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General => Tournaments => Topic started by: Scott A Reek on February 24, 2015, 09:39:59 AM

Title: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on February 24, 2015, 09:39:59 AM
Welcome to the 1st Annual Midwest Doubles Championship that will be held on April 19th, 2015 at Lakeside Hills (Birdland) in Olathe, Kansas.   I will get more details soon, but for now registration is at www.dynamicdiscs.com (http://www.dynamicdiscs.com) or at the DDKC store.

http://dynamicdiscs.com/disc-golf-tournaments/2015/midwest-doubles-championships.html (http://dynamicdiscs.com/disc-golf-tournaments/2015/midwest-doubles-championships.html)

There are 6 Divisions

Open
Open Masters
Amateur
Amateur Masters
Mixed
Womens

The idea of this event is to play a true doubles style event.  We will be playing Best Shot, Best Disc, Alternate and either Worst Shot or Tough Shot.  You will need a good team to pull of a win at this event.

(http://dynamicdiscs.com/flyers/2015/Midwest-Doubles-ChampionshipsL.jpg)
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: jack on February 24, 2015, 10:47:01 AM
thats 4 rounds of playing style for one day?
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: SteelerDoug on February 24, 2015, 11:16:42 AM
I wonder if its alternating holea Jack? Let's keep it simple. One rd, one way. Another rd, another way. And leave it as so.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: jamidanger on February 24, 2015, 12:08:35 PM
sundays are gr8 4 me, looking for a partner, pref left handed and 980+ rated
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: jack on February 24, 2015, 03:29:32 PM
I wonder if its alternating holea Jack? Let's keep it simple. One rd, one way. Another rd, another way. And leave it as so.

That's why I was asking there Doug, but since Scott is on his way to AZ.....  >:( :( :P :'(

I don't expect an immediate answer!
 ;D
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on February 24, 2015, 03:35:13 PM
It will be 2 rounds.  Still deciding on the mix of styles per round.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Zier on February 24, 2015, 03:43:35 PM
Is this going to be just two divisions, or will there be Intermediate and Advanced divisions within the Amateur category?
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: dickthediscparker on February 24, 2015, 04:38:25 PM
It's dubs, why would it need to be split up?

By the looks of it, there will only be 1 division for ams.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: dan howard on February 24, 2015, 08:30:11 PM
Is this going to be just two divisions, or will there be Intermediate and Advanced divisions within the Amateur category?
By the looks of it, there will only be 1 division for ams.

According to the first post in this thread it's just the kids(ams) and us old goats(am masters) on the Am side. And Am side cash payouts would be a great and wonderfully novel concept!!! What's not mentioned is whether it's a PDGA sanctioned event or not, I'm curious about that.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Zier on February 24, 2015, 08:41:36 PM
Yeah, I saw that after posting Dan, but it was too late.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: EL KUJO on February 24, 2015, 10:49:39 PM
Yeah, I saw that after posting Dan, but it was too late.

says pdga b tier on thread topic
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on February 24, 2015, 11:06:14 PM
This is a PDGA B Tier event.  All Amateur payout will be merch and pro payout is cash.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: dan howard on February 24, 2015, 11:41:17 PM
Thanks Scott/Kujo, missed that. Threw out my shoulder at Rosey this afternoon and am using the Rush Limbaugh method of self medicating tonight (painkillers and Vodka Martinis!), doesn't grant me the license to be an ass. Sorry for the attitude in that post Nate and Dick.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Zier on February 25, 2015, 05:39:35 AM
I didn't take it as attitude, I actually saw the division's after posting and was waiting for someone to call me out in it. I just like divisions broken down more, and failed at reading.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: dickthediscparker on February 25, 2015, 07:42:33 AM
No more attitude from you sir!

And Nate, breaking down divisions is fine but unnecessary for dubs. Putting 2 people together on a team makes it very hard to say you are intermediate or advanced. I've seen some pretty bad players team up to be great dubs partners.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: mikedopen on February 25, 2015, 09:11:29 AM
Like you and Tom  ;D Boom
No more attitude from you sir!

And Nate, breaking down divisions is fine but unnecessary for dubs. Putting 2 people together on a team makes it very hard to say you are intermediate or advanced. I've seen some pretty bad players team up to be great dubs partners.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: dickthediscparker on February 25, 2015, 09:18:03 AM
Like you and Tom  ;D Boom
No more attitude from you sir!

And Nate, breaking down divisions is fine but unnecessary for dubs. Putting 2 people together on a team makes it very hard to say you are intermediate or advanced. I've seen some pretty bad players team up to be great dubs partners.

EXACTLY!
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Zier on March 01, 2015, 02:28:23 PM
I know Dick, I'm one of those bad players. When I team up with somebody like Bowen Seiter, we can win dubs.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: MK on March 01, 2015, 05:00:48 PM
True but is is way harder for "bad players" to succeed when the format includes worst shot and/or tough shot. 
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Anthony Puryear on March 01, 2015, 05:25:23 PM
True but is is way harder for "bad players" to succeed when the format includes worst shot and/or tough shot.

It also makes for a lot of laughs. Make sure you find a partner who doesn't take the day too seriously.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: bMathews on March 02, 2015, 03:12:19 PM
AP, I would ask if you want to partner up for this, but I can't seem to shoot under 64 out there and wouldn't want to bring you down...
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on March 05, 2015, 12:58:01 PM
Here is the link for the FB Event page.

https://www.facebook.com/events/863784047013540/ (https://www.facebook.com/events/863784047013540/)
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: five2loves42 on March 05, 2015, 03:42:02 PM
It's dubs, why would it need to be split up?

By the looks of it, there will only be 1 division for ams.

How about a mix-am division?
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on March 05, 2015, 04:52:22 PM
There is a Mixed Division offered.  I will offer a womens division as well if there are three or more teams
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: five2loves42 on March 05, 2015, 05:15:12 PM
There is a Mixed Division offered.  I will offer a womens division as well if there are three or more teams

Thanks Scott. Sorry I did not read the flier well enough...these Grandmaster's eyes :)
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on March 18, 2015, 05:52:41 PM
This event will hold 45 teams and we currently at 20 teams
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on March 26, 2015, 04:58:13 PM
The course is set except #1 and #12 need to move to long.

Round 1.
Holes #1-#9 Best Shot
Holes #10-#18 Worst Shot

Round 2.
Holes #1-#9 Best Disc
Holes #10-#18 Alternate Shot

Best Shot: Both players throw and select the best shot.

Worst Shot. The other teams on the card will pick which shot is the worst. Both players must hole out for the hole to be complete.

Best Disc: each player plays the hole as singles and take the best score between the two players.

Alternate Shot: team decides who starts. Players never throw 2 times in a row.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: jack on March 27, 2015, 07:17:29 AM
Scott,

On the alternate shot format, typically there is an alternation between the driving on the holes as well.   In which case you MAY throw 2x at the same time.   Now that is a typical scenario, but you can call them as you see fit, I was just wondering if that will be the case or not.  So Player A throws farther by 30% over player B, and as such Player A misses a putt to always drive.......

Your call entirely but wanted to see what you thought.  Could be the case as well in mixed so that you are alternating drives.

just throwing it out there.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on March 27, 2015, 08:05:10 AM
On Alternate shot, player A would drive, player B would take the upshot and player A would make the putt.  On the next hole Player B would drive and so forth.  This style format would not allow a player to throw 2x in a row.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: white mccoy on March 27, 2015, 08:08:51 AM
The course is set except #1 and #12 need to move to long.

Round 1.
Holes #1-#9 Best Shot
Holes #10-#18 Worst Shot

Round 2.
Holes #1-#9 Best Disc
Holes #10-#18 Alternate Shot

Best Shot: Both players throw and select the best shot.

Worst Shot. The other teams on the card will pick which shot is the worst. Both players must hole out for the hole to be complete.

Best Disc: each player plays the hole as singles and take the best score between the two players.

Alternate Shot: team decides who starts. Players never throw 2 times in a row.


*LIKE*
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: jack on March 27, 2015, 10:10:58 AM
On Alternate shot, player A would drive, player B would take the upshot and player A would make the putt.  On the next hole Player B would drive and so forth.  This style format would not allow a player to throw 2x in a row.

Ok, so for clarification....as I know you get it as well.....

Alternate shot will be alternate shot on the hole as played, that alternate player would drive on the next hole.  The way it is worded, could be construed that you alternate every shot all the time was my only concern.  I get it, but others may not who haven't played in this format.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: MK on March 27, 2015, 10:33:34 AM
http://www.pdga.com/rules/rules-for-doubles (http://www.pdga.com/rules/rules-for-doubles)

Alternate Shot

In Alternate Shot, only one sequence of throws is made on each hole. The team selects a player to throw the tee shot at the beginning of the round. The other player then throws from the subsequent lie, and play alternates in that fashion until the round is completed. Alternate Shot is closer to a singles format, where one partner can't bail the other out. If you miss a short putt, chances are good that you'll be driving the next hole.
If the wrong player on a team throws, another team must call it immediately, like a foot fault. The team receives a warning, and the correct player throws. Subsequent violations incur a one-throw penalty.
For any violation that requires a rethrow (stance violation, provisional throw), the same player throws.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: jack on March 27, 2015, 11:21:42 AM
http://www.pdga.com/rules/rules-for-doubles (http://www.pdga.com/rules/rules-for-doubles)
......Alternate Shot is closer to a singles format, where one partner can't bail the other out. If you miss a short putt, chances are good that you'll be driving the next hole........

Which is EXACTLY what I am asking Scott about.  in this exact scenario if you have a clearly better driving partner it will beneficial in many instances to allow that person to drive the next hole over a 1 stroke component.

Hence (and again this is just the way I used to run it when I did 6-6-6 format double events) you alternate shots, but you also alternate Drives as well.  We also did it this way in the ball golf/disc golf round.  That way everyone has to drive and use their drives accordingly at some point.  If you go to the model of every other shot, you could in theory have that long armer throwing it to the basket on every drive, and the other person putting in drop in's.  Not really creating the notion of using every person to balance the holes.

Now, this is just my own interpretation on how it will be played, and that is why I am just wanting to see some specific clarification on this stance.  You can alter it accordingly.

But I believe that the way Scott is saying he will it have it is straight on Alternate shot, which could mean that the entire series of 9 holes only one person could drive and one person would putt.  Just want to make sure I am getting it the way he wants it.  Which I think is this method.....not as I indicated.


Just as he has already indicated that on the Worst shot both players need to make it "In the Best Shot and Tough Shot formats, the second player does not throw if the first player has holed out." , this could also be clarified and hence my asking.  As long as it is consistent from beginning to end of the event that is fine, but just trying to grab clarification as well.

THe 6-6-6 format is one I used for the LS Doubles over the years, 1-6 Best Shot, 7-12 alternate shot, and 13-18 Worst shot.....IO love the idea all in all, just trying to point out an issue that I see when you really make it every other shot the entire time on alternate, it can create an unfair advantage very quickly......
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Shucky Ducky on March 27, 2015, 11:42:11 AM
I've always played it as an alternate shot to playout the hole but you also alternate the players on teeing off as well so you have to rely on both to throw good drives. Just my dos cents worth!
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Tom on March 27, 2015, 12:02:08 PM
The pdga rules is how I've played alternate shot in the green country dubs twice in Tulsa. No player throws twice in a row. Jacks scenario that a team would intentionally miss a putt so the better driver could drive is a possibility, but the strokes would add up if they did it repeatedly. It is simpler to just play it as described...no player ever shots twice in a row.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on March 27, 2015, 01:01:06 PM
This is how this event will be played.  When a team gets to Hole #10, they will decide who is driving from that pad and then there partner will throw the next shot.  No player will shoot 2x in a row.  The person who is driving is only decided on the 1st of hole of this format, after that, the players will alternate between players.

The pdga rules is how I've played alternate shot in the green country dubs twice in Tulsa. No player throws twice in a row. Jacks scenario that a team would intentionally miss a putt so the better driver could drive is a possibility, but the strokes would add up if they did it repeatedly. It is simpler to just play it as described...no player ever shots twice in a row.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on March 27, 2015, 01:01:27 PM
Registration is up to date
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: jack on March 27, 2015, 11:05:59 PM
This is how this event will be played.  When a team gets to Hole #10, they will decide who is driving from that pad and then there partner will throw the next shot.  No player will shoot 2x in a row.  The person who is driving is only decided on the 1st of hole of this format, after that, the players will alternate between players.

The pdga rules is how I've played alternate shot in the green country dubs twice in Tulsa. No player throws twice in a row. Jacks scenario that a team would intentionally miss a putt so the better driver could drive is a possibility, but the strokes would add up if they did it repeatedly. It is simpler to just play it as described...no player ever shots twice in a row.

Coolio thanks for the clarification, and Tom I am not saying that the person would miss a putt per se, but if you do have that long driver that can get it to the pin on each hole, they will be teeing on every hole.

Scott has clarified it.  Every other shot, I just wanted to make absolutely sure! 

Thanks so much for taking time to answer it here.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on March 28, 2015, 08:27:38 AM
Thank you for asking.  This is the first time many people have seen a doubles event with different formats and its a learning experience for all to understand the differences.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Crispian on March 29, 2015, 09:58:04 AM
I'm sorry. I still don't get it... I understand player a drives, player b makes next throw, then player a until hole is finished. Still not clear on next hole. If player b finishes putt on the hole, does player a automatically drive on next hole or is it only alternate on hole by hole basis?
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on March 29, 2015, 10:54:04 AM
Its simplest to remember a player will never throw 2x in a row.  Who ever drives, the partner will throw the next shot.  Whoever putts, there partner will drive the next hole.  If player A parks the hole, player B would make the putt and player A would drive again.  If player A throws it short, player B would make the upshot and Player A would make the putt and Player B then would drive the next hole. 
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on March 29, 2015, 09:57:08 PM
There are currently 43 teams registered and we can hold up to 54 teams, so not many left if you are planning on playing.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on March 30, 2015, 06:53:06 PM
The Registration for the Midwest Doubles Championships is officially closed.  There are two team spots remaining that are reserved for Pro Teams.  However, if they are still available by the end of Wednesday 4/15, I will open them up to the waiting list.  If you are a Pro Team, you will need to add yourself to the waiting list and I will contact you.  If you are any other division and want to play, add yourself to the waitlist

http://dynamicdiscs.com/disc-golf-tournaments/2015/midwest-doubles-championships.html (http://dynamicdiscs.com/disc-golf-tournaments/2015/midwest-doubles-championships.html)
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Phil Ellis on March 30, 2015, 09:34:53 PM
Curious, why is the event capped at 54 teams?  I realize it's 2x players, so if it's just a restriction on the permit, that makes sense.   Alternating shot should theoretically play at the same speed as a singles event, so hopefully the cap isn't based on presumption of slower pace of play?
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: SteelerDoug on March 30, 2015, 09:40:41 PM
Valid "Inquisition?"  ;)
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on March 30, 2015, 09:40:50 PM
54 teams is capping the event to three teams per hole which is 108 players.  I think 3 teams on a hole is as much as the event can take to maintain a quality event.  54 teams is already larger than most single events can hold on 1 course without adding additional holes.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: jack on March 31, 2015, 09:47:33 AM
doubles events take longer.  It just does.  You spend more time asking questions, planning thinking, retracing, looking.  The ONLY part that is short is alternate shot, everything else takes longer.

Having this many people on the course will SLOW it down considerably.

Kudos to Scott for attempting this!
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: SteelerDoug on March 31, 2015, 10:25:19 AM
Nothing wrong with being slow yet me·thod·i·cal  ;)
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Phil Ellis on March 31, 2015, 02:58:35 PM
Thanks Scott and Jack for your replies. I hope my question did not come across as criticism, I really was just curious.  I haven't participated in a doubles event before, so had not considered the extra time spent talking, planning, etc.  That makes sense.  I was just considering that 3 teams throwing alternate should (in theory, on average) throw the same number of shots as 3 singles, so the time spent actually throwing would be the same.  But it makes sense that "everything else" would take longer.  Now that I think more about it, that's where the teamwork comes into play. The throw execution is still individual, but the strategy and planning between throws is a team effort.

I think this will be a fun event, and I appreciate you taking the players' experience into consideration when planning.  I hope it goes well.  If I don't end up playing, I will come out to watch and maybe shoot video. :)
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: phisherman_77 on April 03, 2015, 12:45:41 PM
Could someone from DD check on the registration for my team, Advanced Team 35?

My name, Brian Palmer, is showing as registered, but my partner, Tim Becks, isn't on the list.  The other entry for Advanced Team 35 is blank.

Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Scott A Reek on April 13, 2015, 09:09:11 AM
Its tournament week.  Players packages can be picked up on Wednesday starting at 10a
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: tallguy007kc on April 14, 2015, 08:53:08 AM
From the pairings I'm seeing in the Open division, it looks like this could be a good opportunity to do some 'spectatin''  8)
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Skyhawkmd on April 14, 2015, 11:11:10 AM
I was thinking of setting up a heckling section...
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: tmattoon on April 18, 2015, 09:01:53 PM
Is check in 8-8:45? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: Mantis on April 18, 2015, 09:19:10 PM
Yes.  It's on the Facebook page. 
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: SteelerDoug on April 18, 2015, 09:38:24 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: SteelerDoug on April 21, 2015, 07:26:31 PM
Thank you Scott for the time and effort.  Another great event to experience a wide variety of challenges.  54 teams was perfect for that event.

To everyone who "missed out".  I recommend you play in one of these event's.  Playing Alternate and Worse Shot was very challenging to say the least.

Footnote:  Does anyone know if points earned in this doubles event, XB Tier, can be counted towards your Worlds Invite?


I don't see a Points Factor number for an XB  Tier.  I see Major's, NT, A, B, C tier's respectfully and League points factors.

Great Job Scott!!!
Title: Re: 2015 Midwest DOUBLES Championship - PDGA B Tier - April 19th - Lakeside
Post by: SteelerDoug on April 21, 2015, 08:34:50 PM
All points earned, even in X-tiers and doubles, count toward Worlds qualification. Of course, you want to earn them in Am divisions if you're an Am or in a Pro division if you are a pro.