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Messages - jack

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4291
Club Archives / Re: Par-how to define @ Worlds
« on: August 21, 2008, 02:48:21 PM »
[/quote ]

So the sport may never change because it is sort of an unsolvable problem.  But it is interesting to talk about and theorize solutions. 
[/quote]

Agreed.

4292
Club Archives / Re: Par-how to define @ Worlds
« on: August 21, 2008, 01:17:46 PM »
There are no Par 2's, nor should there be IMO, and the rest of the PDGA.  They tried this in 2001, and abolished it in 2002.

The minimum par is 3, as it should be.  Even though I agree with many points, the simple fact is that you have to allow a shot (drive), an attempt to get to the "green" (see my earlier comment) and then a chance to make it.  I personally feel as though the "green" should be about 2-2.5x what it currently is, somewhere between 60-75' should be considered the green.

And Par for competition is required, though it is not as important because ultimately score matters, but in the absence of a player, our rules are set in place to allow for the standard.  That is why you see more inflated pars at larger events.  It punishes a player for missing a hole that maybe more difficult to achieve a 3 on in normal play, hence the 4-5's that show up on courses that you would not normally think of.  Why cliff drive has a par 4 on long 13, a normal player may go OB and end up with a 6 relatively ok, and then have a player show up late and only gain one stroke, not fair.  Having that player take an 8 though is much more fair, and punishable accordingly.

17 at WyCo, I have seen 3's there by a few people, Hemmeline almost got a 2 (Freaking lefty lines on that hole with his arm are sick!)  I however am always glad to get a 4, and feel that it is a par 4, one to get past the trees, one to get up closer, then I should be on the fringe of the green and have 2 shots (my green here not 10 meters).

You could also throw out all of this and go strictly on distance, and create a standard that way.  There have been many comments and suggestions on par, do seom research not only in here, but also the PDGA forum for more questions to lead to more questions, to lead to more questions, to more dicsussions, to more questions, and well were back where we started (as Ray Daives would say)

4293
Club Archives / Re: Par-how to define @ Worlds
« on: August 21, 2008, 12:32:06 PM »
par+4 not 3

4294
Club Archives / Par-how to define @ Worlds
« on: August 21, 2008, 09:33:01 AM »
The topic in the other thread is giong adrift.

I personally think that the way that Par is designed is inherent with faults.  We have differing viewpoints on what it should be, but yesterday there was a topic that I was reading that hit it right on the head.
Mark Ritner  wrote:
>
> "The real reason for the ridiculous scoring relative to ball golf:
putting is way easier in disc golf."That depends on what you define as
a "putt". Shots from the 10 meter line are the equivalent of 4-5 ft.
putts in ball golf. To get similar scoring distributions to ball golf
greens we can simply define our "green" and thereby our "putts" in
such a way as the pro player should take 1-2 shots to get in the
basket without error. A "green" thereby becomes, say, a 150 ft.
circle around a basket without obstacles. The "green" shrinks as
obstacles are introduced. Once we have the proper definition in place
by which to make a parallelism putting in disc golf suddenly isn't any
easier than ball golf."

I am not sure that I agree with the 150' analogy, but the point made is something that I have always thuoght of.  I have long considered the 10 meter line a good barometer, but not a true"green".  I have always felt that a 30' radius should be available to the player, but not as a green, but because it is close enough that it should be open for them to have a chance.  THat doesn't mean that I feel that it is the same as a 4-5' putt, but more like a 10' foot putt.....

What are your true thoughts on Par folks.  The argument probably has been going on longer than you haev been playing this sport.......

4295
General Banter / Disc Golf Wrestler out in Olympics
« on: August 20, 2008, 06:41:23 PM »
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/content/olympics/story.aspx?content_id=0933e299-299c-4cb4-87f8-43569232cd80

I played with Ben last year at the Mid America, he was my partner.....we finished as well as he did alone in the olympics.....bad week to draw me as a partner.......even worse week to draw the guy he lost to though.....

4296
Just trying to get people involved.

4297
Tournaments / Re: Lion's Den Open VI - August 23rd 2008
« on: August 20, 2008, 12:14:35 PM »
Needing Mini Baskets, who has ';em?  Who can bring them?

Need to work on the area by #8....

4298
This has little to do with the meeting.  Par will be intact with our courses as is the case.  We know what it is, and will make it accordingly.  We will not artificially change par to make it go up or down.   Deal with it.

Now come to the meeting to help, don't spout in the forum, lets get some action, and meet the pavement with your feet and make a difference.

After this meeting, very little will be in the discussion room about the worlds, and only those in the special group thread will have access to the information that is being discussed.

Join the crowd, make a difference, and learn how to really help. (in person not online!)

Sorry, but very few people are really showing me that they want to help by actually putting forth the effort. 

It starts NOW, it actually already started, but we are willing to pick you up at the next stop if you are ready to board!!


4299
Tournaments / Re: Lion's Den Open VI - August 23rd 2008
« on: August 19, 2008, 05:30:07 PM »
Angie, you can gladly come and have beers first then play the Wonderful [/b] Cliff Drive.

4300
Found and Lost / Re: 10x roc at WW
« on: August 19, 2008, 02:20:57 PM »
it was white, then painted red to be disguised, then someone painted it yellow...and now its lost...... ??? :o

4301
WYCO / Re: ACE ALERT!!! Wyco League results: Aug 8, 2008
« on: August 18, 2008, 04:22:33 PM »
bring a case of beer, and save the $$ for the USDGC, then come back home and have a winners party for your performance there!!!!!!

4302
Shawnee Mission / Re: PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN HOW TO HOLD ON TO TRASH
« on: August 18, 2008, 04:06:01 PM »
I was thinking that notifyinhg the park that there needs to be some trash cans, (close to the road so they don't have to work as hard) may be a step in the right direction.  Nice to hear that some of the trash is non-alcohol related.....

4303
Blue Valley / Re: Course Re-configuration
« on: August 18, 2008, 01:14:21 PM »
Basically there are items that many people are unaware of in regards to the land, and what plans there are in the future.  It is still in its infancy, people are attached to it, and by all means those that have spearheaded it from its early days need to be counseled with those that want to make some changes.

A Reconfiguration at the course is not really realistic, but some tweaking that would make the course more representative of challenges that players need can be done hopefully minimally and then also creating an even better venue.

No changes at this point will be in play until after I have a chance to work it out with others in the process.

Thanks,

Jack

4304
Club Archives / Next Meeting Tuesday August 26th @ River Market @ 7:00
« on: August 18, 2008, 12:52:28 PM »
We will discuss the most recent worlds, and other items.

We need you there to help.

We had planned a night this upcoming Monday, with me running league, I don't want to start late.

Lots of good from K-Zoo, looking to improve in some areas, and steal from them in others.

You can help make history, and it starts now!!!

Thanks,

Jack


4305
General Banter / Re: donations for locks at wyco
« on: August 18, 2008, 12:37:40 PM »
I would think the parks dept has insurance for stolen park equipment.

They typically do not, and the price of having a basket replaced at $500 would negate most deductibles....

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