ruined their round from the start and left a bitter taste in their mouth about playing future tournaments.  I will be emailing DD with their comments.

I did find it interesting though that Loomis gave us Saturday folk the same instruction about a lost disc as the rainy day instructions. One guy in my group lost his disc to the left on hole 8. It wasn't in a dangerous or unplayable area but we didn't find it. I told him the rules stated he had to re-tee but the group members argued that Loomis had said to play it from where it last been seen. So I was overruled. Not a big deal to me, but I know it was not the correct call based on the pdga rules. But it's over now. I think his main concern was more about speed of play that precision rule keeping.

Despite much of the negative comments, I really appreciate all the volunteers and workers who helped out. I felt it was run well the players pack was awesome, party was great, and overall experience for me was good. The only thing I wish was different was having intermediate division awards when their round was over instead of having to wait 3+ hours for advanced to finish. Which I am still not sure how much I won. Is there a way for me to find out? Thanks again for running a fun tournament.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Zier on August 04, 2014, 10:00:35 PM
I'm really curious as to why Loomis was giving the Sunday cards such a hard time.  I didn't see any of that on Saturday.

He did it on Saturday as well. I played with a couple out of towners both days, and they both commented on the smoking rule (should be card consensus at B tier according to them). There was also unanimous dissatisfaction from our card in how the rules were delivered. It seemed belittling having to respond to everything with a yes sir or yes.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: robm on August 04, 2014, 10:03:30 PM
Yes sir? Are you effing kidding me?!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Zier on August 05, 2014, 07:47:06 AM
Anthony, your card received instructions to play discs from where they crossed out of play? Those were not the same instructions we received on Saturday. In fact, the card in front of us had to come back and re-throw due to a lost disc/3 minute rule. We almost had one on our card as well.  We all had the understanding that, as the rules stated, you needed to come back and throw from your last established lie. I'm curious, what time did you throw on Saturday, I wonder if this was brought up and rules clarified mid day?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: thankyoupeter on August 05, 2014, 08:09:46 AM
I teed off around 11:00 and the "throw from the woods OB" was not discussed.  The importance of the 3 minute rule and the pace of play was discussed.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 05, 2014, 08:56:01 AM
Couple of things....
Loomis said things that he wasn't authorized to say.
Non-smoking clause isn't a Card consensus, it was simply a Loomis being an overactive jerk.  He had no right, the park isn't smoke free, nor does he have the power and authority to do so.  Who empowered him?  Himself, that is all, and since he acted as if he had that power very few argued it (I did, and I don't smoke, I simply said you're wrong and you can't do that-something I said quite frequently during his pontification)

Sunday had RAIN out the wazzoo, and needed to be addressed for safety.  No pools played the courses differently than the other pools, so even if you had different rules on Sunday you had the same rules as everyone in your division.

I know that DD has addressed the issue with him, and I personally feel bad that many visitors to KC had to endure this badgering of verbal abuse during what should be a fun time. 

I can't speak for DD, or Loomis, but I can speak for myself and the people that I know in Kansas City Disc Golf.  We apologize for the actions of the few that made the event less for you.

Overall that shouldn't ruin an event for anyone, for me it really did.  I though appreciated the time effort and energy displayed by DD to listen, recognize and appear to act in a sincere fashion to do what they could.  Unfortunately I was on the second to the last card so by the time I got to the park the damage was done.

Again, apologies from this guy for the behavior of a few that may not represent our best.  I personally hope that as you think about coming back to Kansas City you think about the golf action first in some respects, and then the people that you got to play with more than what a few may have done to not give you that warm welcome that we so attempt to achieve.

Kansas City has a lot of class act people, unfortunately in this instance it didn't shine through.  I know that I at times have also not been on my best, so it may be counted as a bad day, but we will work hard as a disc golf community to rebuild that trust and respect that we have worked hard to earn.

I encourage those of you with any concerns to address them with Scott directly, I know that he values that information and will use it to help formulate better ideas for the future events he runs.  Feedback positive and negative is the only way to improve.

You may have enjoyed the conversation with Loomis, I didn't.  If you did though, please don't hesitate to reach out to Scott and share your experience with him.  It will only help.

Outside of the issues on that, and of course my play.  I really enjoyed the format, the courses, the work that went into the event, and I look forward to seeing more events along these lines.

Thanks to everyone DD, KCFDC, and countless volunteers and sponsors for an event of this size, growing pains will happen.  And then the clothes will fit better next time.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Utz on August 05, 2014, 12:55:42 PM
The smoking ban was handed down from DD.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: DDKC Scott Reek on August 05, 2014, 01:05:00 PM
The smoking ban was handed down from DD.

DD had NO knowledge of the smoking rule given until well after it was being told.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jhinck2 on August 05, 2014, 01:13:14 PM
I think the majority of what is being discussed on here needs to be taken offline.  If you have an issue, discuss it with Dynamic Discs and the tournament director.  What's done is done and is in the past.  I'm sure there are appeals processes with the PDGA that can take place here if needed.  I believe the other items discussed have also been handled at this point by DD.  It is becoming a rant and we need to move on.

Thanks for putting on another event in KC.  While hiccups happen, just know that we as a whole appreciate an organization putting on competitive events for us to compete in, amateur and professional alike. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Utz on August 05, 2014, 01:19:46 PM
This is a public forum. Outside of the limited set of rules for language/personal info/etc you can post what you want. I'm just regurgitating what Loomis said to us.  Might as well ban smoking/vapor too though.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 05, 2014, 01:31:26 PM
This is a public forum. Outside of the limited set of rules for language/personal info/etc you can post what you want. I'm just regurgitating what Loomis said to us.  Might as well ban smoking/vapor too though.

Loomis made many comments that weren't directly from the TD, hence an issue I had before I threw disc one.  Also my posting here was directly aimed at him, not DD or the TD as I had candid conversations about this.

This is one issue that I had that I couldn't get over was his inability to admit error in the comments he was giving us in a most unprofessional manner.

I will say it again, I have been playing for about 35 years now, and NEVER have I felt that abused, upset and angry before I threw a disc at an event.  I knew that what he was spewing was wrong, and his effacing of the rules was just something that as a TD of multiple Worlds, TD for multiple NT's, as a former PDGA Marshal, and finally as an ambassador of disc golf in Kansas City just made me sick.  Hence my comments.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 05, 2014, 01:33:51 PM
Although i will again state....SCOTT handled it professionally, and listened, and encouraged information about the situation.  I would encourage you to talk with him about as well, as I know personally he listens and works hard to improve the experience.  He has proven that over the past 2+ years that he has worked hard to earn himself a wonderful reputation in our community.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jhinck2 on August 05, 2014, 01:37:00 PM
I understand what a public forum is and how it works.  I am certainly not validating what occurred nor do I disagree with people being upset after hearing what happened.  I just think there are better ways to handle these situations directly.   

Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 05, 2014, 02:03:55 PM
I agree, and I am guilty.  The fact remains, that we played a version of the courses that we never had, it was well planned and meticulous in so many areas, it needs to be said that a lot was done right, and the rest is going to be chalked up as a learning experience that I am confident will be repaired as they continue to improve the events and our experiences.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jhinck2 on August 05, 2014, 02:18:26 PM
I just didn't want this event thread to be full of complaints and no compliments.  Yes, there were things that went wrong that needed to be addressed; it sounds like they were.  There were also 280+ competitors coupled with a different teeing format, weather issues and course layouts that were foreign to most as you said, Jack.  That being said we all just need to be cognizant of how hard it is to put something like that on.  Good reviews are just as deserved as the bad reviews that I've read and heard so far.  Anyway, I've made my point and pretty much just echoed Jack's post.  Hooray for disc golf in KC!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: LKillian on August 05, 2014, 02:43:26 PM
I think this is all a clever governmental type distraction to shift our focus from the real story of the tourney.

That the dude who won has over 10 grand in career earnings, including multiple pro master wins this year. Shame on him. I was feeling guilty about potentially playing (with my career $50 earnings) and i suck.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Anthony Puryear on August 05, 2014, 02:51:21 PM
I'm with Lee, how is someone who is designated on the pdga classification as a professional and who has multiple wins and an large amount of cash from those wins able to play in an Am only tournament? He wasn't in my division so I'm just asking out of curiosity. Although I would be pissed if I had been beat by him. Just wondering how that works and why it was ok for him (and at least one other open masters player) to play this event.  Again, not a criticism, just asking for clarification.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: thankyoupeter on August 05, 2014, 02:52:09 PM
I think this is all a clever governmental type distraction to shift our focus from the real story of the tourney.

That the dude who won has over 10 grand in career earnings, including multiple pro master wins this year. Shame on him. I was feeling guilty about potentially playing (with my career $50 earnings) and i suck.

Yeah I can tell you there was some grumbling about that at the top of the advanced men division.  However, the bottom line is that he was eligible to play based on the current rules and shot lights out the second round, so not going to complain about someone playing within the rules. 

That being said, I would like to see the PDGA rules modified to avoid this type of action in the future, but I understand there are challenges involved. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: thankyoupeter on August 05, 2014, 02:55:47 PM
I'm with Lee, how is someone who is designated on the pdga classification as a professional and who has multiple wins and an large amount of cash from those wins able to play in an Am only tournament? He wasn't in my division so I'm just asking out of curiosity. Although I would be pissed if I had been beat by him. Just wondering how that works and why it was ok for him (and at least one other open masters player) to play this event.  Again, not a criticism, just asking for clarification.

If you're classified as a pro, but rated under 970, you can play in non-major AM events.  If you've never accepted cash or registered as a professional, you can continue to play AM regardless of your rating.  That's why there are always lots of guys who get up to 980-1000 but never take cash, play AM worlds, then turn pro. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Utz on August 05, 2014, 02:57:27 PM
Nah, since he placed above me, I'd like to take any action possible to get him removed and my finishing place bumped up.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jamidanger on August 05, 2014, 03:07:02 PM
as a pro who chose to volunteer, shame on those pros who sharked the ams -  and they should remain in the am ranks for a minimum 6 years or refuse cash for 6 years. otherwise a great tournament as usual from scott and dd. ps I have zero am wins and or any other kind of std.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: J Loveall on August 05, 2014, 03:25:03 PM
I played on Chris's card in the final round and he was just making shots.  There was nothing about his play that was unbeatable, he just got the 2's he needed by making long putts and playing conservatively when he should.  I saw him miss as many long putts as he made.  Although he plays pro and has won money over the years playing disc golf, I didn't see him as being any better than some of the AM players I know.  It was fun to watch him get excited about every good shot and made putt.  He just had a good day.  It was just another challenge.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 05, 2014, 03:29:10 PM
Claring is OLD!  ;D

Nothing prevents him from playing in the event accordingly, look at quite a few of the top players there.  Many "pros" were playing in this event, because the rules allow them to.

It raises the level of competition to a certain respect as well, playing with Claring (personally one of the better guys out there and a very good golfer) will only improve your own mental fortitude to prepare to play at the next level which is really what I think that this event is striving for.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: kidmills on August 05, 2014, 04:50:13 PM
i would love to hear loomis side of the story,loomis,loomis..............loomis
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Steve the Quiz Berry on August 05, 2014, 05:06:14 PM
 ::)   Under the conditions..pouring rain..Loomis did a pretty good job actually....The smoking ban. I was smoke free entire round, but I did see plenty of people smoking.I saw one player with a dog..thought that was against rules.Gum should be banned...no body likes stepping in gum...
i would love to hear loomis side of the story,loomis,loomis..............loomis
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Douug on August 05, 2014, 06:04:27 PM
::)   Under the conditions..pouring rain..Loomis did a pretty good job actually....The smoking ban. I was smoke free entire round, but I did see plenty of people smoking.I saw one player with a dog..thought that was against rules.Gum should be banned...no body likes stepping in gum...
i would love to hear loomis side of the story,loomis,loomis..............loomis

Please, don't start giving him some credit.  He knew exactly what he was doing.  The PDGA clearly has rules and regulations for inclement weather.  We didn't need to hear his version nor his delivery, added prose and indiscretions of other players too, added on.

An explanation is not warranted.

An apology is - to the entire disc golf community of the 2014 MAC @ Waterworks.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: thankyoupeter on August 05, 2014, 06:20:20 PM
::)   Under the conditions..pouring rain..Loomis did a pretty good job actually....The smoking ban. I was smoke free entire round, but I did see plenty of people smoking.I saw one player with a dog..thought that was against rules.Gum should be banned...no body likes stepping in gum...
i would love to hear loomis side of the story,loomis,loomis..............loomis

Please, don't start giving him some credit.  He knew exactly what he was doing.  The PDGA clearly has rules and regulations for inclement weather.  We didn't need to hear his version nor his delivery, added prose and indiscretions of other players too, added on.

An explanation is not warranted.

An apology is - to the entire disc golf community of the 2014 MAC @ Waterworks.

I don't know........

http://youtu.be/LcNwob_njTY (http://youtu.be/LcNwob_njTY)
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Zier on August 05, 2014, 08:59:15 PM
Since I did make a couple negative comments I will say that I had a blast at the MAC. This was my first tournament, and I enjoyed playing with tee times and and against people who were slightly better than me but competitive. Everybody was really great to play with and friendly, even when I was self-destructing on the back nine Sunday afternoon (worst nine holes of my life).

Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: spnachio on August 05, 2014, 11:00:06 PM
I'll give Loomis some credit. He pronounced my last name. And as far as Utz getting DQ: whoever called him on that back door is Chickensh1t.

Tournament was fun, guys I played with were cool, and I'm sure all learned a bit.

Any pros that played this are dbags
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Captklank on August 06, 2014, 08:50:46 AM
Dirtbags ! Really.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: gleauzzzinier on August 06, 2014, 05:14:41 PM
Dirtbags ! Really.
really.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: mikedopen on August 06, 2014, 07:15:19 PM
Dirtbags ! Really.
really.
Really!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jamidanger on August 06, 2014, 09:14:03 PM
survey says really
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Steve the Quiz Berry on August 06, 2014, 09:58:09 PM
 :-[  Advanced players got screwed..That Guy was a pro who won.
He should not been allowed to enter.
It doesn't make sense that he was even allowed to sign up.
Ratings were his Pro rating..
This was so wrong..what a bunch of crap.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: MK on August 07, 2014, 07:45:43 AM
So this was my first tournament...  Loomis didn't bother me at WW.  He did say to our group that lost discs were to be played as oob which confused me.  Wasn't an issue with our group.  On the other hand I saw a player throwing from oob on 17...  But in a group ahead of me.  On Sunday I kept having to correct a player's score on my card, which was more annoying than the rain.  I thought Scott and all the volunteers did a great job making this a fun first tournament experience.  I was more annoyed by other players and the shenanigans they were up than by anything Loomis said. 

Anyway thanks to Scott and DD and all the folks that worked hard to make this a good time!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Ken Franks on August 07, 2014, 08:21:15 AM
For the record, as far as Smoking, If its legal in the parks, and its not a DG Major. No TD can put a smoking ban on an event, cause "They don't like smoking".

 As I was out there spectating and getting all the spotters Subway for lunch, I overheard the progression of Loomis' speeches, as each group assented to hole 1. I kept thinking to myself, Is this a F_cking joke!!!! I didn't play and I was offended at the remark he was making to players, Before, as, and after they threw.

 Jack nailed it on the head with the "Had his own agenda" remark... "Hey, Everybody look at me, I have a little power!! I shall treat this power like 79.4% of police and abuse it!"  ;D

 If I was playing and had to listen to that "holier than thou" debauchery, as I entered my tee time. He would have been challenged and pretty much told where to go...I would light 2 cigarette in his face, Than kicked his Soda over as I walked down the fairway...
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Ken Franks on August 07, 2014, 08:24:35 AM
Don't be pissed at the Pro's that played, UNDER THE RULES.   

 Your issue is with the RULES, of the PDGA.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Captklank on August 07, 2014, 08:37:34 AM
What a bunch of cry baby's ! Learn the rules before you open your mouths and spew out a bunch of stupid !
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Captklank on August 07, 2014, 08:51:07 AM
:-[  Advanced players got screwed..That Guy was a pro who won.
He should not been allowed to enter.
It doesn't make sense that he was even allowed to sign up.
Ratings were his Pro rating..
This was so wrong..what a bunch of crap.
[/quot

Can you please enlighten us on this new ratings system  @
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jamidanger on August 07, 2014, 09:29:08 AM
maybe next year call it the Midwest Challenge, allowing lower rated pros to keep a shred of pride as they battle the up and coming ams. also there should an analysis of the ratings criteria for eligi-Billy-Tee to play the event.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Captklank on August 07, 2014, 09:42:27 AM
See ya at the RAC !
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: dickthediscparker on August 07, 2014, 09:54:30 AM
To be fair, Chris is a Pro Master. This is a far stretch from saying he is a "pro". Many Pro Masters are just Adv Men who got old enough to play for cash and not worry about young punks with good knees and big arms. Hell, I can be considered a pro, when in all honesty I'm just a decent AM, with no real division I can play in.

Fun Fact: Chris is best known for being able to chug a gallon of milk every morning before his rounds.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 07, 2014, 10:34:47 AM
Chris played within the rules, as did many of the "pro's" who competed.  So to get this straight, a 974 rated player scares you because they took cash at an event once, or don't want plastic and want to play for cash?

I get that the purists in some of you (Danger, Stiles, many of you with 4 digit PDGA #'s) agree that this shouldn't be the case.  It is though, and completely legal to do so.  So at a B-Tier the highest rated person took 18th, and the 6th highest rated person won....so chastise him for playing within the rules?

I choose to keep my am status intentionally because I can play other Majors in both divisions that way if the opportunity offers it.  I otherwise would be a pro if I could play Am Worlds and my 915 rating.....but I can play intermediate....I choose not to, and a times I get beat by recreational players.

Any given day, at this point based on the ratings, you aren't talking about super beings all over 1000, he wasn't even close to capping out.....so what do you do about ams over the 975 rating (was hoping there was one)

Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: robm on August 07, 2014, 10:59:51 AM
It comes down to it that this was a PDGA event.  Per PDGA rules, he qualified.  Looky here:

http://www.pdga.com/documents/divisions-ratings-points-factors (http://www.pdga.com/documents/divisions-ratings-points-factors)

http://www.pdga.com/files/2014%20PlayerDivisionGrid.pdf (http://www.pdga.com/files/2014%20PlayerDivisionGrid.pdf)

At the bottom of the .pdf there is a 'Pros Playing Am' division.  A Pro player with a rating less than 970 can play in Advanced in A, B, or C tier events.  They may NOT play in Am divisions for PDGA Majors (Worlds, Selinske Masters).  It does not address NT's.

There were 5 players above Chris Claring rating wise. 

I'm not sure that if I was the TD, I wouldn't have let him play (meaning I probably would have).

People are complaining about Loomis' alledged wrong interpretation of rules, but in this situation, Claring clearly was eligible to play.  I'm not defending Loomis in any way, nor am I saying Loomis had a choice if Claring played.  What I am saying is, if we are standing on a soap box complaining that we think some of the rules were not adhered to at Water Works, then we also need to stand on the same rules about which player can play in what division.  Claring was was eligible to play, so he was allowed to play.

This was not the only situation like this.  One of the individuals that tied for 1st in Recreation also tied for 1st in an Intermediate B-tier in 2013.  However, just because they won/tied in Intermediate, their rating allowed them to still compete in Recreation.  Fair, I don't know.  Legal - absolutely.  If I was the TD, I would totally allow this person to play in Rec.  Most importantly because it was legal.  Second because I view this as a situation where the person was playing above his rated division for a long time and decided for various reasons to play his actual rated division this particular time.



As info, as a Master, his rating made him ineligible for the Adv. Masters division, which is probably why he played up in the Advanced divisions along with all of the young guns.

Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jamidanger on August 07, 2014, 11:17:54 AM
ethically I would wager a player with a five digit pdga number ratfinked utz's caddy. As an aged pro, I will be happy to have a caddy for the lions den. must be swift afoot, appreciate second hand smoke and speak English fluently
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 07, 2014, 11:20:13 AM
Claring made me look at my rating a coupe of years ago when I was classified as a PRO, I made the cut, but he was watching.

Chris is a stand up guy through and through.  Did nothing wrong.  Played well!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: white mccoy on August 07, 2014, 11:23:26 AM
Chris Claring did not beat all of you guys because he is Super-human, a pro, master, accepted cash, or his rating is higher than you.  He doesn't throw farther, putt better, or tomahawk better than you.  He beat you because he is mentally better at the game than you.  Do think he was looking at the player board whining that this guy is highly rated, or this guy plays Waterworks everyday...NO fair :'(     

No

He saw an opportunity to take on some young guns, old skills, and homie golfers to make himself better by proving that he has got what it takes to still beat you....even being old and fat...and bearded (Sorry Chris).   

Quit crying and go improve your game.  I'm ashamed of all of you for not putting up a better fight.


Ps.  I have more.   Would you all be b%tching about Mike T if he would have won???

Also, I bet if you took all Adv. division B-tiers, and averaged them out....it would equal out to the winner having to shoot at least 980 golf to win.  So go practice.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Jeff O on August 07, 2014, 11:27:20 AM
It comes down to it that this was a PDGA event.  Per PDGA rules, he qualified.  Looky here:

http://www.pdga.com/documents/divisions-ratings-points-factors (http://www.pdga.com/documents/divisions-ratings-points-factors)

http://www.pdga.com/files/2014%20PlayerDivisionGrid.pdf (http://www.pdga.com/files/2014%20PlayerDivisionGrid.pdf)

At the bottom of the .pdf there is a 'Pros Playing Am' division.  A Pro player with a rating less than 970 can play in Advanced in A, B, or C tier events.  They may NOT play in Am divisions for PDGA Majors (Worlds, Selinske Masters).  It does not address NT's.

There were 5 players above Chris Claring rating wise. 

I'm not sure that if I was the TD, I wouldn't have let him play (meaning I probably would have).

People are complaining about Loomis' alledged wrong interpretation of rules, but in this situation, Claring clearly was eligible to play.  I'm not defending Loomis in any way, nor am I saying Loomis had a choice if Claring played.  What I am saying is, if we are standing on a soap box complaining that we think some of the rules were not adhered to at Water Works, then we also need to stand on the same rules about which player can play in what division.  Claring was was eligible to play, so he was allowed to play.

This was not the only situation like this.  One of the individuals that tied for 1st in Recreation also tied for 1st in an Intermediate B-tier in 2013.  However, just because they won/tied in Intermediate, their rating allowed them to still compete in Recreation.  Fair, I don't know.  Legal - absolutely.  If I was the TD, I would totally allow this person to play in Rec.  Most importantly because it was legal.  Second because I view this as a situation where the person was playing above his rated division for a long time and decided for various reasons to play his actual rated division this particular time.



As info, as a Master, his rating made him ineligible for the Adv. Masters division, which is probably why he played up in the Advanced divisions along with all of the young guns.

You should get a job with the pdga
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jamidanger on August 07, 2014, 12:34:55 PM
Mike T was allowed to play? that was wrong on the same premise, but legal I am sure. just the whole "amateur" moniker that came with this tournament needs to change, which is why I humbly submit calling this event the Midwest Challenge in the future.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Utz on August 07, 2014, 12:50:51 PM
He's also been playing since the 90's. (probably much longer, just what the PDGA has on file) To me, that does not say amateur in the least. AM needs to be redefined. Tough to do though!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 07, 2014, 01:00:56 PM
By that logic Utz, I have been playing regularly since the early 80's.......really think I am a "pro"
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: stevet on August 07, 2014, 01:03:18 PM
I had no problems with any of the pro masters playing.  I think it really makes for a interesting mashup of potential young pros with seasoned master players.  The tougher players are the soon to be pros playing AMs (>970 refused cash).  I think you just have to accept that in big AM tournaments you are going to have these players.  Bowling green has probably the biggest non-major AM tournament:

http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/16411 (http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/16411)

The advanced field is littered with these pro AM players who have refused open cash in smaller tournaments.

I expect this tournament to grow.  The sandbagging will grow right along with it.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jamidanger on August 07, 2014, 01:20:33 PM
ps : I would have loved to battle with the petticoat grands, looked like a fun group. the real issue now is prep for lions den. anybody know how to kill a thread, wait I have a blue lighter somewhere.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: quinnie on August 07, 2014, 01:56:18 PM
I am not b!^ching here - I save that for when I am behind someones back -  :-X I don't understand how a player can deny cash so he can keep his am rating?  Not trying to complain, but  I just don't understand the rule.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: dickthediscparker on August 07, 2014, 01:58:43 PM
It's his AM status, not rating. You turn CASH down and then you don't have to pay $75 a year to the PDGA and you can still play in the Am Worlds/Doubles.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 07, 2014, 02:32:43 PM
You decide if you want to be a PRO in our sport or not.  You can always play pro, you have to pay more, you can win cash, but once you accept it, you become PRO.  You then have to petition the PDGA to go back to Am Status within the guidelines (yours truly did just that) if you elect to do so.

The bottom line, it is a personal decision to make.  The rules though based on ratings and how you can play are quite specific.  As long as Loomis isn't changing them at the conversation point you can be rest assured that people will follow the guidelines.  There are other guidelines as well which didn't happen in the event this time.  You can actually have people as PRO's with ratings above the 970 that would have still been eligible to play based on the rating they had when they signed up, or the cut off date.  The most recent ratings may have elevated them past that, but they would still be eligible for the event.  That would have REALLY ruffled some feathers huh? :o

About this Lion's Den you speak of.....
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Shucky Ducky on August 07, 2014, 02:58:32 PM
I personally love this thread...Jack you crack my ass up sometimes with your spot on comments!

In the immortal words of Shane Falco:

Gentlemen. It's been an honor to share the field (thread) of battle with you.

I wish I could say something classy and inspirational, but that just wouldn't be our (my) style.

Pain heals (haters hate). Chicks dig scars (stupid people don't understand rules). Glory (B-tier wins)... lasts forever.

I added the red text for disc golfer translation...lol

Now the real question at hand...

Are you ready for some CHIEFS football???
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jhinck2 on August 07, 2014, 03:01:17 PM
The Royals are still in the race and it's August.  Chiefs football can wait four more weeks.  On that note, I agree with Danger, let's shut this thread down.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Shucky Ducky on August 07, 2014, 03:08:00 PM
I for one love the fact that the Royals are in the playoff hunt for a second year in a row! But since I'm a man of many useless talents (i.e. playing with myself and patting myself on top of my head at the same time) I feel confident that I can root for both the Chiefs and Royals for the next four weeks. lol  :P ;D
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jamidanger on August 07, 2014, 03:32:40 PM
if the royals move to Oklahoma their merchandise could stay intact by adding an 'o', and be the OKC Royals, and attract a more literate fan base. chiefs 27 bengals 24
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: LKillian on August 07, 2014, 03:38:15 PM
I say if kicking the bejezus out of that dead horse is wrong then I don't want to be right. Cuz it feels good and man does the commentary make me lol.There are many ways around the am/pro classification is our great game. You wanna be a dbag than some are gonna call you a dbag.

I would have played if I could, would I have been a bagger, probably, well maybe, ah probably not. I think I would have finished one spot ahead of steve dresser. Or one spot ahead of utz, all my caddies are degenerates.

Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: thankyoupeter on August 07, 2014, 03:55:53 PM
I say if kicking the bejezus out of that dead horse is wrong then I don't want to be right. Cuz it feels good and man does the commentary make me lol.There are many ways around the am/pro classification is our great game. You wanna be a dbag than some are gonna call you a dbag.

I would have played if I could, would I have been a bagger, probably, well maybe, ah probably not. I think I would have finished one spot ahead of steve dresser. Or one spot ahead of utz, all my caddies are degenerates.

Agreed.  I think the horse still has a bit of life left.  Better make sure it's finished off. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Mantis on August 07, 2014, 06:35:47 PM

I would have played if I could, would I have been a bagger, probably, well maybe, ah probably not. I think I would have finished one spot ahead of steve dresser. Or one spot ahead of utz, all my caddies are degenerates.
Probably I played terrible.... ;D
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Ken Franks on August 07, 2014, 08:29:46 PM
Gorilla shuffle checking in...
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: kevweiss on August 07, 2014, 09:07:58 PM
That was a fun read!...like a book!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: kevinmzane on August 08, 2014, 09:27:57 AM
If you guys are so mad about being beaten, why don't you go outside and practice rather than complain on an internet forum. It's a silly thing to be preoccupied with how someone else is playing/rated when you are perfectly capable of putting in the work to be every bit as good as you wish to be.

...and always carry a rulebook with you, or download it on your phone (and don't forget to read and understand it). This won't be the only time you are confronted with uncertainty on the course from a TD or another player.


Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jack on August 08, 2014, 09:35:56 AM
...and always carry a rulebook with you, or download it on your phone (and don't forget to read and understand it). This won't be the only time you are confronted with uncertainty on the course from a TD or another player.

ugh.....resisting..... :-X

So about the Lion's Den Open Prep day tomorrow, I am going out, are you?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: quinnie on August 08, 2014, 10:20:18 AM
...and always carry a rulebook with you, or download it on your phone (and don't forget to read and understand it). This won't be the only time you are confronted with uncertainty on the course from a TD or another player.

My rule book is reading what Jack writes on the forum.  It is also more entertaining. 
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Flying J on August 10, 2014, 09:14:33 AM
What's going on here?  Did I miss anything?
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: jamidanger on August 10, 2014, 09:41:13 AM
depends on your player rating flying j
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Flying J on August 10, 2014, 04:48:34 PM
I dropped to 972 in July but I didn't post when I was 981 in June.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Soup on August 10, 2014, 04:53:56 PM
I am sure the unfortunate utzident has been forwarded to the pdga disciplinary committee and greg can expect a response in the next 6 months. if his caddy remains anonymous the professional disc golf caddy association will remain in the dark. congrats to bob ward for his great rounds! also I hope that chris claring will move up to open soon.

Utzident.
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Timko on August 10, 2014, 08:04:09 PM
There's always next year Jose!!
Title: Re: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3
Post by: Greenwood17921 on September 18, 2014, 01:29:25 PM
hilarious.  I'd like to thank Chris Claring for taking the brunt of the hate about pros playing am.  Great event DD.