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Messages - jack

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16
Tournaments / Re: New Years Day Triples at Swope
« on: December 09, 2014, 08:51:05 AM »
That was for the Roll it back and do it over at rosedale, where you had it backwards and had to roll your first shot.  I miss that silliness.

OTTO?

Right, like Otto reads these things.....

17
Tournaments / Re: GBO question
« on: December 05, 2014, 11:43:36 AM »
See.  As I indicated it makes to do it, they will do it.  The goal is to fill the event with players, not fill the event with one division (USDGC and US WOMENS excluded)

18
General Banter / Re: I must apologize and clarify
« on: December 05, 2014, 11:34:44 AM »
....I just want to say that I think its ALL of our responsibility to grow the sport for EVERY group that might want to play, right? Not just women's responsibility to get women playing. We should be encouraging each other and others to be ambassadors and players, in my opinion.

That is very true, and I am uncertain if my tone came across that way, but this statement is SPOT on!

Rhonda is awesome!  And completely correct there are a few jerks in all situations.

Just yesterday I was told by someone that

your attitude has always seemed to be, "you should listen to me because of what i've done". and if your opinions don't line up, it could get contentious......strangely enough, i thought that about you as an event organizer until i got to know you better.....i mean, come on, you like to hear yourself talk to, but at least you're an affable conversationalist.....the best thing that i can say about you is that you respect the opinions of others (on the surface, at least)...."

It is tough having to be in charge of the entertainment, and enjoyment of many when running an event.  I know I come across as "all knowing and powerful".  I am not, but in that appearance I tend to work towards forward thinking goals that should help others.

I hope I didn't come across as though it is myway or the highway, that wasn't the intent.  The intent truly was that it isn't really the job of the TD to orchestrate the event specific to one sector of the players, but to rather increase the enjoyment factor for all the players.

The work on getting others to understand our sport at all levels is clearly on each of us to do so.

19
General Banter / Re: DD Baskets
« on: December 04, 2014, 02:36:12 PM »
^^^^^ that made me giggle.....

20
Beginners / Re: New Players League - Monday's
« on: December 04, 2014, 02:03:56 PM »
New players league in KC has been around at Rosie on Mondays for the past 15+ years.  Many a person has helped to maintain and keep it alive.  At times it may have been on a respirator, but it still continues and is a great way to get people involved.  Aaron started Thursdays a couple of years back, and it has been good as well.

The nominal $5/$6 fees at the general leagues is also a good chance to get to meet and play with people that like the sport as well as get some good tips about the sport, so even though our "leagues" aren't free, they are relatively inexpensive in the scheme of helping to improve your game and knowledge of the sport.

21
General Banter / Re: I must apologize and clarify
« on: December 04, 2014, 01:54:42 PM »
"Established fact" rings of maintaining the institutionalized "status quo" of the sport instead of growing the sport and reaching for other demographics....... Wouldn't ... to expand the sport look at opening up more spots for women, say 10% (90 players, still minimal) as a way to encourage women to sign up for the PDGA and play more competitively?

These comparisons are embarrassingly poor excuses for the reason things are a certain way. Saying things like, "well because my division was full or didn't make I had to play elsewhere." This doesn't inherently make it right for you or the other divisions. Statements like "This isn't gender bias that is being insinuated, this is a fact of the sport" show comfort with the current status of the sport instead of trying to push for growth in other demographic areas. I'm certainly not trying to be confrontational, just stating that these statements are what perpetuate status quo.

...... You mention that for women disc golf to grow that more women need to sign up for the PDGA and get more to play competitively? Couldn't the reverse argument be made that for women to sign up for the PDGA and play more competitively that opportunities need to be presented for them that exceed the current percentage of the sport?.....

I have a stronger frame of reference than most in this room.  The simple matter of it is, that I am one of a handful of people that have attempted and hosted events in excess of 900+ players.  So I speak with more authority in many respects as from a TD standpoint, not an advocate for change.  So please bear with me as I attempt to help with the ideas behind the mess in the kitchen as we keep the front of the house pretty for you to enjoy for your few rounds of golf....(some sarcasm should be notated)

The simple matter is this.  TD's will cater to those that play in events.  Women historically don't attend events in the 10% of the field range.  So in order to accommodate the field you have to balance the numbers, and quite honestly, this isn't about increasing percentages on a "Chance" they might show up, but rather as DD knows, as a business plan to cater to the patrons of the event, which are by and large 90%+ male.  Right wrong or indifferent the numbers speak for themselves, therefore you must balance the act between the following: Divisions, age protected, gender in that order when balancing the field for something of this nature.

They did it, they did it with tact, planning and maintained the balance of the membership, NOT THE ACTIVE PARTICIPATION, which in itself is forward thinking enough.

Can more be done for women's disc golf?  That question should first in my own mind be asked as to what can disc golf do to be more already?  We fight for our money in most part.  DD will do the "Large AM Players Pack" model that Myself and other KC TD's were ridiculed for, but now are more generally accepted.  Change will happen, but when it is all said and done the money for the event will primarily be on the backs of the competing players with nominal support from the event organizer (DD), and other sponsors that want to get their name in front of the largest event probably of the year.

Status quo isn't a staple to stand on, but paying attention to the demographics on what % is going to purchase, buy into, and impact our sport and the ability to get the attention out there indicates already that it will be primarily male dominated.  Now don't get me wrong, a woman that throws the disc to me looks aesthetically more appealing than the ripping that a man does, it just flows better, and it increases the "WOW" factor.  Some may remember Ruth Steele in 2003 at Swope #3 keyhole shot during the final 9 when she parked it and the entire rest of the field went "OB".  Women can compete with and just as good as men.  The problem is that they don't participate the way that men do.  That is on them, that is not on the TD of events to change the plans.  Can you make exceptions, enticements, absolutely, and many do.  I typically always had extra items for women at events I ran.  It is nice to let them know that not only do I appreciate them as a player, but more so I appreciate that they took the time to compete in our city.

The work done for an event is a tireless, thankless effort that most reading this have no idea of the long hours of labor and love for nothing in most cases happens.  To expect any rationale TD to plan on separate ways to "push the demographics" isn't fair.  Most of the TD's are happy that it goes off on time, no one is hurt, and everyone had a good time.  Worrying about the % of women at your event isn't on the list of satisfactory survey points.  It is a simple matter you want to prepare the event to have the best courses ready for the players to enjoy, and you hope it fills, and you don't lose any $$$.  Everything else is gravy.

This is quite simply in my mind people thinking that more women should play events and we should entice them to do so.  We do in many instances, but they still don't attend.  The door is always open for pointing ideas and saying this needs to be done, but my own take is this.  Get done the things that need to be done to make the event work well. 
Plan the best you can, and hope it fills and you get the numbers you want.  Hope you don't have to DQ anyone, and finally be sure to thank those that helped you.  No TD does it alone.  DD will have paid staff and volunteer staff, it is a business model for them, if it made business sense to have 90 women slots available, you know they would.  If they feel it makes sense to alter it, you know they will. 

The issue I guess I have, and trust me I am an advocate for women in our sport and often have reached out to ensure that we have women's voices on the board over the last 15 years, is that "others" need to do this to help promote it to women.  No they don't.  Women need to put it to themselves to get more of them to events to help raise those numbers.  If the numbers don't support it, why would you do it?

Most people chiming in on this thread haven't ran event, let alone one of this size, those that have ran events, know what I am speaking about, those of you that haven't......please, PLEASE, help with the Wide Open next year and see the efforts it takes.  Or start early with the Ice Bowl!

:-)

22
General Banter / Re: I must apologize and clarify
« on: December 04, 2014, 11:35:14 AM »
One last thing, I have stirred the pot a little about the GBO not having enough slots for women, which Crispian referred to.  To one thing she said, there are actually 68 spots reserved for women out of 900 slots.  20 Open, 24 advanced women, 24 intermediate women.  The intermediate women pool is full.

After further investigation, looking at the field from last year, there weren't that many women that played--the numbers reserved for women basically reflect a doubling of the women that played last year.  That's great, since the field itself is set to almost double.  See?  I told you that i jump the gun sometimes.  That said, 24 spots for intermediate/rec women is a pretty small number when there are 360 spots available for rec and intermediate men (in two divisions). 

Perfect.  The comment I made wasn't gender based, but more on the #'s you have to play.  In the past there were really no "Rec/Int" division, they all played  we all played Advanced and got beat.  Now the divisional portion of the PDGA has clearly taken off, and it does enable a TD to balance a "better placing" of individuals within the proper divisions.  But to do that you need to balance it between all divisions.  There may be EXCEPTIONS to the spots as it gets closer provided it forms within the fields/pools.  That though would happen after the initial thought process is that they are close to having another division "full" that they may choose to remove.

No intent on my end to try to speak to the club scenario in terms of the Womens golf.  I have suggested for the past decade that kansas City needs to be the HOST of the Womens Disc Golf Championship.  It is absurd that we aren't the anchor of that.  I think it is time to look at bringing that annual event to one location where we can show how much we actually to care and love the women in our sport.

23
General Banter / Re: I must apologize and clarify
« on: December 04, 2014, 11:23:09 AM »
Ugh... the GBO has an embarrassingly small amount of space for women. I think Liz was talking about wanting to sign up for intermediate women, but the division was already full. There are no KC women, whose names I recognized, that were signed up for the GBO. In particular the Intermediate Women group is already full with zero players from Missouri. This means that for an expected (read full) registration of 900 players that only 7.5% (68 - 20 open, 24 advanced, 24 intermediate) of their cap space is devoted to women players.


That is NOT a problem, that is REALITY.  That is a HIGH percentage of women planned for an event.  Most events have about 2-4% of entrants as Women.  This aligns though PERFECTLY with the Demographics of the sport, about 7% in the sport are women.  So why would you give "extra spots" when the numbers don't support it?
http://www.pdga.com/files/Disc_Golf_and_PDGA_Demographics.pdf

This notion that the GBO isn't aligning with the needs of the sport is BS.  The notion is that more women need to talk to the TD in the GBO and see if it can be altered.  They did their job, allowing the correct % of entrants to be in the field, and then based it out for availability based on the divisional codes.  The fact that one is full, well.....seriously too bad.  That happens often in some events.  Worlds sold out in 3 days.  Plan and prepare is what needs to be done.

This isn't a gender bias that is being insinuated, this is a fact of the sport.  Want more women spots, get more women to sign up for the PDGA, and get more to play competitively in events to demand that.  TD's will alter it, otherwise this clearly is an upset scenario about feeling as though they missed their divisional desires.

Guess what, I have had to play Open in many events because they were "full" in my division.  You are just feeling the pains that many men feel as well in not having the division available, or already full beforehand.  Welcome to the world of "sold out" events.

24
Leagues / Re: Waterworks Dubs 11-20-14??
« on: December 03, 2014, 12:04:54 PM »

25
Leagues / Re: Waterworks Dubs 11-20-14??
« on: December 03, 2014, 10:29:46 AM »
how did that "bye team" work out?

26
Cliff Drive / Re: Shared Use- MTBs and Disc Golf
« on: December 01, 2014, 09:43:58 AM »
the road that splits current #6 stairs out to #7.  It will become one way.  Minimal impact in all honesty to the disc golf area at this time.

27
Tournaments / Re: 2015 Ice Bowl
« on: November 25, 2014, 04:18:58 PM »
To DO List
TD's to help with the Satellite of Ice Series events (need 16 2/course, pretty close)
Generator-One that can handle about 50 crock pots
Volunteers-Need about 40 ideally, but will do with 10-15
Chili Chefs-You know who you are, you know you want to win 9I haven't since like 2005.... :'(
Sponsors for CTP's-gift certificates from your local watering/eating establishment make great prizes, typically $25 increments
Judges for the Chili Contest-need to have 3 (I have ideas, PM me if you are interested)
Coffee Jugs with Coffee
Apple SPiced Rum Cider-(Jack has been doing since Kelly and Lynne stopped-may do again)
paper needs, plates, spoons, cups, napkins, trash bags
Chili fixin's-Fritos, crackers, sour cream, onions, cheese, etc....
Deserts
More volunteers-(we can always use more)
P/A system-I-pod set up
Chili judge Sheet-(I have)
Media release-Jack and Rick to work on with added events more possible publicity this year at multiple parks!
Water-non alcoholic drinks
Alcoholic Beer-Rob M is ON THIS!
Tags for the beer-(thinking about $5 donations this year one time needed for Kegs of drinking)
Course prep-moving the "new 18" at Rosedale, and setting up the "temp pads" for the event weekend of
Chili cooks-you know we want to mention it 2x at least
Volunteers to raise money-pledge sheets to be done
Disc logo alterations to Innova for added weekend, special series stamped
Merchandise sales (see volunteers, or better yet, register early and often and get your schwag and best choice from DGW in advance)
Mulligan sheets-How many will Jack buy this year, and will he be able to sell any on the course, or will he have an abundance in his bag like last year?
Mini disc golf area-Dick Parker, this will be a challenge, but it may look like 9 holes on one side, and 9 holes on the other side of the street this year....more to come on this exciting part!
Prizes for EVERY CARD (RD 2)-KCFDC and ICEBOWL donation from DGW
of course.....

NO WIMPS, NO WHINERS, and CAN'T BE CANCELLED BECAUSE OF THE WEATHER![/font][/glow][/shadow][/glow]

I am sure there is more to this list, but I wanted to put it out there before I quit looking at the computer for the next 5 days or so except to post photos on FB land!


28
Tournaments / Re: 2015 Ice Bowl
« on: November 25, 2014, 08:54:08 AM »
The Ice Bowl is about feeding and local help.  There are a lot of other charitable opportunities for disc golf that we see out there, so though I do encourage happy bottoms, the Ice bowl should remain true to the spirit of helping to feed your local community.

29
General Banter / Re: Disc Vending Machine
« on: November 25, 2014, 08:52:09 AM »
I suggested SMP as well as it was a much "safer" park to attempt to try this at. Smithville may not be a bad location either on this.

30
Tournaments / Re: 2015 Ice Bowl
« on: November 24, 2014, 12:33:24 PM »
Yep, we need to plan a meeting soon for everyone on the "I will help at my local course, and I will help on ICE BOWL SUNDAY".

Let us all get through the Turkey day this week, as it is short for many, long for others, and just too much thinking for many to worry about the Ice Bowl right now.  We are though making great traction on getting this motor running the right direction!

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