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Messages - jack

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4231
Water Works / Re: 04/08/10 Water Works Mini
« on: April 09, 2010, 09:52:51 AM »
You only wish you could have the force.

"I know Mike Keizer"

4232
Rosedale / Re: Rosedale League Results : 4-7-10
« on: April 08, 2010, 02:16:22 PM »
it looked like a good game though from teh phone on the poker table last night...should help to build some confidence.

4233
Rosedale / Re: WANTED: Frank "The Face"
« on: April 08, 2010, 10:16:37 AM »
Since you can only post pictures as a web link on this site, I then had to scan it on my printer so I could upload it to my t-mobile album where it creates a mini-web site for each pic... that's all.

Thats all you had to say!
not-so-shameless plug!
 ;D ;D 8) 8) :D :D

4234
General Banter / Re: Should we pay to have professional disc golfers?
« on: April 07, 2010, 03:19:36 PM »
not really a thread drift, because it does help to boil down to some perceptions that people have about "pro players".  We have been fortunate that we have had players who are considered our "local pros" that have helped many times, do they do it to the tune that the regulars do when it boils down to it?  Probably not, but as a person that has worked on damn near all the courses in town I can tell you that most have taken time out to show up and help at least once.  The problem is that our courses are in need to constant attention because we do not have a greens keeper paid on staff with a crew to make it look good.  Its a labor of love, and some people love it more than others.

I personally know of one disc golfer that has been working on his own course lately and called to thank me for the conversations we had about design, and the thrill that he gets from knowing the work he does on the course will get appreciated by others.  I feel that same love in all of our courses.  we are spoiled.  We have the best selection of courses minus a few items (we don't have mountains, the ocean is not close by, volcanoes are not heavily saturated in the KC area.....SMithville says it will plan some water on the course....) across the country.

The acknowledgement of paying to have experts in disc golf rather it be as a player, a designer, an official, a tournament director is something foreign to our sport, and it MUST change if we plan to move our sport into the areas that some of these conversations are going.

The reason I started this thread was to get people to start to think about disc golf as a more professional sport, and get a taste of what the flavor is from the most ardent.  If you are reading this, guess what, your opinion means squat to me, wanna know why? :o

YOU ALREADY LOVE THIS SPORT, OR YOU WOULDN'T BE READING THIS! :-*

Now what we need to do is colloectively continue to discuss what people need to do on a local, regional, national, international level to help us get there.

Grassroots is a great place to start.  We need to figure out though how to attract those sponsors, its not just about having a good salesman, its about having a good product that will entice others to want to emulate those that they see.  This is why we need to have professionals in all disciplines or we sell ourselves short.

We need to collectively get on the same page, and that is part of the reason that I would like to be on the PDGA BOD, to see what I can say and do from my personal experiences to make it work.

I do disagree with Tank that we will have an entire BOD of Pro Players (thinking of the inmates running the hospital here), but I think that all voices should be heard and taken in to some consideration for what is best for our sport and how to use our past experiences to drive future results.

I think personally that we already pay disc golfers to play, I also think that their talent level is extremely under valued, and wish I had an answer to solve the issue.  I don't, but I do believe that we can come up with a way collectively to make it happen in our lifetime.

We need all of your help.

This is not to say that we as players should always pay the pro, but if we can create enough interest with our venues ( 79,326 players individually played in PDGA events, an increase of 9.5%) and add on some money to showcase our Major events to the tune of $1, adding in an additional $70,000 to the Worlds would then start to have a $50,000 payday for one person as a possibility.  That would draw the attention of the weird news folks, and then start to garner more media attention to a sport that is growing close to 10%/year over the last decade.

With memberships already in excess of 14,000 annually, we would/shuold start to see this as a group that has income to spend.

This aligns closely with my own thinking of Worlds where we must treat it as a convention, and put it in locations that will feel our financial impact, and give us incentive to host our events, instead of us begging for support and the ability to close a park, we would then charge admission to visit the event!

4235
Water Works / Re: 04/01/2010 Water Works Mini
« on: April 07, 2010, 12:23:23 PM »
kcfo, we were the ghost card on 1 and had 3 groups in front of us.

Then that practice needs to stop when you have 50 people for league, you can't cater to everyone, some of you have to start walking the hills early.  Not saying its your fault at all Leo, but its something needs to be looked at for league play.  You can't have 3 cards tee off from 1 with that many people.  Especially when you have people starting on 16 they will catch you, it makes no sense, and in this case, I may give Ryan a pass.

With that many people you must start on a different hole for everyone.  People at WW, don't wanna start on 16 to run into people a few holes into the night.

Point taken Jack. Won't happen again! I didn't double up at all two weeks ago and on one only last week, I know I didn't put three cards there though. Peeps will just have to get used to walking. Some us need the exercise anyhow...

Ahem.....point taken, I'll start walking! ;D

4236
Cliff Drive / Re: 4/5/10 League Mini
« on: April 07, 2010, 12:17:26 PM »
Is Cliff the windiest course in KC?  WYCO might be close.  At least half of the holes at Cliff you get some wind block.

From the trial runs we have had on Smithville...I can tell you for a fact that we will have some wind to contend with...even on calm days.

Nothing like looking down the mouth of the 950' plus beast with water on one side, OB on the other and killer wind in your face.

Luckily, if that scares you too much, you can always step over to the next less scary course!

Dan  :o :o :o

The question was is it the windiest in town......Smithville is not even a course yet......so its right out.

I personally think that WyCo has more wind, and I have played WyCo in far windier conditions than Cliff was in on Monday.

Cliff does get its fair share, as it sits in about the highest point in the city on the south side of the river, and then drops off quickly to the river.

By the same tokken though, BLue Valley gets its fair share as it is another spot that is high elevation on the way to the river.....

Played some fiercely windy rounds out there as well.

Bottom line, those silly little lakes in Smithville may create a little wind, but Tornadoes pass over the other courses, and my thought is that is the most wind we shall see....

4237
Prairie Center / Re: 04-05-10 MINI
« on: April 07, 2010, 09:21:04 AM »
spoken like a bitter KU fan.......at least a team in blue won huh?

Lets see....thats 4 titles for Duke in the last 20 years....how many for KU?  8 Chances for them.....how many for KU?

4238
General Banter / Re: Should we pay to have professional disc golfers?
« on: April 07, 2010, 09:18:03 AM »
Jack, do you think it would be reasonable for the PDGA just to run events and promoting disc golf to the general public, and for a "players union" type organization represents the Pro players and their interests, work on fund raising, etc?  I tried to make a point like this on the PDGA board at some point last year, but it fell on deaf ears.

I think that you are missing one huge point.  The PDGA is only its members.  Its not a large organization ran on the funding of the members, it is the members.  That is why you can not say, why doesn't the PDGA do this or that.  THe bottom line, I am the PDGA, you are the PDGA, so only if you do these things, will they happen.

in regards to the low am payin-payout, it makes sense if people will pay.  In KC we have historically given out more on the players pack than in the payout to am's, so that everyone leaves with some good schwag to take home.  Some people like it, others think its silly.

I for one, as an AM THAT DOES NOT WIN, enjoy getting something for my $50 in an advanced field.  Now by the same token, I think that the $75 am entries are just to Freaking high.  I think that as an am entry should never exceed $50 for the event (Pdga fees, local fees, and ace funds can go above this, but base pay should not exceed $50).  I also think that the PDGA should offer Am memberships to events that have over 25 in the field in that division, it should be deducted from the payout, but shuold be a donation for A-Tiers and above.

So having plastic as prizes is a good thing in my mind, but overloading it to be only performance based in the amatuer ranks is a bad thing in my mind.

4239
General Banter / Re: Should we pay to have professional disc golfers?
« on: April 06, 2010, 02:32:50 PM »
If they want to start a private club of Professionals and earn gold jackets, they might first address their conduct.   Some of our current professionals carry on like infants in the public eye (just ask anyone watching the final round at the Memorial).    

Excellent point.  You want to get paid like a professional, start acting like one first.  There are some fine examples of professional disc golfers, that do behave well, but like any sport there are good and worthless people.....

4240
General Banter / Re: Should we pay to have professional disc golfers?
« on: April 06, 2010, 10:41:33 AM »
Careful there, that was my next point...... ;D

4241
General Banter / Re: another win
« on: April 05, 2010, 04:47:37 PM »
I guess thats your way of admitting I'm right. Thanks for agreeing.

I think that's his way of saying quit your whining.

Thanks for spelling that out to him.....

4242
General Banter / Re: Should we pay to have professional disc golfers?
« on: April 05, 2010, 04:45:14 PM »
I enjoy watching the pros but if I had to pay more for them to be able to play more I would be against it. Because then I would have to play less just to afford it. ......So if a pro wants to make more, it should be up to the pdga getting sponsorships as well as the pro marketing his or herself to potential sponsors.

Ok, so the PDGA is a body of about 5 office staff, and paid volunteers.  How do you get them to work on this?

Would it be too much to ask each player to pony up say $3 to a pro fund?  Then the PDGA fees would essentially double based on the event, or is it solely up to the player to drive this result?

last time I checked, LeBron (insert any athlete there) didn't go out and get his sponsors, they came to him and his entertainment group to offer money for his naming rights.

We are not there, so therfore we already subsidize to a point even from a manufacturers sponsored players (we buy their plastic, they make money, they sponsor the players that they want), do we go the next step and offer to help prop up our sport in the hopes of other sponsors willing to take the risk on our sport by subsidizing the players initially?

4243
Water Works / Re: 04/01/2010 Water Works Mini
« on: April 05, 2010, 03:33:46 PM »
kcfo, we were the ghost card on 1 and had 3 groups in front of us.

Then that practice needs to stop when you have 50 people for league, you can't cater to everyone, some of you have to start walking the hills early.  Not saying its your fault at all Leo, but its something needs to be looked at for league play.  You can't have 3 cards tee off from 1 with that many people.  Especially when you have people starting on 16 they will catch you, it makes no sense, and in this case, I may give Ryan a pass.

With that many people you must start on a different hole for everyone.  People at WW, don't wanna start on 16 to run into people a few holes into the night.

4244
General Banter / Re: Should we pay to have professional disc golfers?
« on: April 05, 2010, 03:23:17 PM »
The question in my mind is shuold we pay to have professional disc golfers.  We do so now, they are not paid enough in sponsorship dollars to make a decent living, yet we are constantly playing with our own little community money (entry fees mostly).

So if we have already agreed to fees, do we need to increase our fee structure to pay for people to truly get paid and be a "professional disc golfer".  Does it come with an additional entry fee attached to tournaments?  Is it in a Pro/Am charity event before tournaments?  Do we say screw it, its a recreational game only?

The questions are weak intentionally to create discussion.  I am not looking for a finite answer, I am looking for what our local community thinks about the pro player, and how do we doa  better job of financing their livelihood in order for us to have more of them, or should we quit worrying about this notion of players getting paid to do a sport?  (it seems to work in other sports though)  Do we charge admission to events?  Do we just go with fund raising events/. (Fuzzy pony raised $2000, what if that was a disc golf fund raiser event for the event only, 50 people, average $40 extra, would that EVER happen at a tournament, that said, lets see where we end up over the event?)

So let the conversation start, which it has, and go with where YOU FEEL the question is, not whats the meaning of the question, the question is truly, whats the meaning of your answer.....

4245
General Banter / Re: New course at 165th and Antioch?
« on: April 05, 2010, 03:12:41 PM »
COurse is closed to public play during school.

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