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Messages - Tracy

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Tournaments / Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« on: May 18, 2014, 09:18:50 pm »
The BV East Side qualifier brought four players to Captain Jose's team:

Steve Dresser
Mike Thomas
Zeke Henry
Tony Burnett

They did not have enough players there that we're not already committed to other events to fill the fifth spot available that day. As such, Jose will be selecting one player to fill his squad to the minimum 16.

Both sides are having issue with players not able to play all three rounds.  So each captain will be picking up up to four alternates to use as they choose for each round.  Any player may start in any round.  But no mid-round substitutes. 

Tournaments / Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« on: May 18, 2014, 09:10:06 pm »
The allegiance amendment proposal has been dropped. You must live on the side you play for.

This is a fundraising event with each participants $10 donation going towards course tree planting projects.

Each team will field 16-20 players.  It is an Open, or if that term is somehow confusing, an unrestricted, event now.  There are no classification requirements or restrictions. Everyone keeps saying "keep it simple."  This is as simple as it gets and was decided upon months ago.

There are but a handful of competitive women disc golfers in the area.  Forcing women representation on each team at 10-12.5% of the team is terribly disproportionate to the actual population of competitive players in the KC area.  I hope someday, the women's competitive disc golf population becomes as vibrant as the men's is.  When that happens, perhaps a women's Team Challenge can be organized. I do truly hope so because the women disc golfers around here are all amazing people.

Now for the real account of what happened:
As I posted months ago in this thread, it was all along my plan to eventually make this event player unrestricted, including not having a women requirement.  I felt that this year was as good as any to make that change. I first spoke with Dick about the change. He initially said he wanted to keep the women specifically. After some convincing on the phone, I got him to agree with whatever East side would agree to.  I think he figured East side would not agree to a pure unrestricted format.  I then communicated with Jose that I wanted to change the event to an all open format.  And he agreed to it. I specifically stated that this also meant no women required. Jose was ok with that; agreeing with me that it was right to have the best on each side playing, not restricted by classification.. I was actually quite surprised, but also glad he approved the change to unrestricted play, because that is what I envisioned all along. Jose, you had the opportunity to disapprove of this then, but did not. To support the fact that what I just stated is what was agreed upon, consider the following: We proceeded with qualifiers, this year, without a requirement for women because that was the change that was enacted.  Otherwise, I would have made sure the captains had at least one woman make each team via qualifier as we had done in the past.

The change to an unrestricted format for the Team Challenge was finalized months ago. Qualifiers were held in accordance with the agreed upon change.  That's it. That simple. That said, either team may carry anyone they want to fill their roster.  There are no longer any classification requirements for the KCFDC Team Challenge. If a side wants to bring more or less masters than the other side, they are welcome to. If a side wants to bring more or less women than the other side, they are welcome to, same for juniors, legends, toddlers.  whatever, it's UNRESTRICTED.  Go Team Challenge!

Tournaments / Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« on: May 16, 2014, 03:53:27 pm »
Is there a final roster for the East Side yet?

The final rosters aren't actually set 'til the 3rd round match ups are created.  This is done to give the captains as much flexibility as possible and to encourage as much participation as possible.  That said, the captains need to determine tentatively who they will be rostering soon. So we can get shirts ordered for those that will need them. East Side's initial, not necessarily 1st round starting, 16 should be determined already, as Jose chose to fill those spots from all qualifying events. Though we're still waiting on the BV league qualifier results. Joe/Dick are in the process of adding captains picks to the West Side's inital list.  I'll be in touch with both sides this weekend.  Hopefully, we'll be able to post tentative rosters, for each side, by Monday.

Cliff Drive / Re: 5/5 League
« on: May 16, 2014, 03:29:11 pm »
jimbo, jose, do either of you have the official results from this?

Cliff Drive / Re: 5/5 League
« on: May 15, 2014, 08:16:17 am »
Who has the complete results?  Please post them.

Tournaments / Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« on: May 14, 2014, 08:12:41 pm »
It's a combination of Big Blue and Little Blue.

Existing holes and/or safari style? Please post the layout you plan to use.

Tournaments / Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« on: May 14, 2014, 07:58:25 pm »
To be honest, I can't get a response back from the east side leader about getting a shirt, so not sure I'll be playing at all...

Tank, just let me know what size, I'll make sure to get a shirt on order for you.  I'm still waiting on the list of shirt requirements myself.  yeah, yeah, I'm going to take care of it even though I said I wasn't. I was kind of hoping for a shirt change, but neither captain was up for driving that. Jose and Dick are too busy and it's just better to go through one source to get this done.

Tournaments / Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« on: May 13, 2014, 05:06:45 pm »
so what about the Tank rule.....he lives in MO now.....meets NONE of the A B or C, since he moved prior to this motion, would he be eligible to be the "only" player to play on both, or is he now considered a West Sider for the life of his disc golf career?

There is no Tank rule on the table.  He is now an East sider.  None of the allegiances apply to him either.   Should there be a "once team X always team X" rule?   :-\   I don't know. It doesn't seem as valid as a home state allegiance rule.

Tournaments / Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« on: May 13, 2014, 04:53:59 pm »
You know it doesn't say Kansas or Missouri team.  It says East and West side. 

<West Sider, not arbitrator speaking here>

It says East and West side, but we all know it's Kansas vs Missouri.

Maybe we try North vs South next year with say 50th as the dividing line?   The only way to divide it fairly would be to analyze a map with each person of our current membership plotted on it. Then draw the line such that 50% live north of that line and 50% live south of it.  Now that's some complicated stuff.  :P

The current split being on the state line is actually an arbitrary placement for an E vs W competition.  This thing is KS vs MO.  As such, why not let those that can prove allegiance to their state to play for the side their heart is with?

Tournaments / Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« on: May 13, 2014, 03:55:37 pm »
I am just trying to arbitrate a proposal.

The allegiance amendment is not meant to create a loophole for one specific case. I don't even know for sure that Shanan meets any of the criteria I laid out.  As I mentioned, there have been others come forward and say.  "I live on X side of the state line but would rather die than play for side X. I grew up in state Y and my allegiance is there."  This rule change would help include those individuals.

The event will morph and mature.  In the beginning, I could have easily set the radius of residence to something much smaller, simpler, which would have excluded active players in our community. But I chose to set it out to 50 miles to include those active individuals. This event isn't about excluding quality players, it is about trying to include the best we have in the area for a competitive and camaraderie building event.

Eric, under the allegiance amendment, you could play for KS, if you wanted to. But if you chose to, you would thereafter have to play for KS.  C is worded incorrectly, I will correct it.

Anyway, yes, this would add an order of complexity. Perhaps there doesn't need to be any "official rule" at all.  Perhaps, the Captains of both sides can see the value in letting the best players compete in this event if even across border from where they reside.  Between them they can decide if an individual would be allowed to play via allegiance.  This could be done on a case by case basis as they arise.  It's up to the captains, either way, at this point.

Tournaments / Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« on: May 13, 2014, 08:52:04 am »
For your information, on the table, and has been in discussion between the team captains and myself, is an issue of state allegiance.  This is an issue that has come up before, particularly the first year, when I wasn't prepared to think about it, in the rush to get the event underway that Fall.  I don't believe it was mentioned last year, but probably would have affected the same folks asking about it the previous year.  To be honest, I don't think the people in question would have made either sides team, however could obviously been captains picked.  The difference this year is a player, that had been on a team previously, has moved out of his state of allegiance.  That player is Shanan Carson.

Anyway, the issue is players living on one side of the state line, but their true allegiance is to the other state.  This issue will continue to crop if not addressed at this time when it affects a team level player.

I am posting this so there is no mistaking what is being proposed.

A player living on one side of the state line, but wanting to play for the other side has to meet at least one of the following criteria to claim state allegiance:

A) Raised in and graduated high school in said state, 
B) Graduated from College in said state,
C) Have had residency in said state continuously, in the past, for 15+ years

That's it, no other reasons will be accepted to establish true allegiance.  Players still need to meet the currently living within the area requirement to even be considered under this amendment. 

Once a player establishes allegiance to a state and has played on that sides team, they can never play for the other side.

Finally, players that need to use the allegiance amendment to get on the team of their state allegiance must be selected with a captains pick or alternate spot.  No qualifying spots can be obtained by a player using the allegiance amendment.

Tournaments / Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« on: May 13, 2014, 07:46:43 am »
Top 5 plus ties made the West Side team at yesterdays Lakeside Hills mini:

Peter Bures - 54
Kevin Zane -56
Mark Albers - 56
Frank Weaver - 56
Lee Killian - 57
Bryan Guthrie - 57

West Side will be using Captain's selections to fill the remaining 3 slots on the starting 16 plus up to 4 alternates.

All qualified players on both sides get in contact with their captain asap, if you haven't already, to let them know of your availability for the event on June 8/9.

Captains, for team shirt orders, I'd like a count of your needs by Thursday.  Much appreciated.

Lakeside Hills / Re: 05-12-14 BIRDLAND MINI
« on: May 13, 2014, 07:33:18 am »
Top 5 plus ties made it on to the West Side team:

Peter Bures
Kevin Zane
Mark Albers
Frank Weaver
Lee Killian
Bryan Guthrie

Cliff Drive / Re: 5/5 League
« on: May 12, 2014, 01:22:58 pm »
Still waiting on the complete set of results.

Tournaments / Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« on: May 12, 2014, 01:17:06 pm »
With Dick being super busy with KCWO TD work, Joe Hesting has volunteered to assistant captain on the West Side to take care of the grunt work in finalizing the KS team.  Thanks Joe.

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