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Messages - robm

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136
General Banter / Re: What types of beer do disc golfers like?
« on: December 06, 2015, 06:41:31 pm »
Voting closes in 7 days

137
General Banter / What types of beer do disc golfers like?
« on: December 06, 2015, 06:40:23 pm »
I think that maybe my view on beer may skew what I think other disc golfers drink, so I'm curious on what you actually prefer.  This could be good information not only for the events I run, but also for those that help with Disc Golf Day, Ice Bowl, KCWO, etc.

Prost!

138
Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 04, 2015, 05:57:05 pm »
Thank you for your thoughts.  I'll consider various options going forward for 2016. 

139
Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 04, 2015, 09:38:24 am »
Long time ago, in a state far, far away... I used to run road races.  10K, 1/2 Marathons, etc.  My beer gut may not suggest it but I actually went to Iowa State Championship in cross country.  Wow, that was more than a half life ago.  Anyway, the 'player pack' for non-school events was a t-shirt.  Really good ones were a pair of running shorts.  That's it.

However, the Am Payout is so ingrained into our current DG tournament scene, that it isn't going to change.  Just because it doesn't happen in other Am sports doesn't mean that it is a bad thing for this sport.  The PP and payout was one of the significant reasons why I started to play tournaments.  Now that I have more plastic than I can use, I now would enter a $10 tournament with no PP, no payouts, just awards.  As a TD, if I tried that now, I would get maybe 5 people to come.  If anyone is so willing to try it, I'm specifically talking about a PDGA sanctioned event.  Not a mini/league where I pay $10 and don't get anything tangible, not even a rated round.

I get what Dick is saying.  I actually agree with it to a point.  It's just not going to happen within the next 5 years.

140
Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 03, 2015, 05:51:23 pm »
I was wondering why those were cheaper than the others on your eBay shop. If I had to guess, it's because of all the weird mismatched patterns in the stamp -- not TriLion's best work, I'm afraid.

Combination of not a good stamp and not hotly sought after molds.  Some of the lesser nice ones will be moved to the bargain bin next season.  Or given away as CTPs, or something else I come up with.  Maybe long distance competition over a large lake.

141
Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 03, 2015, 12:31:03 pm »
Thanks for your comments guys.  It does help to understand what people want.

(And Jeff, thanks for playing nicely  ;) )

142
Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 03, 2015, 11:55:51 am »
I'm still committed to be cheaper, which means smaller player packs, lower payouts, but will be tweaking items to make it sustainable.

Some tournaments don't have a Player Pack because that can be a risky outlay for a non-store promoter like me.  I have to order a minimum number of discs.  However, if I don't get the players signed up, then I'm left with a bunch of tournament stamped discs that nobody wants (I Like SpIke).  Pushing all entry to payouts makes sure I don't get stuck with inventory I can't sell.

With this being said, and I'm sure someone would point it out if I didn't, my first two tournaments next year will have a larger player pack because Innova is the presenting sponsor which is allowing me to provide more product.  If you haven't noticed, I like to mix things up a bit.  One of the tournaments next year will have the normal golf discs (TeeBird, Destroyer, Gator, etc.) for the Player Pack item, but will also include a second disc - a Zephyr, which is a SuperClass disc.  I actually looked into running a SuperClass event, but the PDGA stop sanctioning those a few years back.

Also - the Longview Open, will have a noticeable larger PP than what I can usually provide.  It will be an Innova exclusive disc (I don't even know what it is yet), a Performance Tee, baseball cap, mini, and other small items.

143
Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 03, 2015, 11:48:00 am »
I have a better suggestion. No more payouts for Ams. Sorry not sorry, I know it isn't a popular opinion but we are one of the few if not only Am sporting events with a payout.

I would play a $10 PDGA Sanctioned tournament with no player pack, no payouts and trophy only every weekend of the year from March 1 to November 30th.  I think I'm like less than 1% though.

144
Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 03, 2015, 11:46:30 am »
This thread wasn't intended to be about payouts, but I don't want to ignore some thoughts that were brought up.

Regarding payout depth - I actually do hear it from both sides.  I understand MK's views, and I understand BoltNutZ views.  Generally, I tend to run the tournaments the way that I would want to be if I played in them.  Deeper payouts make more people happy (although the top not as happy).  I get excited when I have a payout, even $10.  I'm like, 'cool dude, I CASHED!'  It does help people to play up versus playing down. 

I'll take myself, again, as an example.  I've been playing DG casually for 10 years, competitively for 5 years.  However, I have never broke a 851 rating and have only had 3-5 rounds ever above 900.  Not only could I play Rec, but most of my 'career' so far I could have played Novice.  Most of the time I play Rec, honestly, because it's cheaper and I'd rather play more tournaments.  Sometimes I play Intermediate because I get tired of explaining the rules to new players.  1-2x per year I'll play Adv. Master because the cost is the same and I'm not going to cash regardless of what division I'm in (Glass Blown Open, AM Worlds, etc.).

The costs of my tournaments are going to go up next year $2-3 per division.  Reality is I've lost more money in 2015 than made and am currently sitting in the red by a noticeable amount.  There isn't a business model, for profit or non-profit, than can do that long term other than our government (don't get me started).  I'm still committed to be cheaper, which means smaller player packs, lower payouts, but will be tweaking items to make it sustainable.

Some tournaments don't have a Player Pack because that can be a risky outlay for a non-store promoter like me.  I have to order a minimum number of discs.  However, if I don't get the players signed up, then I'm left with a bunch of tournament stamped discs that nobody wants (I Like SpIke).  Pushing all entry to payouts makes sure I don't get stuck with inventory I can't sell.

145
Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 03, 2015, 11:27:54 am »
Here are my views:

As a 45 year old, I qualify for age protected divisions.  However, sometimes what I see in these protected divisions (including women divisions) are smaller numbers that could very well fit into other divisions such as Advanced, Intermediate or Rec.

For smaller tournaments, I think reducing the number of divisions allows more competition within divisions.  Ratings based tournaments can allow this to happen.  Reducing Divisions with Division based tournaments could also be done, but usually will illicit some questions if not complaints.

My first Ratings Based tournament was in Beatrice, NE earlier this spring.  I enjoyed it because I was competing directly with people within +/- 35 rating points of me.  I felt like the playing field was leveled and enjoyed that my ratings based group was more about skill level than age, gender, etc.

I think Ratings Based works well for smaller tournaments, i.e. less than 50, on normal length courses. I honestly expected Big Blue Monster to be less than 50 on a nice day.  I was very surprised that it was 73 on a cold windy day.  In hindsight, it would have been better to have the normal Division based divisions offered and if I do this next year (which I will if it doesn't have too much conflict with the KCFDC Championships), it will be a normal Division based tournament but may include Novice as well.

I am considering moving the Rose Park Open (formerly known as Tick Flick) in McLouth to a Ratings Based event.  The perceived number of players (40-70) would be better and the length of the course would not be particularly advantageous to a 900 rated 20 year old vs. a 900 rated 55 year old.  I think BBMonster was *potentially* easier for younger individuals with younger joints.

146
Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 03, 2015, 11:15:30 am »
Got more feedback here than facebook, but I'll include those comments too.

Quote
One advantage of a rating-based tournament is that every player definitely has a place, particularly women. I've already lost count of the number of times I've seen a tournament that offers a broad spectrum of divisions for men to choose from, and women are lumped into fewer divisions, and some are not even offered. (As an example, the pro side of the GBO has many pro men's divisions, and ALL pro women are lumped into open.)

Quote
Division based are better. Ratings don't say much about how good of a player you are. Basic statistics will tell you that.

Quote
It's a fun change up, unique formats are welcome in my book!

147
Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 02, 2015, 05:56:59 pm »
I intend to run both Division based and Ratings based tournaments in 2016.  I'm just getting everybody's views on it first.

148
Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 02, 2015, 04:34:57 pm »
All in all was about the same, except there was no players pack I assume?

You are correct, there wasn't a player pack for this one.

There wasn't a direct correlation / causation between ratings based and no player pack.  There could be a player pack with a ratings based tournament, and I've played in and hosted division tournaments without a player pack.

My thought process behind making Big Blue a ratings based tournament and the thoughts of not having a player back were somewhat related, but they could be totally separated.

I'll provide my thought behind what I did in a while after more comments.

149
Heritage Park / Re: Some pics from our newest course.
« on: December 02, 2015, 04:30:34 pm »
love that last pic of the huge tree

150
Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 02, 2015, 04:29:20 pm »
Thank you all for the comments.  I'll wait awhile longer before I write what I think about them.

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