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Messages - robm

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Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 03, 2015, 11:46:30 AM »
This thread wasn't intended to be about payouts, but I don't want to ignore some thoughts that were brought up.

Regarding payout depth - I actually do hear it from both sides.  I understand MK's views, and I understand BoltNutZ views.  Generally, I tend to run the tournaments the way that I would want to be if I played in them.  Deeper payouts make more people happy (although the top not as happy).  I get excited when I have a payout, even $10.  I'm like, 'cool dude, I CASHED!'  It does help people to play up versus playing down. 

I'll take myself, again, as an example.  I've been playing DG casually for 10 years, competitively for 5 years.  However, I have never broke a 851 rating and have only had 3-5 rounds ever above 900.  Not only could I play Rec, but most of my 'career' so far I could have played Novice.  Most of the time I play Rec, honestly, because it's cheaper and I'd rather play more tournaments.  Sometimes I play Intermediate because I get tired of explaining the rules to new players.  1-2x per year I'll play Adv. Master because the cost is the same and I'm not going to cash regardless of what division I'm in (Glass Blown Open, AM Worlds, etc.).

The costs of my tournaments are going to go up next year $2-3 per division.  Reality is I've lost more money in 2015 than made and am currently sitting in the red by a noticeable amount.  There isn't a business model, for profit or non-profit, than can do that long term other than our government (don't get me started).  I'm still committed to be cheaper, which means smaller player packs, lower payouts, but will be tweaking items to make it sustainable.

Some tournaments don't have a Player Pack because that can be a risky outlay for a non-store promoter like me.  I have to order a minimum number of discs.  However, if I don't get the players signed up, then I'm left with a bunch of tournament stamped discs that nobody wants (I Like SpIke).  Pushing all entry to payouts makes sure I don't get stuck with inventory I can't sell.

Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 03, 2015, 11:27:54 AM »
Here are my views:

As a 45 year old, I qualify for age protected divisions.  However, sometimes what I see in these protected divisions (including women divisions) are smaller numbers that could very well fit into other divisions such as Advanced, Intermediate or Rec.

For smaller tournaments, I think reducing the number of divisions allows more competition within divisions.  Ratings based tournaments can allow this to happen.  Reducing Divisions with Division based tournaments could also be done, but usually will illicit some questions if not complaints.

My first Ratings Based tournament was in Beatrice, NE earlier this spring.  I enjoyed it because I was competing directly with people within +/- 35 rating points of me.  I felt like the playing field was leveled and enjoyed that my ratings based group was more about skill level than age, gender, etc.

I think Ratings Based works well for smaller tournaments, i.e. less than 50, on normal length courses. I honestly expected Big Blue Monster to be less than 50 on a nice day.  I was very surprised that it was 73 on a cold windy day.  In hindsight, it would have been better to have the normal Division based divisions offered and if I do this next year (which I will if it doesn't have too much conflict with the KCFDC Championships), it will be a normal Division based tournament but may include Novice as well.

I am considering moving the Rose Park Open (formerly known as Tick Flick) in McLouth to a Ratings Based event.  The perceived number of players (40-70) would be better and the length of the course would not be particularly advantageous to a 900 rated 20 year old vs. a 900 rated 55 year old.  I think BBMonster was *potentially* easier for younger individuals with younger joints.

Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 03, 2015, 11:15:30 AM »
Got more feedback here than facebook, but I'll include those comments too.

One advantage of a rating-based tournament is that every player definitely has a place, particularly women. I've already lost count of the number of times I've seen a tournament that offers a broad spectrum of divisions for men to choose from, and women are lumped into fewer divisions, and some are not even offered. (As an example, the pro side of the GBO has many pro men's divisions, and ALL pro women are lumped into open.)

Division based are better. Ratings don't say much about how good of a player you are. Basic statistics will tell you that.

It's a fun change up, unique formats are welcome in my book!

Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 02, 2015, 05:56:59 PM »
I intend to run both Division based and Ratings based tournaments in 2016.  I'm just getting everybody's views on it first.

Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 02, 2015, 04:34:57 PM »
All in all was about the same, except there was no players pack I assume?

You are correct, there wasn't a player pack for this one.

There wasn't a direct correlation / causation between ratings based and no player pack.  There could be a player pack with a ratings based tournament, and I've played in and hosted division tournaments without a player pack.

My thought process behind making Big Blue a ratings based tournament and the thoughts of not having a player back were somewhat related, but they could be totally separated.

I'll provide my thought behind what I did in a while after more comments.

Heritage Park / Re: Some pics from our newest course.
« on: December 02, 2015, 04:30:34 PM »
love that last pic of the huge tree

Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 02, 2015, 04:29:20 PM »
Thank you all for the comments.  I'll wait awhile longer before I write what I think about them.

Tournaments / Re: Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 02, 2015, 04:27:38 PM »
Rated round tourneys are nice but you should always be allowed to play up (some guys like donations)...Personally I have an 880 rating with the PDGA and have been playing 930+ golf here in KC. I would not play a rating based tourney layout knowing I could not play up because I would feel bad sand bagging.

Playing up was an option for the two I've been involved in.  You can't play down obviously.

Tournaments / Ratings Based Tournaments
« on: December 02, 2015, 01:17:40 PM »
What are your thoughts on Ratings Based Tournaments (vs. Division Based Tournaments).  Big Blue Monster was a ratings based tournie.

I have my opinions on them but I'm interested in hearing yours.

General Banter / Re: Practice Basket
« on: December 01, 2015, 08:51:15 PM »
Gateway makes one called a Bullseye.  Really easy to put up and take down.  No bolts.

Tournaments / Re: Maverick Disc Golf Schedule 2016
« on: December 01, 2015, 01:10:49 PM »

Tournaments / Maverick Disc Golf Schedule 2016
« on: December 01, 2015, 12:29:03 PM »
BOLD items are the only one that have been fully approved.  Others have not been fully approved by the respective approval bodies including but not limited to the PDGA, State, County or City Parks Departments, and the KCFDC BOD if and when applicable.

Tournaments I'm planning on running or promoting or both.

March 5 - Kanza Krush Presented by Innova Champion Discs  C/B Tier at Kanza Park, Ottawa, KS

April 9 & 10 - Longview Open Presented by Innova Champion Discs C/B Tier at Longview DGC, Ozawkie / Perry / Perry Lake, KS.  One day event with divisions split.

Saturday, 4/9/15 Divisions:
 Advanced Women
 Advanced Masters
 Advanced Grandmasters
 Advanced Sr. Grandmasters (if 3 or more request it)
 Recreational Women
 Junior 2 (16 & Under)

 Sunday, 4/10/15 Divisions:
 Open Women
 Intermediate Women
 Novice Women
 Junior 1 (19 & Under)

May 28 - Carolyn's Dirty Water Open (aka Tick Flick) C Tier at Rose Park, McLouth, KS. 
Ratings Based tournament instead of a Division Based tournament like the Big Blue Monster was.
Registration link:

June 18 - Atchison Aviatrix presented by Innova Champion Discs.  C/B Tier at Jackson Park, Atchison, KS.
Registration link:

August 20 - Limestone Classic C/B Tier at Swope Park, Cottone Wood Falls, KS
New course designed by Eric McCabe.
Registration link:

September 24 & 25 - Yankton (SD) 2-Step  2 separate tournaments in Yankton, SD.
Saturday at Gavins Point registration:
Sunday at Fantle Memorial registration:

October 1 - Raymore Rumble C/B Tier at Recreation Park, Raymore, MO

November 5 - Big Blue Monster, C-Tier w/ normal divisions at Big Blue Valley, KCMO

November 26 - Centennial Chain Crash, C/B-Tier Centennial Park, Lawrence, KS

Hi rob.  Have you a list of tournaments and dates for your series yet. Just trying to get a list of all tournaments and dates written down on the calender.  I know it early still.

Will post shortly

What's to tell? Six dozen intrepid DGers braved the fear of icy roads, just-below-freezing temperatures, gloomy skies, wet socks, on-and-off light sleet and freezing rain, grass that was crystallized under a layer of ice (creating some interesting skip shots), chains that were slick with ice (creating some insane chain-outs and -throughs), teepads caked with ice and mud which made footing treacherous, wide quagmires of thick mud around many teepads, bathrooms locked shut for the winter, and a daytime which had a hair under ten hours of daylight because it's almost the winter solstice. 
And despite that we had a great time!

Yep.  This pretty much sums it up.  I'm glad we didn't postpone it.  There were a few golfers that came in the night before and stayed in a hotel in order to not miss it.  Only about 8-10 didn't make it.

The weather sure isn't cooperating this morning. I'm torn between postponing the tournament and going ahead with it. I feel compelled to go forward because I know there will be some that will show up without having read this post. There is no way to be able to get ahold of all 74 players in time and I would feel very bad to not have the tournament knowing some made it out expecting it to happen. From last night's perspective, it seem like the freezing rain would stop in time for us to play.

PLEASE use your best judgement on whether you should come or not. If you decide to not come, I will mail you your disc.

I'm sure having the tournament or not having the tournament will leave some players disappointed and mad. I am sorry for that. Please be safe, and if the road conditions of where you are at are bad, please stay home

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