KCFDC Forum

General => General Banter => Topic started by: bbjon on July 03, 2013, 09:47:42 AM

Title: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: bbjon on July 03, 2013, 09:47:42 AM
I thought I would throw out this topic to some of the more experienced players out there to see how everyone handles this.  Here is some background on me and the group of people I usually play with.  I have only been playing the sport for a few years, and started playing with the goal of having fun, and doing something healthier than sitting on the couch.  When I started I didn't have a clue what I was doing, often throwing putters off the tee, and drivers on the approach.  I threw multiple discs per lie, played the disc where it lied, used gimmie's etc... as things have progressed and my skill level has increased as well as my knowledge of the sport, I began playing more legit.  By legit I mean, no mulligans, keeping score, etc... Naturally as my group also increased in skill level (we all started playing about the same time) we began getting more competitive, to the point now where we all have Bag Tags, play in tourneys, play 3-4 times a week, etc... 

While I am by no means a professional disc golfer, I have joined the PDGA and the KCFDC and have read the PDGA rule book.  Here is the 6 million dollar question:

Are PDGA rules generally to be applied during each round of golf, be it casual, league, or tournament?  I.E. if five or six guys play regularly and we are playing competitively (Tags) should all the PDGA rules be enforced? 

The following scenario developed during a recent casual but competitive round: Player 1 throws OB on the very first throw of the game.  The other players note this is OB, enforce the penalty stroke and drop/re-throw.  Later on during the round, player 1 notices the other players throwing out of turn.  Player 1 gives a warning not to throw out of turn.  Subsequent violations are also noted, and further warnings are given.  Several holes later, player 1 throws into a tree and has to spend a few minutes looking for his disc.  Instead of helping the player look for his disc since he is obviously the away player, the other players continue to play the hole ahead of the away player, thus throwing out of turn.  Since multiple warnings had been given, Player 1 calls for a penalty stoke to be assessed to the players who had violated the courtesy rule of throwing out of turn.  Instead of accepting the extra stroke, the other players decline this penalty stroke and bring up excuses such as "we are not PDGA members", "this is not a tournament", "the rules were not announced prior to the beginning of the round", etc...  basically whining :) 

Technically I could have actually enforced any number of other courtesy rules for "throwing minis", "advancing on the fairway beyond the away player", "practice throws" (throwing multiple discs from the same lie (non announced provisional throws)) or "shouting".

The way I see it, since we were playing a competitive round, PDGA rules should have been in effect (OB is always enforced, why not other PDGA rules).   

Just curious how other players observe the rules.  Does everyone announce that PDGA rules are in play?  If they are not announced, are none enforceable; including OB?  Again, I'm talking about competitive rounds where there is something at stake such as tags, not practice rounds. 
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: jack on July 03, 2013, 10:23:04 AM
Tracy is correct.  However, if you are playing for Tags, or truly pride, then rules should be adhered to.  THat being said, there is also the concept of "flow of the game" where as it is permissible to throw out of turn essentially by the players for the speed of the game.  Also in the result of a lost disc, it is the responsibility of everyone to look for the disc.

Generally speaking when I play casual rounds, you play by the rules.  When you throw that "extra shot" it doesn't count, only your first throw counts, the exception in most cases is 2 off the FIRST tee, which is declared openly by the entire group.

Most importantly HAVE FUN though is the correct response......
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: eeastwood on July 03, 2013, 10:26:12 AM
The short answer for your question, is no for casual rounds even for bag tags not all PDGA rules should be enforced.  You can if you want, but I don't thinks it necessary or fun.  For casual rounds, most that I play with have a more casual stance on rules too.  Marking with a mini or leaving the disc is less strict.  If someone flips their disc instead or if it's a gimme and don't mark their disc at all, I don't worry about it.  OB is always OB, but you must decide what is and isn't before the round is started or at least the hole has been played.  A group of friends playing together should always be courteous, but I don't think it's appropriate to call for strokes for courtesy violations.  If it bothers you if one of your friends plays out of turn or some other courtesy violation, say something to them and if they don't stop, don't continue to play with them.   What if I decide to drink a beer during a round?  That's a violation of PDGA rules.  If you and I were playing a casual round (or league round for that matter) and you tell me you are going to stroke me for drinking a beer, guess what I'm not going to want to play with you.  I've played rounds were bag tags were in play and we all threw extra shots.  Either trying new discs, different lines, or mad at  missed putt.  The first shot is the one that counts, the rest are just for fun, which is the point.   I usually ask first though. 

If I'm playing for bag tags, these are the rules I normally play by.  Define OB/Mandos (with additional strokes in play), no mulligans (first shot counts), correct stance (no stepping to the side or around a tree to get a better lie, you play it where it's suppose to be played), and for lost discs (strokes added, but don't limit looking to 3 minutes.  I will help a friend look for a lost disc until he decides we can't find it).  There's probably something else I am missing, but those are generally the rules we go by.  But any of those can be decided by a group vote.  Remember this all for fun.  Go out and have some. 
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: robm on July 03, 2013, 10:31:59 AM
What Eric says.

For casual play with somewhat serious players (anyone that also plays league, PDGA member, plays tournies), actual rules of play (think of moving violations in an automobile) are followed.  Courtesy issues (think of road rage, stopping to help a flat tire,etc.) are not followed.  I don't smoke anything.  You want to smoke something, whatever, just don't blow it in my face.  You want to cuss like a sailor, I'll put up with it to a point, but if you act like a spoiled brat all the time, or complain about your wife and kids every time we play (a co-worker), I stop asking you to play DG.

Moving violations are not ok.  Have a proper stance, no falling puts, etc.

Now with newbies - all rules are 'suggestions' until they want to learn more.
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: bbjon on July 03, 2013, 11:17:54 AM
Thanks for the input.  I am not talking about tournament specific rules, such as no drinking, no smoking etc...  I'm talking about PDGA rule book rules.  PDGA actually has a rule about smoking, under courtesy.  Just make sure it doesn't bother anyone.  I don't say anything about drinking, but I know PDGA sanctioned tourneys have a no drinking/no smoking rule to try and make the event more "family friendly" which is cool with me, for tourney play. 

Here is what I would say are the three major types of rounds and how I think the rules should apply by default.  Any deviation from this should be announced before play.  I.E. casual but tags, tags but OB only, etc..  that way everyone is aware. 

1) Casual/Practice rounds - Rules don't need to be applied, tags are not up for play.  This is what I would say is for trying out new discs, new throws, learning a course, etc... 

2) Competitive rounds - Tags are up for play, PDGA rules apply.  This is what I would say is for league, money, pride/bragging rights etc...

3) Official Play - Tags are up for play, all PDGA rules apply as well as any special tournament rules

I agree that this is about having fun, but I think most Men are competitive by nature.  No offense to the competitive Women out there, I know my wife can be just as competitive as I am, if not more.  I just think that when Men get together it's amplified.
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: ian on July 03, 2013, 11:25:58 AM
My casual rounds always include tags, 2 off the tee on hole 1, gimme putts within 5ft for everyone, beer, disc flippin' and OB penalties. This is basically the same at league minus the 2 drives off the tee.
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: jack on July 03, 2013, 12:28:01 PM
smoking is permitted in all PDGA events, except Majors (Worlds, USDGC, Japan Open, etc...) and where not allowed by rules of the park. 
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: robm on July 03, 2013, 01:13:29 PM
"...smoking *something*.  whatever, just don't blow it in my face."

I'm pretty sure some *things* are not PDGA legal, even in CO.

Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: eeastwood on July 03, 2013, 01:18:51 PM

2) Competitive rounds - Tags are up for play, PDGA rules apply.  This is what I would say is for league, money, pride/bragging rights etc...

Have you played many leagues?  Your interpretation isn't the same as the majority of those that attend KCFDC leagues.  Maybe except the Jack's NE KCMO PDGA league, which should be since it's a rated round.  Even rounds with side bets or other money in play that I've played, all PDGA rules don't apply.  It's up to the group majority to decide whatever rules you play by.  What I'm saying is you can decide whatever rules you want and convince your friends to go along with, but I thought your question was to ask the KC community what we think.  I think your interpretation of a competitive round is not what the majority think.     
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: bbjon on July 03, 2013, 01:45:58 PM

Have you played many leagues?  Your interpretation isn't the same as the majority of those that attend KCFDC leagues.  Maybe except the Jack's NE KCMO PDGA league, which should be since it's a rated round.  Even rounds with side bets or other money in play that I've played, all PDGA rules don't apply.  It's up to the group majority to decide whatever rules you play by.  What I'm saying is you can decide whatever rules you want and convince your friends to go along with, but I thought your question was to ask the KC community what we think.  I think your interpretation of a competitive round is not what the majority think.   
[/quote

I have played in a few leagues, in fact I'll use last Friday night at Legacy as an example.  It was Friday, it was an unsanctioned doubles league, I was drinking and smoking *something*, but I was still asked to be quite while other people were throwing, and expected to abide by courtesy rules, including order of play.   

But from what I'm hearing on this forum I guess I can show up to any league event, talk as loud as I want, cuss, smoke, drink, hell run naked through the middle of the course all without penalty?  SWEET!!!  BTW it won't be "family friendly" and you might just have to bleach your brain after you see it, but what the hell?  No penalty strokes here as long as I stay in bounds, right?
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: robm on July 03, 2013, 02:10:15 PM
Dude, you asked a question. We answered.  If you didn't want answers, don't ask the question.  Not all advice is good advice. It's up to you to decide if it is.

I would guess I've played 4x more rounds by myself than with with other people.  Sometimes the time alone can be pretty therapeutic and also help one appreciate the people you do play with.  Sounds like the real beef is you're pised off with some people.  Take it up with them personally.  If they listen, you've restored a friendship.  If they don't, make some new ones.

Peace -
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: BenC on July 03, 2013, 02:44:15 PM
There are free Rec. leagues at Rosedale on Monday nights at 6:00 and Pleasant Hill on Thursday at 6:00.  I suggest you come out to one of those.  They are competative with an emphasis on learning.  People attend these for various different reasons. One being, learning what is acceptable to do, and not, in the pay out leagues.
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: jack on July 03, 2013, 02:46:50 PM
All KCFDC leagues are played by rules where applicable to the rules of play, in other words we follow the rules of play, but not all the rules of the PDGA.  Basically almost all rules are followed except expulsion for alcohol during league is the reality.  So that is why at league you were asked to be quiet would be my assumption, also it is golf, courteousness is expected during competitive play, which league is considered.  Casual play, sure run wild, but don't get caught, then you have other issues to contend with.
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: gleauzzzinier on July 03, 2013, 02:56:06 PM
having started in ball golf, it sure would be nice to play a league round where people in the group would stop talking when someone is throwing.
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: mpetrin on July 03, 2013, 03:11:19 PM
ask them to stop talking, but it also helps u to learn how to focus on ur shot or drive without being distracted. Playing with 2 pugs also helps
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: dickthediscparker on July 03, 2013, 03:13:38 PM
having started in ball golf, it sure would be nice to play a league round where people in the group would stop talking when someone is throwing.

lol
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: The Nailerâ„¢ on July 03, 2013, 03:41:21 PM
Maybe this is all why nobody ever responds to my threads or joins me for a round.
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: jack on July 03, 2013, 03:44:40 PM
having started in ball golf, it sure would be nice to play a league round where people in the


Did you guys see that number of shots that guy took on the police over there, I wonder where all the keys go when they get lost, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop, where did that hole used to be, when did they paint those lines, where are they going to be showing us how to add our scores, does CD really need to go over there to look, he isn't even in our group, did you hear about what Stiles did to that guy over there?

group would stop talking when someone is throwing.
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: mpetrin on July 03, 2013, 04:34:13 PM
don't ever play with Gabby lol
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: gleauzzzinier on July 03, 2013, 06:14:36 PM
ask them to stop talking, but it also helps u to learn how to focus on ur shot or drive without being distracted. Playing with 2 pugs also helps
brilliant! never thought of that.
where do you wear your plugs?
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: mpetrin on July 05, 2013, 02:39:13 PM
ask them to stop talking, but it also helps u to learn how to focus on ur shot or drive without being distracted. Playing with 2 pugs also helps
brilliant! never thought of that.
where do you wear your plugs?
I don't wear my pugs
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: kidmills on July 05, 2013, 05:24:17 PM
play beer league than go ahead and b%tch
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: jack on July 18, 2013, 12:41:01 PM
There were plenty of RUles interpretation violations at Worlds this past week.....
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: asjzn6 on July 18, 2013, 12:56:05 PM
There were plenty of RUles interpretation violations at Worlds this past week.....

I think rules interpretation is a funny topic, When we had to wait around for our 5th round to start at Peter Pan, There was some chaos with the advanced dudes warming up while competitors were still playing the course. I heard a lot of 'technically they have to give us x amount of time to warm up, technically we cant start warming up until 10 minutes out etc etc.'

I once had a dude tell me that to mark your disc for competition it had to be with a black sharpie marker. I just laugh at these folks and move on.

But i do wonder where they have read these rules
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: Kevin Montgomery on July 18, 2013, 01:41:42 PM
There were plenty of RUles interpretation violations at Worlds this past week.....

I think rules interpretation is a funny topic, When we had to wait around for our 5th round to start at Peter Pan, There was some chaos with the advanced dudes warming up while competitors were still playing the course. I heard a lot of 'technically they have to give us x amount of time to warm up, technically we cant start warming up until 10 minutes out etc etc.'

I once had a dude tell me that to mark your disc for competition it had to be with a black sharpie marker. I just laugh at these folks and move on.

But i do wonder where they have read these rules

Had a guy during our last round at Jones West actually ask if he could get a "do-over" on a missed putt because another guy on our card was in his line of vision and moved just as he was putting, ostensibly making him miss. Funny thing was... the other two guys on the card said okay and he picked up his disc and went to putt again from the same spot as if he were serious. I about had a conniption. It was difficult to remain diplomatic and civil when confronted with such a ludicrous situation. I ended up talking him into taking a provisional so we could get a ruling later. Then throughout the round I would bring it up and eventually everyone agreed to drop it and he'd take the six instead of the five from his "do-over" because they all agreed that it probably wasn't a legal move..... DUH.....   :o

There's something you won't even see in casual play usually. A do-over... WTF! Then I began to realize why I was so far down in my division. Silly me, I had been honestly playing by the rules the entire time...   :P

 
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: jamidanger on July 18, 2013, 04:16:31 PM
ams are still learning from each other, encourage them.
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: coops on July 18, 2013, 05:55:58 PM
ams are still learning from each other, encourage them.

Yeah, for sure. I've never called anyone for anything during league but I have tried to let them know if they were persistently doing something that would come back to bite them later. It is much better to get that sort of information in a semi-competitive round than in a tournament.
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: The Nailerâ„¢ on July 18, 2013, 10:24:07 PM
I usually take a poll and ask the other players if its in question.  They are usually fair.  If they are not...I leave. 
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: Flying J on July 19, 2013, 08:44:05 AM
My casual rounds always include tags, 2 off the tee on hole 1, gimme putts within 5ft for everyone, beer, disc flippin' and OB penalties. This is basically the same at league minus the 2 drives off the tee.

A lot of people do two off the tee on hole 1.  I surely hope they don't count those rounds if they score a personal best ... cuz it's not.
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: asjzn6 on July 20, 2013, 10:56:10 PM
I saw a lot of provisionals used at worlds, I saw a dude in the water with tall grass near the shore and to my best opinion it was ob and obviously so. another dude on the card says lets take a picture and says play a provisional. It was weird to think people just take provisionals just to ask the TD. I was the bearer of bad news   in a few cases.
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: hberciunas on July 21, 2013, 07:43:47 AM
There were plenty of RUles interpretation violations at Worlds this past week.....

Were there any violations of proper attire rules? (Like proper footwear?)
Title: Re: Rules: Are the PDGA rules generally to be observed during each round
Post by: asjzn6 on July 21, 2013, 11:21:09 AM
There were plenty of RUles interpretation violations at Worlds this past week.....

Were there any violations of proper attire rules? (Like proper footwear?)

I didn't see anybody on any of my cards in violation of proper attire. Worlds this year was my first major event and I really enjoyed the performance shirt and polos. Playing at the golf courses and most dudes were wearing khaki shorts and polos i thought we were a bunch of dudes that looked like we knew what we were doing.