KCFDC Forum

KCFDC Courses => Water Works => Topic started by: Utz on April 18, 2013, 02:53:43 AM

Title: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: Utz on April 18, 2013, 02:53:43 AM
Looks like its going to be a sloppy one tomorrow with all the rain we've seen. If the storm is howling, and we see thunder and hear lightning, we'll have to call it off. Otherwise, we wont be pulling any Cliff-Drivery here; I'll be at Water Works at 5:30. It will be a game time decision. If you have any doubt about coming out PM me, or call me. both choices will reach me on my cell.

 I-35 N. bound before the downtown loop currently sucks. Keep that in mind as you travel into the Northland from any South/West location

Here are the stats through two weeks:
2013 Water Works Master Stats (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjGMDUsWBd35dEpoSzNYU3ZUNk0zRkZ4MVlpTWIwUXc&usp=sharing)

Updated financials means the WW ace fund is at $690! For anyone who didnt get KC Kash on 4/4 or 4/11, I will have it for you tomorrow, or the next time I see you :)

Cheers~

Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: jack on April 18, 2013, 10:22:07 AM
I agree....but then I don't mind get lambasted about it personally, and being called out for trying to do the "right" thing.

It is a cold a ugly day out there today, tomorrow will be sunny and Saturday will be sunnier.....go spend time with those you like indoors today...
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: Utz on April 18, 2013, 11:39:31 AM
Erosion still happens even if 6-16 people play league tonight. If we never played when its wet, when would we play? It's game on. I've never heard of league getting called, just because its "too wet"

In all seriousness, how would a few of us out there playing contribute to the erosion, any more than on a normal day??
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: jhinck2 on April 18, 2013, 11:44:00 AM
Utz, picture this...hole 6. Your behind a tree. You need to throw a forehand but your foot slips on release. INSTANT erosion
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: Utz on April 18, 2013, 11:54:58 AM
meh.. I guess. Well what about the golfers who throw rollers on dry days. they're leaving an evil little trail of erosion with every foot of roller distance. Plus I think the erosion around the tee pad and pin is the real issue here.

My point is, if the erosion is in such a danger situation that we cant have a league night because of saturated wetness, we need to find an actual long term solution. Fortifying pins and greens, moving holes, redesigning holes.. I don't know though, I'm not the pro here like a Jackie Blowe or Tracy Stalker  ::)

Plus if Water Works washed away tomorrow, how would you feel knowing you never got to say goodbye to her one last time tonight?? eh?
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: Ken Franks on April 18, 2013, 01:03:28 PM
I definitely like to see the love by Tracy and Lack for our beloved course, but I may have to go and see if I can get that 345 packer...
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: coops on April 18, 2013, 07:37:32 PM
My point is, if the erosion is in such a danger situation that we cant have a league night because of saturated wetness, we need to find an actual long term solution. Fortifying pins and greens, moving holes, redesigning holes.. I don't know though, I'm not the pro here like a Jackie Blowe or Tracy Stalker  ::)

We need to get all Charlotte on that course. Let's put a basket 30 feet in the air surrounded by a croc cage. Let's elevate 1 long pin! Imagine putting on that sucker!

But in all seriousness, erosion is a huge issue in Charlotte and they have created some wonderful retaining walls that make the greens interesting as well as solving that problem.
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: ian on April 18, 2013, 08:54:17 PM
You guys missed a great round tonight. #1 tag was up for grabs and we all made mud angels on hole #6 after.
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: fenton on April 18, 2013, 10:08:54 PM
You guys missed a great round tonight. #1 tag was up for grabs and we all made mud angels on hole #6 after.

The mud sledding was a bit over the top...
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: ian on April 19, 2013, 09:11:00 AM
You guys missed a great round tonight. #1 tag was up for grabs and we all made mud angels on hole #6 after.

The mud sledding was a bit over the top...

I kid! The ground was fine since it didn't rain all day. My shoes were cleaner after the round than they were starting it.
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: Ken Franks on April 19, 2013, 09:52:25 AM

I kid! The ground was fine since it didn't rain all day. My shoes were cleaner after the round than they were starting it.

 agree, No mud on my shoes at all.... now, my hoodie was covered in mud from the mud sliding on hole 1...
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: Loomis on April 19, 2013, 11:18:23 AM
All this huffin' and puffin' and no results.
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: jteater on April 19, 2013, 11:21:53 AM
No results because they didn't play. To busy making mud angels and such.
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: y3rsh on April 19, 2013, 12:12:48 PM
I played and had a great time with Josh(a gracious host) and John(visitor from Peoria).  Hope I can make it back a few times this year.  Family stuff keeps me busy.  I made a partial mud angel myself but saved my 3.  Given my girth the angel may look more like the stay pufft marshmallow man.  ;D
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: john theiss on April 19, 2013, 01:07:05 PM
meh.. I guess. Well what about the golfers who throw rollers on dry days. they're leaving an evil little trail of erosion with every foot of roller distance. Plus I think the erosion around the tee pad and pin is the real issue here.

My point is, if the erosion is in such a danger situation that we cant have a league night because of saturated wetness, we need to find an actual long term solution. Fortifying pins and greens, moving holes, redesigning holes.. I don't know though, I'm not the pro here like a Jackie Blowe or Tracy Stalker  ::)

Plus if Water Works washed away tomorrow, how would you feel knowing you never got to say goodbye to her one last time tonight?? eh?

Ya, i do have a plan.  I have roped off many fairways at Young last year and have spread a bunch of seed.  i personally raked in all the seed i put out last Fall.  Then i called in favors from my wife's family and got a ton of hay bales to throw over the seed.  Hay is very expensive and so is seed, especially right now after a super dry couple years.

  did it suck putting in all that work, uhhh.. yes.  it sucks to hand rake  seed in for an entire park.  Now this Spring i have continued to throw out more seed when the ground is just right mix of moisture where foot traffic stomps the seed in.  i will start roping off fairways  next week after the Elks event.   So, yes i do have a plan and have tried very hard to make that course look fantastic.  as Jack says, be part of the problem or be part of the solution.  Maybe you can do both.  there should be some balance.  Maybe when it is raining go play another course in town that has better established turf.  Once erosion starts, it is a losing battle and then more drastic measures have to occur.  And often the parks departments do not come out with their skid and regrade the runoff trench, or drop gravel, or hay and seed.  the parks departments can only fund so much to a non revenue generating  activity.  Pay to play?  these issues would be getting resolved. 

 I do not understand why players think that this is not an issue.  Look at Rosie, it looks like dog sh1t.  I do not even want to play there becuase i get so bothered by how run down it looks in spots and i love rosie.   That course continues to look worse and worse each year.  i agree, there needs to be a plan put into action.  I just do what i can on my local course.  What can you do?  With all these folks that need to get on here all the time and post , you obviously care about the sport.  Why not try give the course some TLC.  do whatever you can to show it some TLC.  Our courses need it, and with so many users, we need to have some sort of responsible action.  i applaud Jack when he cancelled.   I was actually smiling at my computer.  Waaaaa, waaa, waaa, the replies of folks complaining sounds like kindergartners at my school.  get over your self, your wants , your plans, your league night and go play some where else.
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: htimsp on April 19, 2013, 01:15:48 PM
Amen John!!!
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: Utz on April 19, 2013, 04:00:53 PM
This conversation is all good and everything, but It really wasnt bad out at Waterworks. Seriously. the 9 of us walking around did NOTHING to the course last night. I cant stress that enough, waterworks was hardly muddy. None of you were out there to even test the grounds prior to spouting off words about cancelling league. You'd need to tell mother nature to quit playing league if that was the case.  At this point not playing the course isnt going to help. it's going to take something much bigger.

Second, A random person cannot come off the street and start physically doing things to a course. In fact, we discourage those kinds of actions ( clipping trees, planting trees, building structures etc) There has to be a plan of action if you want people to mobilize and help out. Myself, for instance, I dont have a clue how to build things that will prevent erosion. I would basically need to be told what to do. I've yet to see any sort of guidance or instruction on what I can physically do. (I'm guessing this will be the subject of any given workday)

Lastly, All this work-day attacking nonsense is starting to eat at me. I've never bashed anyone for not helping us with the KCFDC website, forums, processes, KCWO development etc etc, There is work to be done everywhere. but don't call folks out just because you dont see them at your workday. I've personally ramped up my volunteer time all for the sport. It's no different, except the fact that I'm using brain instead of my body.

Folks will eventually have the "ah-hah!" moment, when they realize all this Disc Golf in KC isn't here because of some auto-magical force; but rather by the hard work and dedication of OUR PEOPLE.

Until that moment, don't tell me I'm doing the "wrong thing" because I didn't cancel a club league night in fear of erosion on a course that was hardly muddy..  :-[
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: john theiss on April 19, 2013, 05:14:43 PM
I do not call folks out for not showing up to work days.  go back on my posts and look.  i called folks out on tearing up the turf.  I am being an advocate for the park.  so is jack.  I  do not get upset when folks do not come out to help and  that is not what this is all about.  i do it because i have had the free time to do it and i want to be proactive. It is my choice to do the work and i do not give folks a hard time for not working on courses.  I called out folks for stressing the turf.  It is tough to maintain these courses and i do what i can to help minimize the damage.   others can be cautious where they play and when they play.   i do not have the skills to work a computer and applaud the efforts of the board, tech team, and countless volunteers.   

 I am that random guy off the street that does the fixing.  that is fact.  throwing out seed and stomping it in is not too much to ask for someone.  that is easy to do.   if i do not do it, then who will?  that is not a call out.  When courses get abused i get frustrated with the work that i put into the course and then it seems to me that the hard work put into the course is just being discarded.  Three of my courses were completely over grown neglected woods  with run off trenches everywhere.  It takes a lot of man power, machinery, time, and money to make the ground look nice and pretty.  ANd most park departments do not consider us the main priority.  An inch of prevention is worth a pound of cure.  Water is an amazingly powerful beast that takes the easiest path.

  i know that hilly courses drain better than flat ones.  that is common sense and you all made the common sense judgement  to play.  Young is playable often after storms, but that is because we have some turf established.  plus it is much younger of a course than WW and Cliff and does not get super heavy traffic.  We also have been very proactive in protecting areas.  We have bad erosion on hole 4 and 5 and it drives me crazy.  Getting turf reestablished on hills is problematic and i believe that we need to start roping off areas, heavily deep seeding, covering with hay and watching the fruits of our labor blossom in one measly month. That is my main point in this long winded rant.

  So..... WW  was not muddy, it drained off and everyone is happy.   
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: joots on April 19, 2013, 09:23:09 PM
I played and had a great time with Josh(a gracious host) and John(visitor from Peoria).  Hope I can make it back a few times this year.  Family stuff keeps me busy.  I made a partial mud angel myself but saved my 3.  Given my girth the angel may look more like the stay pufft marshmallow man.  ;D
I had a great time with you and John as well.  Though John is from Peoria, and you from Lawrence, I do hope that we get a round in together sometime.  Good luck with the knee and when your family moves down to KC.
 
Yeah, so, Utz and others who posted were correct, the course was considerably dry, which was contrary to most beliefs.  I do appreciate all that John T, Tracy and Jack L, as well as others, do for the upkeep and general well being of the courses around town.  I can only hope that I will be afforded time to come out and volunteer my raking and chain saw skills when a work day is scheduled.  Kudos to all of you who put out hours upon hours at WW, and keep it at a top notch level.  Imagine how much better it would be with retaining walls and all the necessities to cut back the erosion; WOW...!
Title: Re: Water Works League - 04/18/2013
Post by: jamidanger on April 19, 2013, 11:53:11 PM
ww has great drainage - thanks to volunteers. also, there is no grass seed or trees freshly planted like at cliff, where traffic will damage the growth. keep it in the fairway at either course and you should have safe footing.