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Messages - Tracy

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Tournaments / Re: 2015 Kan-U-WYCO March 14th-15th
« on: March 10, 2015, 10:11:51 am »
So I haven't played in this for a few years. Does it still have the long o.b. island hole?

It will, yes.  In fact, we'll be out there on Friday to set it up. The course will not have as much OB set up as in recent years.  However, holes #13 and #8 will have rope designating fairway and island green Out of Bounds.  In addition, Scott is putting several Mando's into play. I don't recall exactly all of them.

If anyone wants to help with setting up rope, meet at hole #13 (park at Ag Hall of Fame across from #13 pin) at 4:30, this Friday.

Tournaments / Re: East Vs. West 2015
« on: March 10, 2015, 09:33:02 am »
Hmmm, I am sort of on the fence about this.  From the event organizing side, I want the starting hole to be near parking, facilities (if available) and such.  Most courses have a few places that would fit fine.  I just don't want to have everyone wandering off to say, hole #5 at Cliff Drive as the starting hole. On the other hand, I continue to want to give Captains flexibility.  That actually outweighs my event organizer preference.  If Steve and Joe agree that captains should be allowed to designate "Hole 1,"  I'll amend the rule, as such. With an unofficial caveat that when doing so the captain considers convenience and location relative to facilities when making their "Hole 1" choice.

Tournaments / Re: East Vs. West 2015
« on: March 09, 2015, 07:57:04 pm »
This is confirmed for June 6/7?


Tournaments / Re: East Vs. West 2015
« on: March 09, 2015, 02:57:48 pm »
Rules are 90% done.  I just need to write up the matches "draft" process.  Look for an official thread by tomorrow evening.

The rules are up.
Comment here, if you must. 
I've asked Kevin to sticky and lock the rules thread.

I have a much better formatted version that I will provide to the captains as soon as I can meet with each of them.  I'll also bring copies to the event for everyone to have reference to.

Jack, thanks for the praise (I saw your comment before KevMo nuked it in sticky/locking it). I appreciate the positivetude!

Tournaments / Kansas City Team Challenge rules and guidelines
« on: March 09, 2015, 02:42:18 pm »
Kansas City Team Challenge

Purpose: Bring together teams from each of two designated areas within the Kansas City region to claim bragging rights for a year and to raise money for the Kansas City Flying Disc Club tree replacement fund.

Event Format:  Team Match Play
-- Day 1 (Saturday) Alternate Shot Doubles Match Play
   -- 8 matches worth one point each.
   -- These matches are hosted in odd years by Kansas side. They are hosted in even years by Missouri side. 
   -- The captain of the hosting side selects a KCFDC affiliate course in their state to hold the round.
   -- The host captain will have the option to put out first pairing or defer to visiting captain in the Match Creation process (see below).

-- Day 2 (Sunday) Best Shot Doubles Matchplay (a.m.) and Singles Match Play (p.m.)
   -- 8 doubles matches worth one point each and 16 singles matches worth one point each.
   -- These matches are hosted in odd years by Missouri side. They are hosted in even years by Kansas side
   -- The captain of the hosting side selects one KCFDC affiliate course in their state to hold the rounds.
   -- For the doubles matches, the host captain will have the option to put out first pairing or defer to visiting captain in the Match Creation process (see below). For the singles matches, that option will go to the captain who’s team has the points lead after the first two rounds.  If the points score is tied after the first two rounds, the option to begin the singles draft goes to the host captain.

Determining the Champion:
-- Each of 32 total matches is worth one point.
   -- The winner (paring or single) of a match will earn one point for their team.
   -- The loser of a match will earn zero points.
   -- A match that is tied (halved) will earn one half (.5) of a point for their team.
-- The reigning champion team must earn 16 points, or more, to retain the championship trophy.
-- The challenging team must earn 16.5 points, or more, to take the trophy away from the reigning champions.

Team Rosters:
-- Each team must have a minimum of 16 players and a maximum of 20 players
    -- If a team is unable to field the minimum 16 players, they will proceed with any matches they can’t assign pairings to as follows:
        -- Alternate Shot doubles matches; failure to field two players in any match will result in a forfeit.
            -- An alternate shot match will also be forfeit if a player becomes injured and/or otherwise can’t complete their assigned match.
        -- Best Shot doubles matches;  A player may be allowed to play alone in a Best Shot doubles match. But they will play the match as a single, not with “Cali rules.”
            -- The same is true if a partner cannot continue a match for some reason.  Their partner may continue the match as a single.
        -- Singles matches:  Failure to field a player for any singles match will result in a forfeit of that match
            -- A match will also be forfeit if a singles player cannot, for any reason, finish their match.
-- This is an Open event, as such, there are no divisional or gender requirements.
-- Each team will be formed at the discretion of their captain with the following suggested guidelines. 
   -- 1 captain spot
   -- No more than 6 spots from one PDGA sanctioned tournament (based on best scores across all divisions of that event).
   -- At least 9 spots from non-PDGA sanctioned events such as KCFDC leagues or specially created qualifying events.
   -- No more than 4 captain's picks.
-- Player eligibility: 
   -- If you live in the designated area and are a KCFDC club member, you are eligible for the Kansas City Team Championship.
   -- The one and only hard and fast rule here is that you must reside in the state of the side you’re to play for. The rest of these rules are purely to prevent “ringers” from being brought in from other parts of the state for either team. 
   -- I’ll call the first the Amanda line and its KevMo exception.  The line within which you must reside is a circle of 50 mile radius drawn with its center at the confluence of the Kansas and Missouri rivers.  It was originally drawn at 50 miles to include Amanda Jackson in the event, who at the time lived in St Joseph, MO. The exception; it is possible someone resides outside that 50 mile radius circle but has been and is a very active volunteer of the KCFDC.  Kevin Montgomery comes to mind as one who fits this exception.
   -- The second is KCFDC membership. You must belong to the club or are heavily involved both historically and currently with the Kansas City area disc golf community.
   -- Exceptions to the eligibility rules can be decided on by the captains and the event coordinator.  Again, the rules here are not meant to exclude valued members of the KC disc golf community,  but rather to prevent either side from bringing in ringers from outside of our local community. 

Match Creation:
-- The match creation process for each format will begin approximately 30 minutes prior to the scheduled start time of the round for that format.
-- The first captain to select is based on the rules stated in Event Format (see above).
-- The match ups for each round will be determined in a “snake draft” style procedure as follows:
   -- Captain A announces which player(s) from their roster will participate in match #1.  Captain B then announces which player(s) will compete against captain A’s selection in match #1
   -- Captain B announces which player(s) from their roster will participate in match #2.  Captain A then announces which player(s) will compete against captain B’s selection in match #2
   -- This procedure repeats itself with the captains alternating who puts out player(s) first in each match until all the matches for that format round are determined.
-- Captains are free to put anyone from their pool of 16-20 players in any matchup, as long as they haven’t already been selected for a previous match in the current draft process.

Order of play:
All matches in each format will begin on a single hole designated by the host Captain and will play in the order created by the draft selection process. With the first player(s) announced in each match teeing off first to start the round.  Any player(s) that win a hole will have honors on the tee for the next hole.  For singles matches, which we run two matches per card, the player that has the best last score will tee off first, followed immediately by their competitor. Then the players of the other match on the card will tee off.

General Rules of Play:
-- The PDGA Official Rules of Disc Golf and Competition Manual shall be followed. 
-- Practice putting following the conclusion of a hole is allowed as long the player(s) observe the PDGA pace of play and excessive time rules.
-- Observe the host park laws for tobacco and alcohol use.

Specific format rules:
-- Alternate shot doubles:
   -- Alternate shot play: Players A and B are partners. They decide among themselves who tees off first on the the first hole. Let's say they decide on Player A to throw the opening tee shot. So on the first hole, Player A throws the tee shot. They walk to the lie, and Player B throws the second shot. The next lie is played by Player A. Then Player B and so forth until the disc is in the basket. They also alternate tee shots. Since, in our example, Player A threw the drive on the first hole, on the second hole Player B tees off. This is the case, even if player B holed out on the previous hole.
   -- If the wrong player on a team throws, the other team must call it immediately, like a foot fault. The team receives a warning, and the correct player throws. Subsequent violations incur a one-throw penalty applied to score on the hole being played.
   -- For any violation that requires a rethrow (stance violation, provisional throw), the same player throws.
-- Best Shot doubles:
   -- A team may take a reasonable amount of time to pick which lie they want before the 30-second play clock starts.
   -- A lie that is picked up without being marked is gone forever; the team must throw from the other lie. If the second lie is picked up, it must be replaced in accordance with PDGA rules. All lies must be marked according to PDGA rules.
   -- If the first player throws from the worse lie, the second player must also throw from that lie.  The better lie is lost.
   -- In case of injury or disqualification, one partner may play alone, throwing one shot at each lie (essentially playing as a single).

Basics of Match Play Scorekeeping (directly from
-- Simple: Win a hole, that's one for you; lose a hole, that's one for your opponent. Ties on individual holes (called halves) essentially don't count; they aren't kept track of in the scorekeeping.
-- The score of a match play match is rendered relationally. Here's what we mean: Let's say you've won 5 holes and your opponent has won 4. The score is not shown as 5 to 4; rather, it's rendered as 1-up for you, or 1-down for your opponent. If you have won 6 holes and your opponent 3, then you are leading 3-up, and your opponent is trailing 3-down.
-- Essentially, match play scoring tells golfers and spectators not how many holes each golfer has won, but how many more holes than his opponent the golfer in the lead has won. If the match is tied, it is said to be “all square.”
-- Match Play matches do not have to go the full 18 holes. They often do, but just as frequently one player will achieve an insurmountable lead and the match will end early. Say you reach a score of 6-up with 5 holes to play - you've clinched the victory, and the match is over.
-- What the Final Scores Mean
   -- Someone unfamiliar with match play scoring might be confused to see a score of "1-up" or "4 and 3" for a match. What does it mean? Here are the different types of scores you might see in match play:
   -- • 1-up: As a final score, 1-up means that the match went the full 18 holes with the winner finishing with one more hole won than the runner-up. If the match goes 18 holes and you've won 6 holes while I've won 5 holes (the other holes being halved, or tied), then you've beaten me 1-up.
   -- • 2 and 1: When you see a match play score that is rendered in this way - 2 and 1, 3 and 2, 4 and 3, and so on - it means that the winner clinched the victory before reaching the 18th hole and the match ended early.
   -- The first number in such a score tells you the number of holes by which the winner is victorious, and the second number tells you the hole on which the match ended. So "2 and 1" means that the winner was 2 holes ahead with 1 hole to play (the match ended after No. 17), "3 and 2" means 3 holes ahead to with 2 holes to play (the match ended after No. 16), and so on.
   -- • 2-up: OK, so "1-up" means the match went the full 18 holes, and a score such as "2 and 1" means it ended early. So why do we sometimes see scores of "2-up" as a final score? If the leader was two holes up, why didn't the match end on No. 17?
      -- A score of "2-up" means that the player in the lead took the match “dormie" on the 17th hole. "Dormie" means that the leader leads by the same number of holes that remain; for example, 2-up with 2 holes to play. If you are two holes up with two holes to play, you cannot lose the match in regulation (some match play tournaments have playoffs to settle ties, the Kansas City team Challenge does not).
      -- A score of "2-up" means that the match went dormie with one hole to play - the leader was 1-up with one hole to play - and then the leader won the 18th hole.
   -- • 5 and 3: Here's the same situation. If Player A was ahead by 5 holes, then why didn't the match end with 4 holes to play instead of 3? Because the leader took the match dormie with 4 holes to play (4 up with 4 holes to go), then won the next hole for a final score of 5 and 3. Similar scores are 4 and 2 and 3 and 1.

Tournaments / Re: East Vs. West 2015
« on: March 08, 2015, 11:22:42 pm »
Rules are 90% done.  I just need to write up the matches "draft" process.  Look for an official thread by tomorrow evening.

What's Facebook?    (I know what it is, but you know what I mean)  We give TD's our contact info; email, phone #, etc. all the time.  For important individual things like your spot in an event, one should be contacted directly via that contact info, not through some social media site.

General Banter / Re: East Side TEAM page
« on: March 08, 2015, 04:03:44 pm »
I will also have a qualifier at swope to keep the west side team on their heels in not knowing exactly which course we will use until the official announcement is made on the Sunday course for the challenge.

Are you saying you will not announce the course we are playing until that day? I don't really think you can do that. We should be able to plan where we have to go on Sunday. While I'm all for gamesmanship, we should know where the F we are playing. Don't be that guy.

I don't think he meant it that way, Dick.  Though I suppose it could be read that way.  It's another item that doesn't have any "rules" around it.  But I may have to make a rule, in the future, for codifying the event so others can take it over.   Or I can leave it alone (no codifying) and simply expect the captains will be respectful of their competitors by providing the course selection well ahead of time.

General Banter / Re: East Side TEAM page
« on: March 06, 2015, 10:45:50 am »
We've learned to do things at the last minute here in the East in order to adjust to last minute rules changes of years past.

Please, give me an example of a "last minute" rule change, Jose.

Each year, the rules were set months before the event.  This year is no different. Official rules will be posted this weekend, three months ahead of the event. There is only one change over last year; In past years putting after a hole is completed was not allowed, it will be allowed going forward beginning with Team Challenge of 2015. I already stated such weeks ago.

Also, I am available for both captains (anyone really) to contact with any questions or concerns, bounce ideas off of, whatever.  Always have been available to make this event competitive, fun and successful. 

General Banter / Re: West Side Team Page
« on: March 04, 2015, 09:52:36 am »
General question for the weekend of the event. This would be two rounds each on Saturday and Sunday? One in the morning and one in the afternoon?

Just trying to plan ahead for my work schedule, as I likely won't be able to take off the whole weekend.

Just one round on Saturday (alternate shot dubs).  It'll be up to Joe to decide what time of day.  Then two rounds on Sunday  (best shot dubs in the morning and then singles matches in the afternoon)

Tournaments / Re: East Vs. West 2015
« on: March 03, 2015, 11:43:43 am »
Steve Dresser has accepted captaining East side.  Now I am on the hook for info.  However, all guidelines and rules will be the same as last year with the exception of practice putting once a holes outcome is determined; doing so will be allowed.  I'll attempt to get all the details posted by this weekend.

West side has their player selection process posted.  East side, Steve, I suggest you do the same as soon as possible.  Also Steve, on Sunday, June 7, you'll be hosting the best shot doubles and singles matches at a MO. KCFDC course of your choice. 

It would be nice, not to mention respectful to the course and those that play it regularly, to remove temp tee marking flags after you've held an event at a course.  Two months later and the flags set out for this FTL are still there. Please remove the flags, Harold. There is going to be a PDGA event at Wyco in just over two weeks.  We don't need random flags confusing people, because, well... they will.

Tournaments / Re: East Vs. West 2015
« on: February 18, 2015, 02:05:38 pm »
It's not final. I was just asking.   East side still needs to make their Captain announcement official.  or something.

Has Dresser's nomination been seconded, approved by 2/3rds of the voting party, baptized in the Nile or whatever east side has in their by-laws to get this rolling?

Kidding aside, all I need, at this point, is Steve saying "I got it!" 

General Banter / Re: 2015 KC Schedule and surrounding area
« on: February 06, 2015, 08:05:04 am »
I am running the Midwest Doubles Championship and sorry to bother everyone.  I moved it to that date without realizing the conflict and just have not had time to move it from this thread until now.  I put it back to its original date in April.  I would never try to intentionally conflict with a club event.

I have updated the main page with most of the events i noticed in this thread

Thanks Scott.

General Banter / Re: 2015 KC Schedule and surrounding area
« on: February 05, 2015, 10:42:04 am »
It is the Kansas City Team Challenge. 

The event has already been scheduled. It was put on the BoD calendar on Jan. 5th.  I went to the board meeting in Jan. to determine the event date. Other dates were considered and discussed, but it was agreed by the BoD that this is the best date, in the local schedule, for the event. Consulting with the BoD is what you're supposed to do when adding an event to the local calendar. In addition, working with the board on the date makes it such that my actions can't be taken as, Mrs. Walker unilateral shenanigans.

I don't think all weeknights is a better solution.  It may work for some, but I am pretty sure, it won't work for most.  It would also open a can of worms about which weeknights should be used to work around availability of players on each side... nightmare.

I made a proposal to temporarily solve the issue but also countered with why that wouldn't be great. Previously, I was inferring that the MDC change their date.  It is better if this event remains on the same weekend every year, so that it can be planned around.  I have offered Friday night Alt shot doubles as a possibility in the past. Was met with some resistance, as some have to work. But it is a possible solution to having both the challenge and the MDC on the same weekend. Lee, I like the idea that we celebrate together, as Kansas City disc golfers, Friday night, after the first round. Alt round host throws the party? As long as MDC is Saturday only, we could run the KCTC on Friday evening and Sunday.

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