Author Topic: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3  (Read 39140 times)

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jack

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Chris played within the rules, as did many of the "pro's" who competed.  So to get this straight, a 974 rated player scares you because they took cash at an event once, or don't want plastic and want to play for cash?

I get that the purists in some of you (Danger, Stiles, many of you with 4 digit PDGA #'s) agree that this shouldn't be the case.  It is though, and completely legal to do so.  So at a B-Tier the highest rated person took 18th, and the 6th highest rated person won....so chastise him for playing within the rules?

I choose to keep my am status intentionally because I can play other Majors in both divisions that way if the opportunity offers it.  I otherwise would be a pro if I could play Am Worlds and my 915 rating.....but I can play intermediate....I choose not to, and a times I get beat by recreational players.

Any given day, at this point based on the ratings, you aren't talking about super beings all over 1000, he wasn't even close to capping out.....so what do you do about ams over the 975 rating (was hoping there was one)

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robm

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It comes down to it that this was a PDGA event.  Per PDGA rules, he qualified.  Looky here:

http://www.pdga.com/documents/divisions-ratings-points-factors

http://www.pdga.com/files/2014%20PlayerDivisionGrid.pdf

At the bottom of the .pdf there is a 'Pros Playing Am' division.  A Pro player with a rating less than 970 can play in Advanced in A, B, or C tier events.  They may NOT play in Am divisions for PDGA Majors (Worlds, Selinske Masters).  It does not address NT's.

There were 5 players above Chris Claring rating wise. 

I'm not sure that if I was the TD, I wouldn't have let him play (meaning I probably would have).

People are complaining about Loomis' alledged wrong interpretation of rules, but in this situation, Claring clearly was eligible to play.  I'm not defending Loomis in any way, nor am I saying Loomis had a choice if Claring played.  What I am saying is, if we are standing on a soap box complaining that we think some of the rules were not adhered to at Water Works, then we also need to stand on the same rules about which player can play in what division.  Claring was was eligible to play, so he was allowed to play.

This was not the only situation like this.  One of the individuals that tied for 1st in Recreation also tied for 1st in an Intermediate B-tier in 2013.  However, just because they won/tied in Intermediate, their rating allowed them to still compete in Recreation.  Fair, I don't know.  Legal - absolutely.  If I was the TD, I would totally allow this person to play in Rec.  Most importantly because it was legal.  Second because I view this as a situation where the person was playing above his rated division for a long time and decided for various reasons to play his actual rated division this particular time.



As info, as a Master, his rating made him ineligible for the Adv. Masters division, which is probably why he played up in the Advanced divisions along with all of the young guns.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 11:10:35 AM by robm »
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jamidanger

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ethically I would wager a player with a five digit pdga number ratfinked utz's caddy. As an aged pro, I will be happy to have a caddy for the lions den. must be swift afoot, appreciate second hand smoke and speak English fluently
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jack

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Claring made me look at my rating a coupe of years ago when I was classified as a PRO, I made the cut, but he was watching.

Chris is a stand up guy through and through.  Did nothing wrong.  Played well!
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white mccoy

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Chris Claring did not beat all of you guys because he is Super-human, a pro, master, accepted cash, or his rating is higher than you.  He doesn't throw farther, putt better, or tomahawk better than you.  He beat you because he is mentally better at the game than you.  Do think he was looking at the player board whining that this guy is highly rated, or this guy plays Waterworks everyday...NO fair :'(     

No

He saw an opportunity to take on some young guns, old skills, and homie golfers to make himself better by proving that he has got what it takes to still beat you....even being old and fat...and bearded (Sorry Chris).   

Quit crying and go improve your game.  I'm ashamed of all of you for not putting up a better fight.


Ps.  I have more.   Would you all be b%tching about Mike T if he would have won???

Also, I bet if you took all Adv. division B-tiers, and averaged them out....it would equal out to the winner having to shoot at least 980 golf to win.  So go practice.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 11:28:18 AM by white mccoy »
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Jeff O

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It comes down to it that this was a PDGA event.  Per PDGA rules, he qualified.  Looky here:

http://www.pdga.com/documents/divisions-ratings-points-factors

http://www.pdga.com/files/2014%20PlayerDivisionGrid.pdf

At the bottom of the .pdf there is a 'Pros Playing Am' division.  A Pro player with a rating less than 970 can play in Advanced in A, B, or C tier events.  They may NOT play in Am divisions for PDGA Majors (Worlds, Selinske Masters).  It does not address NT's.

There were 5 players above Chris Claring rating wise. 

I'm not sure that if I was the TD, I wouldn't have let him play (meaning I probably would have).

People are complaining about Loomis' alledged wrong interpretation of rules, but in this situation, Claring clearly was eligible to play.  I'm not defending Loomis in any way, nor am I saying Loomis had a choice if Claring played.  What I am saying is, if we are standing on a soap box complaining that we think some of the rules were not adhered to at Water Works, then we also need to stand on the same rules about which player can play in what division.  Claring was was eligible to play, so he was allowed to play.

This was not the only situation like this.  One of the individuals that tied for 1st in Recreation also tied for 1st in an Intermediate B-tier in 2013.  However, just because they won/tied in Intermediate, their rating allowed them to still compete in Recreation.  Fair, I don't know.  Legal - absolutely.  If I was the TD, I would totally allow this person to play in Rec.  Most importantly because it was legal.  Second because I view this as a situation where the person was playing above his rated division for a long time and decided for various reasons to play his actual rated division this particular time.



As info, as a Master, his rating made him ineligible for the Adv. Masters division, which is probably why he played up in the Advanced divisions along with all of the young guns.

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jamidanger

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Mike T was allowed to play? that was wrong on the same premise, but legal I am sure. just the whole "amateur" moniker that came with this tournament needs to change, which is why I humbly submit calling this event the Midwest Challenge in the future.
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Utz

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He's also been playing since the 90's. (probably much longer, just what the PDGA has on file) To me, that does not say amateur in the least. AM needs to be redefined. Tough to do though!
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jack

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By that logic Utz, I have been playing regularly since the early 80's.......really think I am a "pro"
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stevet

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I had no problems with any of the pro masters playing.  I think it really makes for a interesting mashup of potential young pros with seasoned master players.  The tougher players are the soon to be pros playing AMs (>970 refused cash).  I think you just have to accept that in big AM tournaments you are going to have these players.  Bowling green has probably the biggest non-major AM tournament:

http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/16411

The advanced field is littered with these pro AM players who have refused open cash in smaller tournaments.

I expect this tournament to grow.  The sandbagging will grow right along with it.

jamidanger

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ps : I would have loved to battle with the petticoat grands, looked like a fun group. the real issue now is prep for lions den. anybody know how to kill a thread, wait I have a blue lighter somewhere.
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quinnie

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I am not b!^ching here - I save that for when I am behind someones back -  :-X I don't understand how a player can deny cash so he can keep his am rating?  Not trying to complain, but  I just don't understand the rule.

dickthediscparker

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It's his AM status, not rating. You turn CASH down and then you don't have to pay $75 a year to the PDGA and you can still play in the Am Worlds/Doubles.
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jack

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You decide if you want to be a PRO in our sport or not.  You can always play pro, you have to pay more, you can win cash, but once you accept it, you become PRO.  You then have to petition the PDGA to go back to Am Status within the guidelines (yours truly did just that) if you elect to do so.

The bottom line, it is a personal decision to make.  The rules though based on ratings and how you can play are quite specific.  As long as Loomis isn't changing them at the conversation point you can be rest assured that people will follow the guidelines.  There are other guidelines as well which didn't happen in the event this time.  You can actually have people as PRO's with ratings above the 970 that would have still been eligible to play based on the rating they had when they signed up, or the cut off date.  The most recent ratings may have elevated them past that, but they would still be eligible for the event.  That would have REALLY ruffled some feathers huh? :o

About this Lion's Den you speak of.....
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Shucky Ducky

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I personally love this thread...Jack you crack my ass up sometimes with your spot on comments!

In the immortal words of Shane Falco:

Gentlemen. It's been an honor to share the field (thread) of battle with you.

I wish I could say something classy and inspirational, but that just wouldn't be our (my) style.

Pain heals (haters hate). Chicks dig scars (stupid people don't understand rules). Glory (B-tier wins)... lasts forever.

I added the red text for disc golfer translation...lol

Now the real question at hand...

Are you ready for some CHIEFS football???