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Messages - jack

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General Banter / Re: KCFDC noob question
« on: June 30, 2015, 09:13:57 am »
wow....close to #2000 for the club, Geez Louise ;D

General Banter / Re: KCFDC home brewers, are there any?
« on: June 30, 2015, 09:03:05 am »
Quite a few of them...quite a few....

You have been misinformed. And thanks to Nate Zier we have current agreements with PHill and Liberty. KCMO is on a three year cycle and will be renewed in September. BTW, we pay a percentage of all income recvd on KCMO courses annually. Thanks to mostly Jack the KCFDC has a pretty good relationship with KCMO P&R.

Great job Nate!

I'm thinking about signing up and only wearing a bikini and shoes.  Even Jack will tell you, you cant play in a tournament without shoes.

You need sandals.....thank god I had sandals.....

I'm in favor of requiring individuals being members in order to post in certain sections, such as Tournaments, Leagues, etc. 

Can we have a BOD member comment on the contract question - are they still current?  I was told very recently that at least the contract with KCMO has expired.

Even if expired, as long as the intent is to remain in effect, nothing really changes.  The piece of paper's expiration date doesn't dictate that the relationships between the club and municipality failed, just needs to be resigned.  There are many instances over the years where things go a few months without being "in contract" though nothing changes.  Insurance is still paid, agreements are still in place, and the knowledge that it is a working relationship between the long standing organizations is in place.

A date can be overlooked, a relationship can be ruined by those not following the protocols in place and thus jeopardizing the efforts of many by selfish acts of interests on their own.

Why again it is imperative to be on the same page as the BoD with events in KC, it keeps it cleaner in most instances.  Why the BoD has done a great job working with the multiple TD's the town offers, and businesses supporting the sport and the club.

You have been misinformed. And thanks to Nate Zier we have current agreements with PHill and Liberty. KCMO is on a three year cycle and will be renewed in September. BTW, we pay a percentage of all income recvd on KCMO courses annually. Thanks to mostly Jack the KCFDC has a pretty good relationship with KCMO P&R.

I would ask someone before just assuming what someone told you is true. Believe it or not, our partners read our board.

mjohnson : Actually the KCFDC has a record number of current members 408-ish (though many will expire at the end of the month).

I just hear arguments, but no solutions here. I have an idea: run your won events folks. Start planning now because the schedule starts filling at the January meeting.

Spot on in many areas.  It wasn't/isn't just me.  I only took the time to formalize many and countless others keep it flowing the right way.  It takes our entire community to make it work here in KCFDC land......It isn't one person, it isn't 2, it is the thousands of members, and hundreds of workers and volunteers that make it grow.

It takes all of us, like us each, hate us each, or better yet, agree to disagree, we collectively are the club.  Typing a forum is good for topics, but working to build a better sport is personal interaction.

Thanks to all who have points they want heard.  That is what makes us great as a club, and one many around the world are envious of.

We can disagree vehemently in the threads, and then go and scoop mulch together the next day, we do that because we value the courses, and sport.  We do that because we (mostly) realize we aren't bigger than the game, and we realize we are fortunate to be a part of the best disc golf community in the world.

We just aren't always afraid to speak out, and that is good as well!

kudos, so no, I am not ashamed of this thread, I think it shows the ability to drive Q&A's.....

But it is a thread drift extra size, and sorry Rob! ;D

Why I said, one section needs to always be open, people can post about other events, traveling people asking questions, etc.....there should be a way to have open access in one section that may be the "general banter" area, but the others are listed to only members for typing, but open to view for all in case you want to read about other topics.

General Banter / Re: KCFDC noob question
« on: June 29, 2015, 03:54:17 pm »
Takes a few days, but you will get a # soon!


I also think that we are at a point where possibly only those "current" members get access to post
I just sent my money.
;D :) ;)

I have been advocating for all sections with the exception of 1 be closed for years......

Membership has its privilege!

I need to correct you.  For the Matchboxx 64, I'm the TD.  DDKC is the payout.  I will not be doing any payouts myself.  It is not me or DDKC.  It is just DDKC.  For this one event, I'm the TD for a DDKC event.

Just a question - it is my understanding that the contracts between the KCFDC and various P&R's have actually expired.

If so, the KCFDC actually has lost jurisdiction as to who can and cannot use the parks for disc golf events.

Makes sense (you TD'ng for DDKC)...Uncertain, but most of the contracts are current, even if they are "delayed", as in the writing with P-Hill I believe is in process as such even without a "signed" contract a pending agreement with the City still classifies it as a "club course" for up to 18 months, and can be amended to continue in lieu of signed contract by the BoD.

Most of the contracts are current though so your understanding of that is incorrect.

The belief that the support of the local clubs trumps those of the individual allows for the Club to work in conjunction with many municipalities that work towards the betterment and development of the sport through the combined efforts of the group at large and the parks departments through which the relationships maintain.

This is why it is IMPERATIVE that people use the club when thinking about holding events, it keeps things moving in the right direction, and it also helps to ensure that people are protected at club events by the policies in place and agreements made over the past 20 years in many instances in in the past couple in others.

Matchboxx 64 (well hopefully it will be 72, I guess we'll see) is not a club event.  Neither is Chill at the Hill, Midwest Amateur Championships or the 2015 KC Mini Series which are also stickied under Tournaments.  I'm not positive, admitting that upfront, but I don't think the Trilogy Challenge or the Flippin' Sweat Tournament which are also stickied.

Jack - have you asked the original posters for those threads if their events are club events?  If not, why not?

Second - the answer regarding paying the club.  Please read the original post for this thread.  Your answer is there. Actually, it is also on the flyer (which I removed from this thread because this thread is no longer about the tournament) in very large font.

Those all pay for the club resources, I guess as long as you pay the club the money the times have changed.  P-Hill isn't a signed club course, MAC will be ran by one company....

Flippin Sweat Tourney wasn't on a KCFDC course.

My apologies Rob, I guess it boils down to me not understanding because I was told on the flier that you are charging the players to pay the club fee, I hadn't seen that portion before you yanked it down.

Hence my comments were made as such.  You didn't really answer you just said, only redeemable by me or DD KC....

Apologies didn't realize you were paying the club (or rather the players paying the fees) for the course. 

The time has come for the KCFDC to determine the best use of the events it "caters" to and determine that it may not be in the best instance to be a club but rather a facilitator of events is what I am getting at.

That isn't a "you thing" Rob, but rather something that I have been talking with people about now for quite some time.....quite some, and you may be the drift to make it happen.  Which in all honesty is pretty cool in many respects, change needs to happen to something here, because we can't continue in certain respects the way it has been done.

The KCFDC should be looking at a model to award events on Club Courses based on monetary return at this point, and only award it to those that meet certain requirements on their courses.

Only use the club services for those that "pay" (the term pay is loosely defined here in many areas) to be using it.

I also think that we are at a point where possibly only those "current" members get access to post, those TD's approved get more space, and banners on the site, and it is used as an income tool for those that comply with the standards.

I know you don't like me and you think that I always have it out for you, but that isn't really the case.  In most instances I enjoy that you are doing what you are doing, and think a lot can be learned from your adaptability and desire to go to the outliers.

But you don't want to see that way, you see it as the big man poking you.....and your events.....I see it as conversations for the next progression of the club which will be a more profit driven reality so that individuals like yourself may play in the KCFDC field, but only if paying the associated costs, and helping with the infrastructure to develop a stronger base to help with the continuation of the sport locally.

And all of that is Fine Nova, I didn't mean to take more out of it, but the basic premise was what I was getting at...

Still haven't seen an answer from Rob about Disc Golf World though not being allowed to redeem vouchers.

Really the gist of what I was getting at, and the drift is just that a drift in a forum.....

We are by most definitions a pretty light weight group of bashers and haters.....
..... For the love of the game, the simplicity of it. There should be no factors outside of what it takes to simply enjoy the game.
.......Disc golf only has ONE opponent... Yourself. No one else can beat what you throw. You throw a disc because you chose to throw it. What it does after your throw is yours to control through hard work, dedication, skill, and luck.
So... do you play to win or simply play to enjoy the game and hopefully learn to play a sport as you should?

Some very good quotes in there for certain!!!

Sorry Rob for the thread drift on the other topics that some people can't grasp
Your passive-aggressive dig at me has been noticed. That was really childish, rude, and honestly beneath you. Is this the face you want to show everyone? 
Edit: added a bit.

Huh?  What Dig are you talking about, I have no idea of what you are talking about.  I think that most will know that I am RARELY trying to mince words in here.  I pretty much speak from what I think is right.  (Again this IS MY OPINE, some agree, countless others don't I am cool with both sides.  I have changed, and will change it again.....I learn and adapt)

So I guess I have no clue WTF it is you think I am passively getting at, b/c I don't.  So if you want to enlighten me, please do, otherwise if I have something to say, trust me I will say it.

This was a mention that we are now discussing things not related to the event, hence my comment.  If you think it was meant for you, meh ok, otherwise the bigger issue is why (to me) we are alienating the longest supporting business of the club at a club event.....of which there is still no answer from the TD about....

This thread makes me embarrased to be a part of the KCFDC.  Anyone else?

No its good discussion about topics that should be addressed in the wrong place.  Why I tried to get it back on topic, but instead of answering a direct question you want to remove it.....

If we can't discuss the fact that you can't cry (I do use this as inflamatory) you want "be treated fairly" but only in the instances where it benefits the group I support as a determent towards a balanced divisions then the issue is of sexual segregation.

Is that what we want?  We want all people in disc golf to have "their place" but we really want to be catered to fill the spot we want.  And hey I get it, I am an old bitter man that wants his age protected, division protected place in the sport....but when it isn't offered, I don't make a fuss as "why not include me".  Playing as a pro/am, whatever you step up and play if you want to.

The notion that divisional ratings make it appealing is also making it so you think you know how good you are.....ratings are a biased way of supporting a finite result on certain parameters that in most instances aren't accurate.

Just like a TD can make decisions on changing things.   I am not going to chastise Rob for changing things, but what if he doesn't get 8 women and now his event isn't as he had hoped?

We can have discussions, they can be varying points of views, and it shouldn't all be taken personally.


But enough about that, I am really wondering how this event can be "club sponsored" yet alienate the longest supporting business of Disc Golf to the club personally.  I have a much bigger beef with that than any of this other crapola that people are talking about.

Back on topic of the event please.  Sorry Rob for the thread drift on the other topics that some people can't grasp, can I get a reason why a Club event won't be allowed to use their earnings at all KCFDC locations that honor it?

It is appropriate in every conversation, especially apparently on the current social media.  I wasn't singling anyone out.  It is an issue though, as you stated in the comments and articles you quote, if a "man" as you see it is always better, than switching genders shouldn't be allowed as an unfair tactic.  Wasn't my intent to drag that conversation into the comments, but is truly something that as we move forward with "equal rights vs. Special rights" where will the line be drawn?  That though shouldn't be the topic here, you just felt it needed to be hit on, I was just going with the flow, again wasn't my intent to discuss that, as it is an other issue in its entirety.

The fact remains it was decided by the Board to remove the "holding spots" of age, and sex.  Board decision, made based on complete lack of participation from the women in the local scene to attempt to balance a team.

But enough about that, I am really wondering how this event can be "club sponsored" yet alienate the longest supporting business of Disc Golf to the club personally.  I have a much bigger beef with that than any of this other crapola that people are talking about.

No one is excluded from the East vs. West Challenge. Everyone has the same opportunity to qualify and play. It's OPEN for anyone and everyone.
This position ignores a fact which can be easily observed simply by looking at the score results of every single competitive disc golf event in memory, that men consistently out-perform women in the sport. The effect of this policy is to exclude women. ....

The effect of the policy was to have only the BEST players that qualified REGARDLESS of AGE, gender, or sexual has nothing to do with exclusion of ANYONE, yet you interpret it that way based on observations (really perceptions) that women aren't as good.  WRONG, there are many women better than I, and I understand it.  It just appears as though those women better than (whom didn't make the team, or attempt to play on it) I chose not to attempt to qualify and therefore didn't participate in the E v. W.

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