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Messages - jack

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Cliff Drive / Re: No more cars at Cliff
« on: August 18, 2014, 03:02:50 PM »
Another thought...
Having a hard time finding any "scenic byways" that are closed to cars with the exception of weather.......anyone else finding them? I just started to look but I am curious how you close a scenic byway.....

National Scenic Byway. A National Scenic Byway is a ROAD recognized by the United States Department of Transportation for one of the six "intrinsic qualities": archeological, cultural, historic, natural, recreational, and/or scenic.

So I get that accordingly the plan states that in title 7 division 10 chapter 12 section 226.797 (3) If the commission designates a road or highway under its jurisdiction as a scenic byway, it may implement protective measures to preserve and protect the designated road which may include but shall not be limited to: (A) Acquisition of scenic easements; (B) Controlled access; and (C) Landscaping.

So if I am reading this correctly for the road you may be able to do this, but the problem isn't along the road, the problem is along the banks of the park, and not part of the scenic byway. The Scenic BYWAY is only the ROAD.

IN all honesty when reading and reviewing this document there are many items that clearly indicate this is a designation to be DRIVEN on. The membership committee (Scenic Byways Advisory Committee-SBAC) is made up of: MO div of tourism, MO Dept Conservation, Mo Dept of Natural Resources (all can claim that this is ok so far then....) Outdoor Advertising Industry, MO Highways and Transportation Dept, and the American Automobile Association, (all car things huh?) and then University of Mo Historic Preservation, and finally Scenic MO Inc.

Since this is a drastic change in the plan by the attempt to remove traffic of cars on the road, has a revision of the plan been sent to the SBAC on this issue?

I really feel as though this is a fast ram rod approach to a painful situation. I get all the crap that happens is irritating, for crying out loud I have been out there for 15 years working on it. I just can't in good conscience knowing that the work that we have done in the past with the agencies involved, knowing what needs to be done to think that closing the gates at Cliff Drive is the answer. It isn't.

Cliff Drive / Re: Blind Guy Playing Tree Love?
« on: August 18, 2014, 03:00:29 PM »
we will work with everyone to make it work for certain.  Great storyline.  You complain about trees?  We raise funds to help grow them in the right spot, and then have a blind guy play in one of the most heavily forested courses in the area.......(I would state Down Under as the only one with more.....)

Cliff Drive / Re: No more cars at Cliff
« on: August 18, 2014, 02:58:43 PM »
Agreeing with Glover.....
I am completely against it.

Said community leaders really think that they are doing all this work that is new to them, and old hat to us.

The bottom line is this, Brett Shoffner (ERTA-Trails why we are adjusting the course and losing a couple of holes) has a lot of energy.  That energy is very similar to the energy that I brought there back when we started to remove all the trash, all the honeysuckle, etc....  So what he is not wanting to see or the thought is that closing the gates will deter dumping.

As we are painfully aware of dumping will continue.  When the gates are closed, they will dump along the roads that don't require access...think disc golf I envision it being a more problematic issue with regards to the work that we will be needing to do. 

Now over time we have been able to continue to work the land so that as dumping occurs we can generally get it out quickly.  So there is some merit in the notion that having it cleaned helps to remove it faster.  That though also presents another challenge for me on a personal note.  It is Cliff Drive, it is not Cliff Trail, not Cliff Walk, not Cliff Ride.  I moved to the area because of that drive, and closing it will impact people that don't know about it, all they will see is gates closed, and wonder....hmmm....and go do something different.

I am fearful that closing the gates will create an elitist atmosphere and not conducive to the overall betterment of the park.

And I get where Brett is coming from.  He is working on areas that we worked on and walked away from, he is seeing things that are new to him, and old to me.  So maybe his energy is better served to make this happen as he doesn't have time constraints that I have now.  I don't know, but I do know that many reading this helped over the past 15 years to build a better place to play.  I also know that at no point did we think that closing the gates permanently was the idea to fix the issue.

Education and enforcement are the answers, but we don't seem to have the civic leaders and authority enforcing that.

So I for one am against the petition to close the gates permanently.  If there was a timeline stated for an actual cleanup and start and end objective I may be more on board.  Right now I am not.

Infact I am hesitant to work a new disc golf course into the mix until this subject is put to rest.  A disc golf course that you have to walk over a mile to get to isn't exactly the way I want to invite people to play, and that would be required or the building of another parking lot, taking away green space which I already think is a bad idea.

Now to do something great this weekend, come out and help at Cliff to get us ready for the Lion's Den Open.  That you can count on to be a fun and energetic event.

Cliff Drive / Re: No more cars at Cliff
« on: August 18, 2014, 01:03:40 PM »
I really think that may be a better option Doug.  I am going to suggest that in all honesty.  Just as we get people adapted to the "car free weekends" at Cliff though, this may be harder to contend with.  Also since we do most of our cleanup on the weekends, I would hate to see that be the case.

I am against the closing of the gates permanently.

You don't have enough time to read the reasoning why, and if you do, start to look at some of my facebook posts....

Cliff Drive / Re: PDGA LEAGUE-NORTHEAST COURSES-Begins 7/7/14
« on: August 18, 2014, 09:04:14 AM »
No, especially tonight, we will be playing a version of the LDO.
Try to be signed up by 5:45 with teeing off at 6 (I am generally the late one)
2-(new hole in woods)
3-2nd new hole in woods)
9-#8 (Hangar)
12-Road shot by #18 pin to blue practice basket (LDO hole)
13-#11 (Short)
18-#17 pad to uphill #18 pin

If I find a Pink Star Valkyrie from the RAC X on it I will put it back in my bag.   ;D

The area I am working on shouldn't have any discs really, as it hasn't been a part of the course to date.

General Banter / Re: Worlds
« on: August 13, 2014, 02:51:11 PM »
I'll smack Russ and Jon around to make sure the next time.  Doesn't he know that the monkeys will be eating by the big kitties out there? ;)

Barter Town / Re: Black and Blue DD Shoes size 12 for sale
« on: August 13, 2014, 01:47:13 PM »
I did find them to run a tad on the small size personally, but if they are brand new, I am sure you can exchange them for a pair in your size with the stores folks, so I wouldn't worry about the size as much as if you want a pair.

General Banter / Re: Worlds
« on: August 13, 2014, 12:32:48 PM »
^^^Like this is a thread the ones above don't forget the Lion's Den Open XII is Saturday. ;D

Marshall is good as well, but that's if you really want competitive play instead of a fun time.  We battle every year with someone that decides to hold a "sanctioned" event against the Leo's Roar....don't they know we are King of the Jungle? ??? ::) :o

I will be out there by new hole #1 tonight about 6ish removing the debris in the gulley if anyone wants to come lend a hand it would be appreciated.  Shouldn't be more than an hour of work, it gets less with more people!

We will also be out there Friday afternoon working on final touches.

Thanks all!

26 comments in a week about the LDO?

Ok well we have 5 beverage sponsor slots left, they come with extra special treatment.

You want to be in the "cool kids section" well you just have to show up.  BUt to be extra special, get one of these!

Cliff Drive / Re: Cliff Drive League Night 8/11/14
« on: August 12, 2014, 08:43:10 AM »
wow.....just wow, what a great night for some golf.  The weather was gorgeous, the course was in pretty good shape minus a few spots, we had a decent crowd on hand to enjoy the night.  It made for a fun night for most of the folks playing.  There were about 20 casuals playing as well throughout the evening and that made for a good mix of golf.  The sunset was BEAUTIFUL, and then the MOON RISE on the other end, just a fantastic night.

We elected to play holes in between the LDO format, which means that we played #8 to the hangar, and #9 as well, they won't be in play on the LDO, but they were last night. Some people on my card had a few issues with the Hangar for certain.....
Here are the results though!
Scott Herring-53=$12
Josh Wiedenfeld-58=$9
Jose Ossa-60
Derrick Holt-60
Zeke Henry-60
Jack Lowe-62
Mike Murphy-64

Bill Shinoski-59=$11 KcKash
Matt Dixon-61=$8 KcKash
TJ Barnes-68=$7 KcKash (I owe you)
Jason Allen-70
Ryan Westa-70
Nate Zier-83
Ben Crosby-Prior Committments

No Ace was hit, so it moves to $526, we did have one go off the top of the basket.  Next week, we will play an 18 hole configuration not 20 that will include some new holes, unsure which, but the course will still be in the LDO configuration for the most part.  Should be a good time!

The new holes in the woods will need some more cleanup to do the "long placement" and we need to get out the downed trees in the "gulley".  I am going to try to get out there tonight to make that happen before the rain.  I think that though slightly treacherous,  I can make it work for the LDO with minimal impact or fear initially.

Will be posted in a minute...

« on: August 11, 2014, 11:19:32 AM »
Playing in the Lion's den configuration tonight, you know you want to play it as well.

See you soon!

Cliff Drive / Big thank you
« on: August 11, 2014, 10:55:46 AM »
I want to give a big thanks to all the people that were out to help on Saturday.  This has been a wonderful work to create and continue to improve on a course many have grown to love, and we continue to improve upon.
Danny Rodriguez and Brett-brought in the machines and workforce to make it happen!
Drew Neitzel
Mike Penney
Dick Parker
Ben Crosby
Mike Petrin
Mark Moseley
Blu Alexander
Bob Hartness
Matt Crowe
John Kirby
Demian Vela
Previous weeks leading up to over the summer-that weren't here but their contributions go far...
Beckett Carduff
Mike keizer
Ted Keith
Jose Ossa
Gary Harvey
Brett Shoffner
Doug Keehler
Matt Eklund

There are SOOOOOO many people that I can thank that this list shames me to even post it.

That being said, there is still some work to do out there, and we will be tidying it up to make sure that you enjoy a great disc golf experience, and overall enjoyment to the park that so many long for!



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