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Messages - jack

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Cliff Drive / Re: Pin Placements
« on: March 17, 2014, 09:36:44 AM »
That is up to the TD, but probably in a medium length since Blue Valley will be in play on the Big Side.

General Banter / Re: Wyco League Change?
« on: March 17, 2014, 09:29:56 AM »
The big issue is that the only communication about this change or possible change is the internet........and we don't have all the people reading this and other posts.

People are out of town, have jobs, don't have computers, don't like going on line for this.  So once this started to spread (it gets nice, people are out playing again) to conversations about did you hear that there is no league out here on Friday any more?

Then people resort to reading things that they normally don't.

Was anything posted on the WyCo marquee about a change?  Did anyone ask about any of the league regulars out there to possibly help?

The internet is a tool, but I know personally of quite a few people that I will GUARANTEE will not have read one piece of information from the internet.  This is a great tool, but personally more information should be garnered from all aspects before a decision is made to change a league that has been in place for over a decade on one park than a few posts started a few weeks before leagues are slated to start.

I also think that (this is something I believe should be better of all of us, self included) had Rob been the person running league in the past that he may have been better served to speak for the normal people playing.  Instead now you have a person that hasn't ran league out there asking the BoD to approve changing something that has historically been in place to align with his abilities to run a league.  It wasn't a matter of WyCo needing to change to help the players, but rather, the person willing at the time to be able to commit (Rob this isn't a burn on you though I can see it looking that way.  I mean it more in a manner as had Tracy said, you know what we all looked at it last year and Wednesdays would be better.....) 

I also though applaud Rob for stepping up and taking on the change possibly to run the league.

In response to that, why not make it 2 leagues at WyCo.  Rob will run a PDGA league on Wednesday all people interested in attending can do so, and then Mark can run the KCFDC league on Friday's?

Do we not have enough people to play league twice a week out there?  Is it too much to think about?  Could we make WyCo on Friday's the first Doubles league in the city for quite some time?  Make the Friday leagues rotate through types of play, random dubs, wolf, cali rules, singles, team challenges?  I think that you could then alter the Friday style to be a little more cool.

Just a thought.  I hate to see any of the attention that Rob is getting for stepping up being viewed as negative.  I feel that we already don't have enough people stepping up to make things work in town.  It is done by a lot of the same people, so new energy is always a good thing to me. 

Instead of arguing why, lets figure out how to, and make it work in all instances.  BTW this is why I personally voted for the rotating locations, I think that way you get more people that will want to play on different circuits, and increase the participation across the board.....limiting it to one park makes that tougher.  People will show up once maybe 2x out of the normal, where as I feel (OPINION) as though that moving it would bring more people that are really driven by the PDGA to go to the varied course to see how they rate.

Cliff Drive / Re: Pin Placements
« on: March 15, 2014, 03:23:48 PM »
updated pin placements on page 1

Cliff Drive / Re: Leagues in 2014
« on: March 14, 2014, 04:15:46 PM »
I am traveling too much at any rate to help.  But as always I will help whomever decides to keep the league alive.  Unfortunately my time to do so has ran it's course.  That being said when I am here I will help out accordingly.  Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday (horrible for me), Thursday.....yeah right, someone try to run a league against WW on Thursday(chuckling, scratch that, laughing out LOUD)....or Friday.  Saturday or we tried on Sundays as well.

I don't care about the dates, I would ask that you keep BV in the mix as well though.

I am though getting ready to head out and mark some new areas to play right now if anyone wants to meet me past current #6 placement, come on out!

Tournaments / Re: 2014 City of Fountains - PDGA B Tier- April 19th
« on: March 11, 2014, 02:31:04 PM »
Wide OPen is BIG BLUE, this isn't a Wide Open preparedness, but may be similar in locations on BIG BLUE, there isn't a mix of Big Blue and Little Blue, there is either one.  Wide Open will be BIG BLUE, as will the City Of Fountains, will be BIG BLUE.  We have enough daylight to make it happen for both.

PM sent....

Leagues / Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« on: March 04, 2014, 06:40:48 PM »
There is something wrong with the Ratings, I will send a note off, as well.  I looked in there and the 55 that I shot is rated at a 1001, and I think that night it was rated like a 980, I even listed in the comments, that no 1000 rated round, so the course won.

I will send a note off, they had issues with this "event" and may have affected it.

I think that this was a glitch and thanks for pointing that out for certain.

Leagues / Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« on: March 04, 2014, 06:36:30 PM »
Ratings aren't based on a course, they are based on the players that played league that night with established ratings history.

If you play a round of golf with 10 people that are rated at 1000, and your 60-950, and you play a round with 10 people at 900, you can bet your 60-will probably equal a 925 now instead.

Par is subjective, but has nothing to do with the ratings.  There can be manual manipulations with weather related incidents, that typically will only occur when you have tee times that changed over the day (yet another reason Tee times are harmful for ratings.....or tough to be accurate with).

The issue that night was that you had 968 rated players shooting 68, and then 925 shooting 59, so the curve was that the course played easier to the system on the lower rated players, and thererfore the high rated players should have shot better.  It again shows a "flaw" in ratings that I can go into but ultimately unless your higher rated players shoot better than you the course will play at a "lower rating" over all.  You can look at scores from different pools of the Wide Open to also see that the variance based on course and pool is also different.

Ratings are far from perfect, it is what we use currently though and there will be issues based along those lines.  Suffice it to say, par (the TD's determination of PAR) has absolutely nothing to do with ratings, it has to do with the players that are rated playing that course in that same field on that same day.  Every day a course can be rated different based on the participation, even though the course doesn't change.  What you hope to have happen is that you get enough people playing the same exact course over and over in the exact hole configurations (tough in KC as many placements on MANY holes make the course different weekly almost) so that you get a statistical numeration to have an understanding of the course.

I have done that at Cliff Drive over the years to learn which holes are tweaners, but then that is my own diligence.  Not everyone enters the hole configurations to make determinations.

So the longer or longest answer (yeah I can be longer) is that it doesn't matter what course is played, as long as everyone playing that course played it that day under the similar conditions for rating purposes.


Leagues / Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« on: March 04, 2014, 04:13:04 PM »
Integrity Joe, plain and simple.  Can it be done, absolutely, but asking for it to happen as a KCFDC league which has it's own merits means that it should be above the board.

It's not a matter of stepping on toes, but if all of a sudden a course ends up with 10-15 cars, and 30-40 people showing up, someone somewhere is going to ask, and an honest answer is best, so why hide it?  Or try to remember what to say?

The fact is that for me personally I have a hard enough time trying to remember the truth, you start filling my head with lies to remember and it is going to get ugly in there.

So the instance of holding an "approved" league that garners the support of the club, and covers the incidents that could happen within the confines of the game only makes sense.

Now as a side note to that a quick call to the P&R to ask permission may find that out as well, in which case a KCFDC BoD member (Ideally State VP) should reach out to inquire as to what they may like to see to gain or garner support.  most will have  list of requirements, and they could be simple, or not so much.....going with 10 weeks in a league Rob, you should be late enough on time to cover that in June after rain outs, etc that will happen to ensure daylight shouldn't be an issue.

It's not that you "can't" it is that you want to do it correctly so that no one is surprised, angry or hurt that proper channels weren't adhered to.

Leagues / Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« on: March 04, 2014, 03:34:31 PM »
You of course can do it how ever you want, the issue would be getting approval to exchange funds at a course that isn't KCFDC approved.  I know for example a few places have already indicated that without insurance they don't want any type of "organized" event at their park.

So by having the KCFDC courses, you have the insurance piece covered, and that alleviates many of the NIMBY types.

Leagues / Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« on: March 04, 2014, 03:14:14 PM »
Bravo.  I like the idea of rotating leagues.  I like the notion of everyone playing a different location, I thought that would be a great plan for the league.

THe only thing to remember is that there is a $1/fee, so if you go to Olathe on Monday nights for example there would be an additional $1/fee per player for the PDGA league.

The notion of 10 weeks, 10 different location is a fun one.  Excellent, don't limit to KS courses only though, use all KCFDC courses would/should/could be the requirement.

Using courses not KCFDC could create some other issues that no one should have to worry about in running this type of format.

Blue Valley / Re: Earn your Green Frees.
« on: February 28, 2014, 01:36:35 PM »
Weather looks like it might hold in the morning, lets get some love out there on the course to clean it up.  More hands equals less time of work to get the same accomplished!

Tournaments / Re: 2014 Memorial
« on: February 28, 2014, 01:35:17 PM »
Yep....that sure looks like John HEAT-ON of KC, good catch......I guess the grizzly bears came out of hibernation to watch this as well?

Blue Valley / Re: Earn your Green Frees.
« on: February 27, 2014, 01:11:07 PM »
Cold doesn't bother me, I personally enjoy working in it this time of year.  Rain/Drizzle/Sleet/wet snow does.  If the weather is alright I will try to get out there, if it isn't, then I am going to be working indoors I am certain.  Today would be a great day in my mind to get out there.  If it is like this I will work on getting there!

Blue Valley / Re: Earn your Green Frees.
« on: February 27, 2014, 08:56:25 AM »
The weather report is looking pretty bleak...  Are you sure you wanna go out on the snow/rain/sleet day?  It may be prudent to move it......but totally your call.

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