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Messages - jack

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Tournaments / Re: PDGA Rules ?
« on: August 06, 2014, 08:42:34 AM »
We had a guy named Charlie that was legally blind play quite a bit until his passing.  He used to have his nephew (I believe) go up to the basket and wave a white towel.

He played in the worlds here when I ran it back in 2003.  He actually played probably about 3-5 times a week.

Tournaments / Re: PDGA Rules ?
« on: August 05, 2014, 03:33:41 PM »
Very few rules are allowed to change, and even less with regards to day of changes.  A few items can be done in the effort of safety provided players play the same ruling in the same division or grouping.

Otherwise a letter from the PDGA and announcements in advance need to be made in order to alter the rules.

This weekend wasn't accurate of what should take place if that is the reference point.

Claring is OLD!  ;D

Nothing prevents him from playing in the event accordingly, look at quite a few of the top players there.  Many "pros" were playing in this event, because the rules allow them to.

It raises the level of competition to a certain respect as well, playing with Claring (personally one of the better guys out there and a very good golfer) will only improve your own mental fortitude to prepare to play at the next level which is really what I think that this event is striving for.

I agree, and I am guilty.  The fact remains, that we played a version of the courses that we never had, it was well planned and meticulous in so many areas, it needs to be said that a lot was done right, and the rest is going to be chalked up as a learning experience that I am confident will be repaired as they continue to improve the events and our experiences.

Although i will again state....SCOTT handled it professionally, and listened, and encouraged information about the situation.  I would encourage you to talk with him about as well, as I know personally he listens and works hard to improve the experience.  He has proven that over the past 2+ years that he has worked hard to earn himself a wonderful reputation in our community.

This is a public forum. Outside of the limited set of rules for language/personal info/etc you can post what you want. I'm just regurgitating what Loomis said to us.  Might as well ban smoking/vapor too though.

Loomis made many comments that weren't directly from the TD, hence an issue I had before I threw disc one.  Also my posting here was directly aimed at him, not DD or the TD as I had candid conversations about this.

This is one issue that I had that I couldn't get over was his inability to admit error in the comments he was giving us in a most unprofessional manner.

I will say it again, I have been playing for about 35 years now, and NEVER have I felt that abused, upset and angry before I threw a disc at an event.  I knew that what he was spewing was wrong, and his effacing of the rules was just something that as a TD of multiple Worlds, TD for multiple NT's, as a former PDGA Marshal, and finally as an ambassador of disc golf in Kansas City just made me sick.  Hence my comments.

Blue Valley / Re: Earn your Green Frees.
« on: August 05, 2014, 11:29:57 AM »
I had to alter league, but I think that they had fun.

Throwing after #9 on the short from the "diamond" on the water over to #3 short has always been a favorite of mine with little risk, it is just fun to play.  I heard Zeke put it by the pin on that one.

If we can do it on Wednesday I can still help as well.

Actually let me change that....

Cliff Drive / Re: Cliff drive League Night 8/4/14
« on: August 05, 2014, 10:10:05 AM »
On the short course, I agree, I forgot how they weren't flush.

Cliff Drive / Re: Work day Saturday August 8&9 at Cliff Drive
« on: August 05, 2014, 09:53:25 AM »
I will be out there early on Saturday and probably later on Sunday.

We really at this point will be needing extra hands working on the following areas:

Here is the list of the work that needs to be done.  It is a COMPREHENSIVE LIST, so please don't think that we will be getting all of this done, but we shall try right?

Hole #1-weed eat, and trash clean up
New holes #1 and #2-remove Honeysuckle, clear out ravine of cut limbs from last weekend, complete trail, and continue to work on teeing area on #2 and expansion on the first green area.  This will require most of the work.

This Saturday I will be working with a couple of folks from Danny Rodriguez company at clearing out and making the new holes accessible more for all.  It will be a wonderful thing, and will enable us to move forward with new designing work at Cliff, and will be ready to go for the LDO-(and league on Monday!)

Hole #2-Mow the grass, clean up around green on the long placement.
Hole #3-weed eat around the side of the hill, weed eat around the pin placement, and expose the rock removing at the roots if possible the honeysuckle.  Work with P&R on getting the downed tree removed from the teeing area.
Hole #4-mow the fairway, and the side of the hill on the short placement
Hole #5-mow the front fairway, and the top green areas, and remove the downed Paw-paw trees
Hole #6-mow the fairway, and remove the downed tree.  That can be placed behind the basket down the ravine as we fill that with debris for better erosion control.
Clear better swath out of the woods towards #7 pad
Hole #7-work with P&R at removing the downed tree, clear the hillside, and the back pin placements for the Mini Golf clearing the rock all the way up to #8 tee where....
Hole #8 and the stage area all the way cleared out and expose the rock, clean up around the long pin, and go deeper into the woods between the stage and the long pin for the LDO. 
Also cleaning out the backdrop to the stage area, increasing the rock bluffs.  Eventually we will be wanting to look at this as the teeing area as we move current hole #8's tee pad up along the rocks again in a position that will enable us to enjoy the hole even with it's removal.  This work leads to progress beyond the LDO!

That is all for now that is high on the list, we can worry about the other new holes after we get the new ones done.



As you can see most of what we will be needing to work on this weekend surround the LDO stage area as well as the Mini-Disc golf area that we will be needing to complete.  If you can come out and help, extra hands will be appreciated, weed eaters, rakes, and shovels are all that really are needed to move accordingly.

Cliff Drive / Re: Cliff Drive History
« on: August 05, 2014, 09:42:30 AM »
I am completely against it.

Said community leaders really think that they are doing all this work that is new to them, and old hat to us.

The bottom line is this, Brett Shoffner (ERTA-Trails why we are adjusting the course and losing a couple of holes) has a lot of energy.  That energy is very similar to the energy that I brought there back when we started to remove all the trash, all the honeysuckle, etc....  So what he is not wanting to see or the thought is that closing the gates will deter dumping.

As we are painfully aware of dumping will continue.  When the gates are closed, they will dump along the roads that don't require access...think disc golf I envision it being a more problematic issue with regards to the work that we will be needing to do. 

Now over time we have been able to continue to work the land so that as dumping occurs we can generally get it out quickly.  So there is some merit in the notion that having it cleaned helps to remove it faster.  That though also presents another challenge for me on a personal note.  It is Cliff Drive, it is not Cliff Trail, not Cliff Walk, not Cliff Ride.  I moved to the area because of that drive, and closing it will impact people that don't know about it, all they will see is gates closed, and wonder....hmmm....and go do something different.

I am fearful that closing the gates will create an elitist atmosphere and not conducive to the overall betterment of the park.

And I get where Brett is coming from.  He is working on areas that we worked on and walked away from, he is seeing things that are new to him, and old to me.  So maybe his energy is better served to make this happen as he doesn't have time constraints that I have now.  I don't know, but I do know that many reading this helped over the past 15 years to build a better place to play.  I also know that at no point did we think that closing the gates permanently was the idea to fix the issue.

Education and enforcement are the answers, but we don't seem to have the civic leaders and authority enforcing that.

So I for one am against the petition to close the gates permanently.  If there was a timeline stated for an actual cleanup and start and end objective I may be more on board.  Right now I am not.

Infact I am hesitant to work a new disc golf course into the mix until this subject is put to rest.  A disc golf course that you have to walk over a mile to get to isn't exactly the way I want to invite people to play, and that would be required or the building of another parking lot, taking away green space which I already think is a bad idea.

Now to do something great this weekend, come out and help at Cliff to get us ready for the Lion's Den Open.  That you can count on to be a fun and energetic event.

Cliff Drive / Re: Cliff drive League Night 8/4/14
« on: August 05, 2014, 09:31:50 AM »
Thanks Bill, I knew people would have fun throwing that shot, it has always been one of my personal favorites over the years.

Overall how did those of you who played the course enjoy that funky layout?

I was thinking about a crazy layout for the last league of the year possibly there, it would be October 6, where we really do play some crazy holes with the courses intersecting.


Blue Valley / Re: Earn your Green Frees.
« on: August 05, 2014, 09:29:40 AM »
Can we meet on Friday night to do this that you speak of?  I can probably come help...  Or even on Thursday if that works.

BTW, the course looked great last night, I didn't realize that some of the pins were shorter now, it made me alter the layout for the league, but I am hopeful that people had fun on it.  really can make some fun designs out there, the joy of the land is a certain added benefit.

Couple of things....
Loomis said things that he wasn't authorized to say.
Non-smoking clause isn't a Card consensus, it was simply a Loomis being an overactive jerk.  He had no right, the park isn't smoke free, nor does he have the power and authority to do so.  Who empowered him?  Himself, that is all, and since he acted as if he had that power very few argued it (I did, and I don't smoke, I simply said you're wrong and you can't do that-something I said quite frequently during his pontification)

Sunday had RAIN out the wazzoo, and needed to be addressed for safety.  No pools played the courses differently than the other pools, so even if you had different rules on Sunday you had the same rules as everyone in your division.

I know that DD has addressed the issue with him, and I personally feel bad that many visitors to KC had to endure this badgering of verbal abuse during what should be a fun time. 

I can't speak for DD, or Loomis, but I can speak for myself and the people that I know in Kansas City Disc Golf.  We apologize for the actions of the few that made the event less for you.

Overall that shouldn't ruin an event for anyone, for me it really did.  I though appreciated the time effort and energy displayed by DD to listen, recognize and appear to act in a sincere fashion to do what they could.  Unfortunately I was on the second to the last card so by the time I got to the park the damage was done.

Again, apologies from this guy for the behavior of a few that may not represent our best.  I personally hope that as you think about coming back to Kansas City you think about the golf action first in some respects, and then the people that you got to play with more than what a few may have done to not give you that warm welcome that we so attempt to achieve.

Kansas City has a lot of class act people, unfortunately in this instance it didn't shine through.  I know that I at times have also not been on my best, so it may be counted as a bad day, but we will work hard as a disc golf community to rebuild that trust and respect that we have worked hard to earn.

I encourage those of you with any concerns to address them with Scott directly, I know that he values that information and will use it to help formulate better ideas for the future events he runs.  Feedback positive and negative is the only way to improve.

You may have enjoyed the conversation with Loomis, I didn't.  If you did though, please don't hesitate to reach out to Scott and share your experience with him.  It will only help.

Outside of the issues on that, and of course my play.  I really enjoyed the format, the courses, the work that went into the event, and I look forward to seeing more events along these lines.

Thanks to everyone DD, KCFDC, and countless volunteers and sponsors for an event of this size, growing pains will happen.  And then the clothes will fit better next time.

Blue Valley / Re: Earn your Green Frees.
« on: August 04, 2014, 10:59:32 PM »
We have our big cleanup at cliff this weekend.   I hate having conflicting cleans in The NE.

Blue Valley / Re: NE League 8/4/14 @ Blue Valley-PDGA Style
« on: August 04, 2014, 02:36:23 PM »
Blue Valley NE League 8/4/14
1-Hole #1 Big Course
2-(all Jr.)Across street Tee from #2 to #3 basket, go top of hill to #4.
3-#4 Jr downhill
4-#5 to #6 basket up top hill
5-#7 to #8 basket (by road on North)
6-#9 (back by #7 pad)
7-#1 to #5 basket
8-By water trash can to #3
9-(Back on Big)#4
14-#9 Short
15-#9 alt pad to #9 long pin
16-#10 Short Pad

If this helps.  Since I will be running late, please unless you are CONFIDENT you know the course, only start on last 5 holes, so #8-#12, I should be there a touch after 6.

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