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Messages - jack

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Winter Leagues / Re: Homie league
« on: January 26, 2010, 11:27:20 AM »
Page #3 on this thread has this information.

General Banter / Re: Best Course between here and Chicago?
« on: January 26, 2010, 10:00:43 AM »
West lake is least out of your way.  Ewing is not too far off the path.  Big Creek/Walnut are way out of your way.  ANother fine course if you go the north route is in Newton Maytag park, like a mini WW.  Lamoni either course is great to play.  Mokena in the SW Chgo area is a good park as well, I prefer Chanahon (off of I-80 SW of Joliet, basically I-55 and I-80)

Winter Leagues / Re: Homie league
« on: January 26, 2010, 09:57:15 AM »
Glover is correct.  Homie is ALWAYS AT 9:00 am.

Rosedale / Re: DU today @ 2:30?
« on: January 21, 2010, 02:54:56 PM »
you gotsta start somewhere!

Rosedale / Re: My first ACE...kinda
« on: January 20, 2010, 04:13:18 PM »
and both of those you are throwing downhill at the baskets, or across a little valley, but downhill nonetheless.  I still remember Jack Black from MN throwing an MRV at #9 and parking it back in like 2001.....

General Banter / Re: Please behave in our parks
« on: January 20, 2010, 03:14:38 PM »

This is why we should NEVER do work in the park without notifying and working with the P&R first.  On first read, it really sounds as though that no one had an advocate on the P&R to ensure that everyone was up to speed on this project.

Please never do any work in the parks with out proper information to all levels.  This not only includes the local municipalities P&R, but also local neighborhood associations that may have a vested interest in the area that we may be using.

We are blessed by the countless people that have worked with the P&R in all of our partnerships, lets make sure that we keep that moving forward!

Tournaments / Re: 28th Annual Wide Open - Countdown to 30
« on: January 20, 2010, 02:03:47 PM »
I would actually like to see the 2011 and 2012 KCWO go to a format with separate Am and Pro weekends. I think it would help in recruiting volunteers from each group to help with the other event.

I think that idea has some merit for sure, and I know it has been talked about.  It really follows the NT format much better as well.  Have the Am event the weekend before, and then maximize the Pro the next.  It hurts in some traveling issues, but it helps locally not to strain as much, but you also have a bunch more work to do as it is 2 events instead of 1.

Rosedale / Re: My first ACE...kinda
« on: January 20, 2010, 01:56:26 PM »

.... Your rounds must be terribly disappointing.

I have only 3 aces to my credit even though I've been playing basket disc golf for 25 years.

Hmmm, thinking about swope. Unfortunately I don't really know where all the shorts are on that course.  Where are the short pins on #12, #13, #16? are they truly ace shots?  anything that is greater than say 350ft and doesn't allow a clean hyzer or straight-to-hyzer shot isn't an ace possibility in my game.


Ok, enough badmouthing my game there Mister! ;D  Yes I am often disappointed by my game!

Well I think that I am at 9 now, and first played in 1978, started playing on chains in 1983, and got my first ace in 1999.....

#12, just past the tree line, downhill, slightly over probably like 290', curiously enough this was my first Ace in October on 1999, back when the Dobie was there, as were all the trees protecting the basket, up away, and pad not as close to the old fence.  All my knucklehead friends were throing acorns at me as well as I threw it in!

#13, short pad just to the short pin, prolly like ~260'

#16 short is like 280'

I think that you can get Swope down under 3900' if you play it right.  Or get it close to 8400' on the Gold layout.

I have had to set it up pretty short for quite a few work functions and team buildings, so it can play pretty darn simple.

An for many people, an Ace is just a bad shot that got lucky is what I have been told.  Your analogy of drop in shots is the best planning!

Rosedale / Re: My first ACE...kinda
« on: January 19, 2010, 04:10:23 PM »
How many courses that hold doubles have 18 holes that are realistic ace attempts, even in their shortest layout? answer:  Zero

Actually this argument was brought up after a round of the then doubles league at Swope where everything was set up short, and I would argue that there was actually 18 aces possible, so this was what was at the crux of the argument.

You are right though sir, it is a fun argurment.  Except for Nazi' Keizer, and Hippy Dick..... ;D

Rosedale / Re: My first ACE...kinda
« on: January 19, 2010, 01:45:30 PM »
And that line of thinking is fine as well, but I think that if I want to pay extra I should get two shots at helping my game.  Every team gets two shots, but each person only gets one throw....but if I want to improve my chances, you can bet I'llpay 2x if allowed.  If you don't allow it, then the point has been decided.

I still think that you shuold be allowed the oppt to have 2 shots every throw, just that the Ace Fund is simply the first shot thrown from the tee.  You can, CAN your second shot, get money from the people on the card, but not the ace fund is all that I am saying.

Rosedale / Re: My first ACE...kinda
« on: January 19, 2010, 01:23:31 PM »
then why can't I pay double at each league and play two rounds thus giving me an extra shot on every hole?

Muscle memory comes into play, and having 2 throws for every shot is an extremely unfair advantage.  

Though you say an emotional response to the pot build, its still a significant amount of money that each person builds, and then one person gets 36 shots at instead of 18 like the rest of the playing field.

The bottom line is that the determination was made years ago, and I for one thought that it made the most sense.  None of this 1/2 the pot, really boiled down at that time IMO to why should anyone get 36 shots at an ace fund, when everyone else gets 18.

I agree Ace's do not fall outta trees, but given a chance to go at baskets 36 instead of 18 you just increased my chances over EVERYONE, how fair is that?

Its not fair to the rest of the entire field that one person gets the extra chance at an ace on top of the extra throws as well.  Or is it?  If its me, you all are loving my money.....if its Hemme, its unfair, so if its unfair for Master Hemme (just an example) it should be unfair for all.

Hence the decision was made in years past, and the rule about Cali-Aces for the KC club events was set up, and is continued forward in today's world.

Those of you on the EC can bring it up for a vote to change it, the rest of minions will do as minions do. ;D

Smithville / Re: Smithville Disc Golf Complex
« on: January 18, 2010, 03:28:23 PM »
I do like dual tees, the problem is they are significantly more expensive than multiple pins, which often work just fine in adding the variety to the course.

Actually with the price of Cashen Sleeves at $40, and a tee pad at ~$125, its somewhat more, but not alot any more.... and some P&R have concrete on site that is left over that they can use for really their labor, that they would pay for the sleeve, so, it boils down to what people want out there.

Dual tees is something that currently only Thornfield has in town, and Ted's.  Seems silly that the private courses are the only ones with alternate pads (Down Under as well).....

Smithville / Re: Smithville Disc Golf Complex
« on: January 18, 2010, 03:20:01 PM »
we have lost many of the "pitch and putt" courses that many of us grew up playing, trying to compete with the Blue Valley's of the World, the Swope Gold's, the Tipped out thing is fun for the few that can throw it far, but to get interest, you need to build that fun course that I played and remember how bad we were feeling, you start small.

Blue Valley's Executive course went in first you know....start with things that family's can use, especially in that family friendly park, and then the more advanced players will also come to play, and help.  Realize that most of the players that will support our sport are not throwing the disc 300' on average.  We are sorely missing an opportunity to continue to build courses with the "newbie" in mind.

My next course at Cliff Drive, if approved, will be a lot shorter, with a couple of exceptions, and is probably what I should have done first, except that the land was not approved for usage, so I went where I was given the land to work.

You start with the small course and build it up.

Think Yates.....great example, started small, continues to grow.

Smithville / Re: Baskets Made In USA!!!!!!!!!!!!
« on: January 18, 2010, 03:13:27 PM »
The yellow band is also known as visual pollution in some park minds, so they are not as fan friendly as the the DGA.  The DGA Mach III is WAY better than the Mach V, and the Innova battle over basket is really a preference, as to what you like.

The Titan from Gateway is personally probably about the best basket on the market in all honesty.  I am not a big Gateway fan, and then I do not know about the longevity of the baskets.  Personally the DGA obviously do wear better (Olathe's have been painted, and rust is noticable in some areas), and Rosie gets 2-3x the traffic as Olathe and the baskets have held up fine with the exception of vandals, which is not a design flaw.

Innova with all the extra chains is a pretty darn good target, but the price point really coems in at the Mach III.  It may be the purist in me, but the DGA baskets have been the first "baskets" I played on and have always been solid.  The longevity and maintenance in over 30 years of playing has been minimal, and the manufacturer has always done a great job of supporting local people to help design, and implement courses.

Innova does a good job with their merchandise, but their reach to locals to help people stay connected where designs come in, is not nearly as strong as DGA's.  I have been givne moer heads up over the years from them than I have Innova.  Both have done a great job of supporting us locally though, so either one is ok, but my preference and any course that I work on will almost always have DGA Mach III's until they come up with a better entrapment device (which our sport desperately needs in my mind).

I'll continue to support all of disc makers, and Innova knows that I have bought enough Valkyries and Classic Roc's, ROc's, Aviar's, Destroyer's, Arch Angels, Vikings (Yeah I said CJ's putter!), Gazelle's, etc...  to pay for a dang course, and their profit margins on the discs has to be better!

Rosedale / Re: My first ACE...kinda
« on: January 18, 2010, 01:10:31 PM »
Regular Cali wouldn't have 2 shots from every lie, but double Cali would. With double Cali you are also paying two entry fees. So, in that case, since you are paying as two people I would think you should get two cracks at the ACE fund. Assuming of course that you payed double ACE as well.

Here is the way that the meeting took place a few years back, ok almost a decade ago.

With a Cali player, double Cali we'll say for the sakes of argument here, you get 2 attempts at each hole, which is 1 more than any other player.  For ACE FUND PURPOSES ONLY, any second shot that the same player throws shall not constitute an actual "Club Ace Fund Payout"  You already had a chance with the first throw to get it in, as did the remainder of the entire divisions.  It is an ACE FUND.  A Hole in ONE throw fund, not a hole in as many throws as it takes me fund.

The ace fund is determined by the initial throw of a player teeing off from the assigned pad for that particular location that the basket is located.  Single Cali (Heil Keiser's comment) is not again the FIRST THROW ON THE HOLE, which is what all aces are considered.  At all leagues, your first attempt is your only attempt to seek ace fund money.  Though you may have the option to pay double to win the take home money for the day, you still only get 18 shots to get the ace fund money, not 36.  If this were the case, why couldn't everyone just pay double, take 2 drives every shot and try it?

This only occurs in the doubles events that we have, and is small consideration for the rest of the playing time.  The simple matter is that you have an ace fund where EVERYONE gets 18 CHANCES to get an ACE.  Some people get 36 CHANCES to card a 1 on the scorecard, but only 18 to get an ACE as everyone else playing does.  You want to pay double to get an extra throw to win the money on the night, go for it, but you are not paying double to hit an ace fund.

It has been that way for close to 10 years now.  I think that this conversation took to the order of business back in 2001 where the EC made the determination that you only get 18 chances to hit an ace regardless of how much money you pay.  As for paying $5, I think that it is worth $5 to seee someone throw the disc in basket, so I would pay the $5, and also chide them incessently for missing their first shot the rest of the round.  But then wouldn't you expect that from me?

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