KCFDC Forum

General => General Banter => Topic started by: coops on March 12, 2013, 08:09:13 AM

Title: Masters
Post by: coops on March 12, 2013, 08:09:13 AM
This is probably a can of worms but I wanted to open up a discussion of Masters.

My question is what is the consideration for Masters aged players to play in that division? Is it even a decision or do you just expect that you will play in Masters? (I'm speaking specifically of tournaments, not leagues.) Or does the course/courses played impact any decision making?

I was thinking specifically of the local tournaments so far this year. At the Frostbreaker there were 12 players in Open and 13 in Masters. At the Rosedale Open there were 7 players in Open and 11 in Masters.

I believe Wyco to be irrelevant. That course is made for big throwers. Though many players over 40 can play very well on that course I would consider that to be a much different scenario than SMP or Rosey which have very few 'long' holes.

So, why do you play Masters on shorter courses that are largely predicated on accuracy and putting? Would you even consider playing up on courses that don't demand 400' shots or does that even matter?

And would any of this change if the added cash weren't evenly distributed between divisions. (Say, instead, that all added cash went into the Open and Pro Women's division or even just a majority.)
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: bensdadfred on March 12, 2013, 08:28:28 AM
Because I can... ;D
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: jamidanger on March 12, 2013, 08:33:33 AM
i play grandmasters because i've earned it. although i can still throw far, my putting especially detiorates with age. the shaky hands may not be visible, but the ratings decline are evident. also i wear adult diapers for rounds over 2 hours which answers your tournament reference. if you are ever skillful enough to make it to the masters divisions, you will notice the decision to move up to open is usually made on the day of the event and after a meeting with the others in your division so everyone is comfortable with possibly 'donating'.

as far as the added cash thing, money is good we want it! but with our fixed incomes, kids in college, etc. we appreciate lower entry fees, even though most TD's like to charge the same entry as open these days, enticing more masters/grands to revert to am status, and that is a shame.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: coops on March 12, 2013, 08:50:19 AM
Maybe I should clarify why I'm curious, too.

There is a certain amount of... I hesitate to say frustration because it is shy of that but there isn't a better word... for those of us playing Open because I think that most of us want to play against the best. It is hard to say that is happening all the time when, especially on these types of courses, we don't get to play against Fred, Pete, CD, Eric, etc...

And then there is the secondary concern, the money. Let's say, hypothetically, that you are a 970s rated player that has accepted cash previously and is under 40. There is only one division you would be eligible and it can appear odd that an age protected division has more cash awarded than the 'top' division.

I also want to clarify, my goal in this post is to create and open discussion about this. I'm not upset or even miffed, just maybe confused a little and interested in trying to make these tournaments the best they can be. Well, that and I've always been a proponent of increasing masters age to 50. Most of the best players that I've grown up watching have been over 40, thrown further than I can and putted like maniacs. I've never felt that there was enough skill deterioration at 40 to justify protecting that age group, especially when in Ball Golf they only get age protected at 50.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Loomis on March 12, 2013, 08:55:55 AM
A lot of the Masters players I have talked to about why they chose to play Masters over Open usually give me one of two common responses: It's not as hard to keep up with the Masters players as it is the Open players (they usually name a big name pro as their example), which is basically saying - it's a division you can feel competitive in without pushing your body too far to do so. And the other response is not as friendly but it is equally as important and motivating: It sucks playing with 18 to 25 year olds who can be pretty annoying from time-to-time. No offense annoying younger people. This isn't true of all younger people but why take the chance?

This doesn't mean that the occasional Master's aged player won't play Open. I know I will. I know Ron Convers will too, so will CD and Guthrie and Arturo and Climo, etc. It's just that on certain occasions it's nice to have a division where the body degeneration is fairly equal across the field. Cooper, you're still pretty young and your recovery time is relatively short. You have the competitive edge. Master's players will test that edge and can usually do pretty well, but the cost is higher for a Master's player that a youthful player doesn't know yet.

And, to be fair, there are just as many annoying Master's players out there (myself included). 
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: matty on March 12, 2013, 09:10:14 AM
If the masters fields are bigger...then theyre just after more money same as you.

Playing disc for money is like trying to find meaning in a pauly shore movie
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Ken Franks on March 12, 2013, 09:11:46 AM

And would any of this change if the added cash weren't evenly distributed between divisions. (Say, instead, that all added cash went into the Open and Pro Women's division or even just a majority.)

 ahh, all the added cash to Open, the good ole days!!!
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Loomis on March 12, 2013, 09:16:56 AM
wyco results from Saturday: 11 open players in the filed and first place takes $337. 12 masters players in the field and first place takes $320. That's with added cash to the tournament. Masters paid the same entry fee as Open players - $60. So, in fact, the Open field DID get the majority of the added cash though their field was smaller. Was that fair?
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: bensdadfred on March 12, 2013, 09:19:39 AM
wyco results from Saturday: 11 open players in the filed and first place takes $337. 12 masters players in the field and first place takes $320. That's with added cash to the tournament. Masters paid the same entry fee as Open players - $60. So, in fact, the Open field DID get the majority of the added cash though their field was smaller. Was that fair?


No
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Jake B on March 12, 2013, 09:34:39 AM
wyco results from Saturday: 11 open players in the filed and first place takes $337. 12 masters players in the field and first place takes $320. That's with added cash to the tournament. Masters paid the same entry fee as Open players - $60. So, in fact, the Open field DID get the majority of the added cash though their field was smaller. Was that fair?

Is it possible that not all of the 8+ open players that didn't show got their entry fee refunded?
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Ken Franks on March 12, 2013, 09:36:38 AM
they paid 5 in Masters, 4 in Open... and YES HELLA FAIR!!!!

 Add all the cash to OPEN, Here's why...

 Masters can STEP UP and play Open, but we can't step down to Play an age protected division..

 You want to play for added money, play against the wolves...

Title: Re: Masters
Post by: jamidanger on March 12, 2013, 09:38:15 AM
the coolest solution i have seen to skill/cash distribution was the japan open, where all players pay the same entry fee, and age protected divisions had a 'side' pot that cost additional.

imagine this alternative at wyco, open fee $60.00, masters entry $6.00, who'll play masters for a shot at 20 bucks?
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: coops on March 12, 2013, 10:02:57 AM
they paid 5 in Masters, 4 in Open... and YES HELLA FAIR!!!!

 Add all the cash to OPEN, Here's why...

 Masters can STEP UP and play Open, but we can't step down to Play an age protected division..

 You want to play for added money, play against the wolves...

We need a like button on here.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: bensdadfred on March 12, 2013, 10:10:51 AM
Money that goes in to one division should stay in that division. Added cash should be sought after by the TD or committee in planning stages of an event not stolen from other divisions.
I personally STEP UP to the TPads  of the course, not the division.

Title: Re: Masters
Post by: jamidanger on March 12, 2013, 10:41:42 AM
not to drift the thread too much, but the 'like' button goes to scott reek for sound and fair decision making, lightning fast results posting, presence on the course, organization and promotion of each event, and being non-controversial. too bad he's not over 40 years old to be eligible to comment on masters play!
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Loomis on March 12, 2013, 10:43:54 AM
they paid 5 in Masters, 4 in Open... and YES HELLA FAIR!!!!

 Add all the cash to OPEN, Here's why...

 Masters can STEP UP and play Open, but we can't step down to Play an age protected division..

 You want to play for added money, play against the wolves...

We need a like button on here.

So - to clarify Tank's point - all tournaments should be two divisions... Open and Am. You either pay a full OPEN fee to play against Schusterick and lose every time; or you play against Palmer and take home more plastic. Is that the idea? Every tournament formatted like the USDGC? And if that were the case, do you think anyone would play those tournaments? Nope. You have divisions to encourage people to play. If you eliminate those divisions, Tank and Cooper, you would be playing alone. Which, coincidentally, is like playing Open.

Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Loomis on March 12, 2013, 10:57:56 AM
This age protected player is going up to Rosie to play right now. Let's go.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Jake B on March 12, 2013, 10:58:30 AM
they paid 5 in Masters, 4 in Open... and YES HELLA FAIR!!!!

 Add all the cash to OPEN, Here's why...

 Masters can STEP UP and play Open, but we can't step down to Play an age protected division..

 You want to play for added money, play against the wolves...


We need a like button on here.

So - to clarify Tank's point - all tournaments should be two divisions... Open and Am. You either pay a full OPEN fee to play against Schusterick and lose every time; or you play against Palmer and take home more plastic. Is that the idea? Every tournament formatted like the USDGC? And if that were the case, do you think anyone would play those tournaments? Nope. You have divisions to encourage people to play. If you eliminate those divisions, Tank and Cooper, you would be playing alone. Which, coincidentally, is like playing Open.


Nah man, you've got it all mixed up. Age restricted divisions are dandy.
But pay out the added cash to the division that takes the biggest risk and pays the most to play... OPEN.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Loomis on March 12, 2013, 11:00:34 AM
Masters pays just as much as Open to play. And the players in Masters are taking a bigger risk than the Open players. We are up for the challenge. Unless you Open players think you can take down Arturo on a consistent basis.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: dickthediscparker on March 12, 2013, 11:05:00 AM
Uhmm.. This logic isn't logical. I think if Fred thought Masters was tougher he would stay in OPEN. You have far fewer risks in the Masters field... Other than possibly pulling a muscle in your back or losing your glasses... or the battery in your hearing aide going out.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Jake B on March 12, 2013, 11:07:34 AM
Masters pays just as much as Open to play. And the players in Masters are taking a bigger risk than the Open players. We are up for the challenge. Unless you Open players think you can take down Arturo on a consistent basis.

LOL!

Sorry, but Arturo makes life as a disc golfer more difficult, regardless which division he plays!

2013 GBO
OPEN - $155
Pro Masters - $105

Who pays more?
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Loomis on March 12, 2013, 11:11:59 AM
At GBO the pay out will reflect that difference.

Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Ken Franks on March 12, 2013, 11:15:28 AM
noboDIEs saying DON'T have 4213 divisions to make every feel that warm fuzzy feeling, we're talking about added cash!!!!

 Great post Dick!!!!!
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: otter on March 12, 2013, 11:33:35 AM
Give sponsors the option of directing their donations toward their own optimal demographic as far as age-protected divisions go.  Or is this the norm already?

Title: Re: Masters
Post by: coops on March 12, 2013, 11:39:09 AM
What if masters were only offered at A-tiers or above? I could get behind that.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Tom on March 12, 2013, 11:53:30 AM
Money
Get away
You get a good job with good pay and you're okay
Money
It's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream
Think I'll buy me a football team

Money
Well, get back
I'm all right Jack
Keep your hands off of my stack
Money
It's a hit
Don't give me that do goody good bullsh1t
I'm in the high-fidelity first class travelling set
I think I need a Lear jet
Money
It's a crime
Share it fairly
But don't take a slice of my pie
Money
So they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a raise
It's no surprise that they're giving none away

"HuHuh! I was in the right!"
"Yes, absolutely in the right!"
"I certainly was in the right!"
"You was definitely in the right. That geezer was cruising for a bruising!"
"Yeah!"
"Why does anyone do anything?"
"I don't know, I was really drunk at the time!"
"I was just telling him, he couldn't get into number 2. He was asking why he wasn't coming up on freely, after I was yelling and screaming and telling him why he wasn't coming up on freely. It came as a heavy blow, but we sorted the matter out"
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: bensdadfred on March 12, 2013, 12:01:54 PM
Added Cash should go to the Open division unless otherwise specified by the donor. An example would be the year KC won 15 Grundy @ USDGC-10 Grundy was specified to go to the winner only.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: eeastwood on March 12, 2013, 12:04:54 PM
I played Masters the last two times because I can (like Fred).  I wanted to experience something different and see what it was like.  By the way, it is way different than playing Advanced.  I'm sure playing Open will be another completely different experience too.  I'm planning on playing several different divisions this year.  I will play some Masters, a little Advanced (GBO and KCWO), Advanced Masters (Worlds), and some Open.  One nice thing about playing in the Masters division is that I'm not constantly out driven by 100 ft.  I have decent distance on my drives, but I am frequently the shorty off the tee in Advanced.  I make up for it with good upshots and at times good putting.   What I found in Masters division is that most of players, play a similar game to me (except with more rollers).  As as side note, I think added cash should go to Open division.     
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: jamidanger on March 12, 2013, 12:08:09 PM


Posts: 485









Re: Masters

« Reply #25 on: Today at 11:33:35 AM »

Quote


Give sponsors the option of directing their donations toward their own optimal demographic as far as age-protected divisions go.  Or is this the norm already?

pretty normal practice, if it is not earmarked for a division, otherwise it's up to the TD. if the entry fee is lower for age protected division, then the added cash should be lower, but if the entry fee is equal, so should be the added cash. grandmasters don't worry about open payouts very often, but we are aware of them.
and those damn batteries are why i don't wear a hearing aid.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: The Bird Father on March 12, 2013, 12:13:47 PM
I played Masters the last two times because I can (like Fred).  I wanted to experience something different and see what it was like.  By the way, it is way different than playing Advanced.  I'm sure playing Open will be another completely different experience too.  I'm planning on playing several different divisions this year.  I will play some Masters, a little Advanced (GBO and KCWO), Advanced Masters (Worlds), and some Open.  One nice thing about playing in the Masters division is that I'm not constantly out driven by 100 ft.  I have decent distance on my drives, but I am frequently the shorty off the tee in Advanced.  I make up for it with good upshots and at times good putting.   What I found in Masters division is that most of players, play a similar game to me (except with more rollers).  As as side note, I think added cash should go to Open division.   

So you turned down the $220 at WyCo?  If so...WOW!  If not...then shouldn't ADV be off your plate now?

Not picking, just asking....but I do have Palmers number if you would like to discuss the benefits of bagging.!   ;D
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: phisherman_77 on March 12, 2013, 12:38:31 PM
You have to actually play golf to sandbag, and I haven't been holding up that end of the bargain lately.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Utz on March 12, 2013, 02:35:35 PM
Quote
also i wear adult diapers for rounds over 2 hours which answers your tournament reference.

I thought you had the soggy bottom waddle going on, last Saturday.

Title: Re: Masters
Post by: eeastwood on March 12, 2013, 04:09:53 PM
If not...then shouldn't ADV be off your plate now? 

I'm still going to play AM in a few large tourneys until Am Worlds.  Some due to expense.  I mean GBO is almost double between Advanced and Open ($80 vs. $155) and KCWO is ($88 vs. $170) plus there will be some serious competition at those A-tiers.   
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: jack on March 12, 2013, 04:22:23 PM
It is up to the TD on added cash, except where the PDGA dictates it is so.

Typically we try to balance it out percentage wise when I run events.

As for the true reason Cooper, its more fun to play Masters.

Danger is right, the one division and then if you want in a Side Bet option for age protected is a good way to go.

As for age 50, son, seriously, you weren't here for the revolution when it went from 35 to 40.  There are people that left Disc Golf when that happened that still haven't returned to play.

Playing with people who have a common interest and conversation pieces is something that one can enjoy.  It is not easy to carry conversations about life experiences with people that haven't experienced life.  Also their Frame of Reference is off.  Not everyone remembers what Antenna TV was, or how the remote control used to be the youngest in the family to get up and turn the knob, and how they always broke, and you had your vice grips on there to change channels to one of the 4 you may have been lucky to get.

That matters especially at events when there is so much down time.  Also personally, many pro's and Adv Men take the game a little too seriously.  I get it, and for that I understand, but there are only a few places where the need to win exceeds common respect and courtesy, and it gets thrown out from time to time too often at events.  So play with people that have a similar interest, a similar life experience, and age protected to ensure that they are better survived during the round. 

Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Loomis on March 12, 2013, 04:22:41 PM
And for the record, I'm playing OPEN at the European Open this year. Cause I ain't no sissy.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Jake B on March 12, 2013, 04:45:25 PM


 GBO  ($80 vs. $155) and KCWO is ($88 vs. $170) 

This is CRAZY!!

How did the prices for open go up so much this year, while every other division seems to stay near the same?
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: coops on March 12, 2013, 05:13:18 PM


 GBO  ($80 vs. $155) and KCWO is ($88 vs. $170) 

This is CRAZY!!

How did the prices for open go up so much this year, while every other division seems to stay near the same?

Yeah, this is a lot of money to play some disc!
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: coops on March 12, 2013, 05:20:15 PM

As for age 50, son, seriously, you weren't here for the revolution when it went from 35 to 40.  There are people that left Disc Golf when that happened that still haven't returned to play.

Playing with people who have a common interest and conversation pieces is something that one can enjoy.  It is not easy to carry conversations about life experiences with people that haven't experienced life.  Also their Frame of Reference is off.  Not everyone remembers what Antenna TV was, or how the remote control used to be the youngest in the family to get up and turn the knob, and how they always broke, and you had your vice grips on there to change channels to one of the 4 you may have been lucky to get.


On your first point: No I wasn't here, but just because people got pissed off and left doesn't mean I'm wrong. People will always find reasons to be upset about one thing or another. I stand by the point that, in most tournaments and on most courses, players aged over 40 but under 50 aren't at a serious competitive disadvantage. Granted, at the very highest level, they would be. But heck, at the very highest level it doesn't matter how old you are, you could still be at a huge disadvantage because those guys are freaking good!

And on your second point: I reject the notion that length of time lived equates to living and experience. Yes, there are many immature players in the 18-25 range, but there are just as many immature players in the 40+ range. Just because someone has never experience the wonder of Hogan's Heroes or doesn't know about Pong or the Iran contra affair doesn't mean you can't have common experiences. And, if you really can't converse with people without those similar memories, maybe it would be a good thing to get you out of you comfort zone.

Beyond that, if you want to talk about old TV or what it was like when you had to walk 5 miles to school, uphill both ways, maybe you should seek out your contemporaries in a casual round and not in competitive play.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: spnachio on March 12, 2013, 05:25:51 PM
I wear straight bill hats and sag my jeans, but also remember thursday night cosby show and last episode of mash.  I'll be masters age in 2 years and cant decide what to do.  If Im good enough at that time, I would base my choice on price. .02 ;)
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Loomis on March 12, 2013, 06:08:52 PM

As for age 50, son, seriously, you weren't here for the revolution when it went from 35 to 40.  There are people that left Disc Golf when that happened that still haven't returned to play.

Playing with people who have a common interest and conversation pieces is something that one can enjoy.  It is not easy to carry conversations about life experiences with people that haven't experienced life.  Also their Frame of Reference is off.  Not everyone remembers what Antenna TV was, or how the remote control used to be the youngest in the family to get up and turn the knob, and how they always broke, and you had your vice grips on there to change channels to one of the 4 you may have been lucky to get.


On your first point: No I wasn't here, but just because people got pissed off and left doesn't mean I'm wrong. People will always find reasons to be upset about one thing or another. I stand by the point that, in most tournaments and on most courses, players aged over 40 but under 50 aren't at a serious competitive disadvantage. Granted, at the very highest level, they would be. But heck, at the very highest level it doesn't matter how old you are, you could still be at a huge disadvantage because those guys are freaking good!

And on your second point: I reject the notion that length of time lived equates to living and experience. Yes, there are many immature players in the 18-25 range, but there are just as many immature players in the 40+ range. Just because someone has never experience the wonder of Hogan's Heroes or doesn't know about Pong or the Iran contra affair doesn't mean you can't have common experiences. And, if you really can't converse with people without those similar memories, maybe it would be a good thing to get you out of you comfort zone.

Beyond that, if you want to talk about old TV or what it was like when you had to walk 5 miles to school, uphill both ways, maybe you should seek out your contemporaries in a casual round and not in competitive play.

Cooper, it isn't that we think the conversation suffers because kiddos haven't seen Hogan's Heroes; we think it suffers because of the kiddos like to drone on and on about American Idol or Jersey Shore. It's not that they don't know what WE are saying that bothers us, it's that WE don't want to hear what THEY are saying. As you get closer to forty you will feel this more and more. Now this assessment isn't true for all kiddos, but the odds are greater the closer to 20 you get - thus the desire for an age protected division. And as far as coming out of a comfort zone to play... this is disc golf, it's all about comfort zones. That's why most people are here. Leagues and casual play are the places you "challenge" yourself against greater opponents. In a tournament where I'm paying over $100 bucks to play, plus another $100 for room and board, etc. I don't think I want to "mix things up" just to be uncomfortable.

I play tournaments for various reasons and in a smaller, cheaper one day tournament I might be willing to mix things up, but not every time. And certainly not when I have the choice of playing in a division I know I will enjoy both the company and the competition. What's my incentive for playing Open? I just spent the last five years playing in Advanced against mostly 20 year olds or (Dick Parkers who have played Am for thirty five years) and I proved to myself that I was ready to move up. I turned Pro and I played against Ken Climo, Barry Schultz, Phil Arthur, Jon Baldwin, Ron Convers, Pat Brown and Jon E McCray at Worlds last year. None of them are slouches. They are enough of a challenge that I don't need to play Open. Locally I have a lot of talented Masters players to challenge myself against. When I think I'm the most dominate Masters player in our area, then I might consider playing Open. I'm not the best masters player so I think I have enough to work on. And had Wyco only had two or three Masters players signed up, I would have played Open.

Cooper, you skipped most of your AM career, so did Tank. You both sort of jumped into the fire. I applaud you both. You're both good players. But not everyone can do that AND not everyone wants to.

As far as who gets the money. If I pay the same amount as the Open field to play in my division, I want the same consideration given to my division. And if there is ADDED CASH, well, as I've said before tournaments should have an announced PRIZE for first place so that everyone who signs up knows what they are gunning for. If the tournament said, "First place is $1200" then I think you would get a better turn out for the event, better competition and less complaining about pay out. I think the idea of pay out being compared to the size of the field is silly. It's done nothing to further the sport at all. First, Second and Third should have fixed prizes and the rest of the field can be adjusted accordingly if necessary.

Title: Re: Masters
Post by: robm on March 12, 2013, 06:21:01 PM
I'm 43 next month and I do love Hogan's Heroes.  I wish there was an Intermediate Masters.  I would be all over that.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Ken Franks on March 12, 2013, 06:37:19 PM
I love talking about Maturity with a 40+ year old student and JACK LOWE....

 Does anyone else find this hilarious??????


 
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Ken Franks on March 12, 2013, 06:37:55 PM
I love talking about Maturity with a 40+ year old student and JACK LOWE....

 Does anyone else find this hilarious??????

 BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Ken Franks on March 12, 2013, 06:38:25 PM
I'm just pickin' I love you both!!!!!!!

 ;D
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Loomis on March 12, 2013, 06:52:44 PM
I'm assuming you are making reference to me. So that would be FORMER student. OR "Graduate" as they like to say in the elite private clubs around town.

And who still says "burn"... other than a 37 year old career house guest?
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: coops on March 12, 2013, 06:57:53 PM
Loomis, your point that there are a lot of local, talented, masters players is exactly my point. I, too, want the chance to get to play against you guys but you've sequestered yourselves in a division to which I am not eligible. I think that for KC it would be a great thing if, especially at tournaments conducive to masters players competing at the same level, everyone clamored to compete equally and in the same division.

And most 'young' players already annoy the piss out of me, but if I can't overcome the simple mental challenge of ignoring another player I probably have no place in competitive golf.

Also, comparisons to Worlds and A-Tiers and the like are irrelevant, I'm talking about smaller B and C-Tier events.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Loomis on March 12, 2013, 07:03:42 PM
You want the Masters to play in Open then post a tournament flyer like this, "Open division. 1000 bucks for 1st. 650 for second. 350 for third. And naked pictures of Erik Kolkmeier for everyone else." That should bring almost all of them into the Open. Well, the ones you want to play against anyway.

Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Ken Franks on March 12, 2013, 07:49:39 PM

And who still says "burn"... other than a 37 year old career house guest?

 a 37 yr old that pays half the rent, that's who!!!
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: coops on March 12, 2013, 07:58:53 PM
This discussion has been awesome.

Let's try for even more ad hominem please.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: phisherman_77 on March 12, 2013, 08:04:50 PM
This discussion has been awesome.

Let's try for even more ad hominem please.

You have to admit, it's funnier that way.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Ken Franks on March 12, 2013, 08:07:10 PM
This discussion has been awesome.

Let's try for even more ad hominem please.

You have to admit, it's funnier that way.

 agree....
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: coops on March 12, 2013, 08:15:20 PM
This discussion has been awesome.

Let's try for even more ad hominem please.

You have to admit, it's funnier that way.

I do agree, that is why I said it. I guess it could have come across with a 'tone' but I wholeheartedly meant it.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Tom on March 12, 2013, 08:55:17 PM
Col. Hogan was played by Bob Crane. While on tour for his play Beginner's Luck in June 1978, Crane was found bludgeoned to death in his Scottsdale apartment, a murder that remains officially unsolved.... :(

Personally I liked Gilligans Island more. Marie Ann's Cocunut creme pie.....yummmmmm.  ;D



Title: Re: Masters
Post by: bensdadfred on March 12, 2013, 09:12:04 PM
Coop, it's not that bad...I had to watch Otto, Todd, Bruce, CD, etc move on to Masters and watch WHO MAN vanish into thin air...adapt and overcome & don't sweat the small stuff. Oh yeah and don't forget about Mike Dopen...smooth putter.. 8)   and Beckett move to Florida..... The list goes on
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: matty on March 12, 2013, 11:22:55 PM
do you guys remember that movie Houseguest? freaking sinbad and phil hartman killed it...not to mention squints is in it.

"i like my balls clean...so you can feel every dimple.."
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Loomis on March 13, 2013, 12:18:39 AM
Bob Crane was murdered less than a quarter mile north of where they hold The Memorial. If you walk up the park to next major bridge crossing, it's on the Northwest Corner.

If you travel down THAT road two more miles, you will see the famous Circle K from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.

Turn north and go to CamelBack rd and you will be standing in front of the house used in Raising Arizona where the kidnapping took place.

For those of you who remember, four miles south of that house is spot where they filmed Used Cars.

Fountain Hills is where the crazy Sheriff Joe Arapio lives. At present, the high school that players use to warm up is where Sheriff Joe is teaching citizens how to combat a gunman.

Title: Re: Masters
Post by: otter on March 13, 2013, 08:24:53 AM
You mean that Circle K isn't in San Dimas?  Bogus!!  Most egregious, too.  :o
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: jack on March 13, 2013, 09:55:41 AM
I love talking about Maturity with a 40+ year old student and JACK LOWE....

 Does anyone else find this hilarious??????

Who writes these posts?
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: jack on March 13, 2013, 09:56:43 AM
I love talking about Maturity with a 40+ year old student and JACK LOWE....

 Does anyone else find this hilarious??????

 BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And then you need to comment on your own post?  Wow......ok, don't you have travel plans or something?
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: jack on March 13, 2013, 09:57:35 AM
And who still says "burn"... other than a 37 year old career house guest?

Oh no he di'nt.....
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: jack on March 13, 2013, 10:00:51 AM
For those of you who remember, four miles south of that house is spot where they filmed Used Cars.

One of the best movies of all time....seriously just a freaking hoot....Only Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder films were that funny at the time or Mel Brooks.....
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Mike Hyzer on March 13, 2013, 10:37:30 AM
For those of you who remember, four miles south of that house is spot where they filmed Used Cars.

One of the best movies of all time....seriously just a freaking hoot....Only Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder films were that funny at the time or Mel Brooks.....

The Sheriff's near!
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: andyportwood on March 13, 2013, 11:28:14 AM
For those of you who remember, four miles south of that house is spot where they filmed Used Cars.

One of the best movies of all time....seriously just a freaking hoot....Only Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder films were that funny at the time or Mel Brooks.....

The Sheriff's near!

Fuzzy Wuzzy was a woman??!
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Scott A Reek on March 13, 2013, 12:27:23 PM
Just from my point of view when organizing and running an event, i like to treat all of the cash winning divisions the same, which is why they have the same entry fee and the added cash is distributed proportionally through those divisions.  I never subtract added cash from the entry fees, I either raise the money from fundraising or a sponsor or I bite the cost. 

I have played open, I am close to masters age and I have been running events for years and have heard many opinions about who should get the bulk of the money and what things should cost, but again by making my events as even as possible, it is clear what I am doing and there are no surprises.

I always say that I think you should play the division that you enjoy to play (within the requirements).  I in all honestly am looking forward to playing masters, mainly because from my observations, masters divisions do not look to be as stressful and they seem to have more fun with camaraderie.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: jack on March 13, 2013, 12:30:53 PM
I always say that I think you should play the division that you enjoy to play (within the requirements).  I in all honestly am looking forward to playing masters, mainly because from my observations, masters divisions do not look to be as stressful and they seem to have more fun with camaraderie.

Here HEAR!
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Tom on March 13, 2013, 12:39:56 PM
I usually show up at tournaments, and if there are red haired people in a divvision, I play in another division, or just leave. It's the whole clown-carrot top paranoia thing that freaks me out.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: jamidanger on March 13, 2013, 12:45:00 PM
i can honestly foresee someone who will never play amgrands, unless he too is chemically castrated.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: matty on March 13, 2013, 12:46:40 PM
When there was no fowl we ate crawdad
when there was no crawdad we ate sand

you ate sand?!
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: jack on March 13, 2013, 12:47:29 PM
I usually show up at tournaments, and if there are red haired people in a divvision, I play in another division, or just leave. It's the whole clown-carrot top paranoia thing that freaks me out.

Whew, oh I hate it when that happens....... I know what you mean....
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: coops on March 13, 2013, 02:21:44 PM
Just from my point of view when organizing and running an event, i like to treat all of the cash winning divisions the same, which is why they have the same entry fee and the added cash is distributed proportionally through those divisions.  I never subtract added cash from the entry fees, I either raise the money from fundraising or a sponsor or I bite the cost. 

I have played open, I am close to masters age and I have been running events for years and have heard many opinions about who should get the bulk of the money and what things should cost, but again by making my events as even as possible, it is clear what I am doing and there are no surprises.

I always say that I think you should play the division that you enjoy to play (within the requirements).  I in all honestly am looking forward to playing masters, mainly because from my observations, masters divisions do not look to be as stressful and they seem to have more fun with camaraderie.

To be clear too, Scott, this discussion was never meant to be an indictment of of they way you guys run your events. I think they're great and want to support them by playing as many of them as possible. This was merely supposed to be a discussion of what I view as some of the systemic flaws inherent to our current structure.

But I wouldn't mind if you just put all the added cash in Open. :)
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: otter on March 13, 2013, 03:54:06 PM
When there was no fowl we ate crawdad
when there was no crawdad we ate sand

you ate sand?!

OK then.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Scott A Reek on March 13, 2013, 03:58:13 PM
Just from my point of view when organizing and running an event, i like to treat all of the cash winning divisions the same, which is why they have the same entry fee and the added cash is distributed proportionally through those divisions.  I never subtract added cash from the entry fees, I either raise the money from fundraising or a sponsor or I bite the cost. 

I have played open, I am close to masters age and I have been running events for years and have heard many opinions about who should get the bulk of the money and what things should cost, but again by making my events as even as possible, it is clear what I am doing and there are no surprises.

I always say that I think you should play the division that you enjoy to play (within the requirements).  I in all honestly am looking forward to playing masters, mainly because from my observations, masters divisions do not look to be as stressful and they seem to have more fun with camaraderie.

To be clear too, Scott, this discussion was never meant to be an indictment of of they way you guys run your events. I think they're great and want to support them by playing as many of them as possible. This was merely supposed to be a discussion of what I view as some of the systemic flaws inherent to our current structure.

But I wouldn't mind if you just put all the added cash in Open. :)

Coop,

I never took it as aimed at me, but since my name was brought up and I run a good amount of the events in the area, I just wanted players to know from a TD standpoint.
Title: Re: Masters
Post by: Bitter79 on March 14, 2013, 11:18:23 PM
after reading most of the posts, don't some of you think that when the popularity of the sport grows, then so will the amount of money in each division? For instance in Ball Golf the pro's pay around 20K to play in each tourney (minus the "championship events"), but the pay outs are far more than the total entry fee. Sponsorships and marketing will create the void of "unfairly" seen payouts thus making the other levels of play (buy.com tour, seniors tour, hooters tour) have higher pay outs as well. Tom Watson can still ball at age 60, but prefers his partners to be of the same understanding, not some Ricky Fowler stright brimmed hat wearing kid hitting (or throwing) it passed him 100 yards (or feet) while jamming out to Beiber on his Beats headphones. Now not to say that young Ricky wouldnt respect Mr. Watson and appreciate playing with him, but hopefully my broken explanation is understood. I think that the Open division will soon be expensive to play in thus forcing players that are not sponsored or rich to play in advanced men's or if eligible into the masters division, BUT i also think when this happens that the money for the other divisions will grow as well because there has to be a way to prove who can and or should be in the Open division. Anything beyond that I think is a personal choice. If you dislike Gen Y'ers then you will probably play in the Masters Division, but if your main goal is money and fame then you will play in the Open division.