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Messages - John Chapman

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Barter Town / Re: Looking for KCWO Silver 25th Anniverservery dx Rocs
« on: November 08, 2011, 10:41:27 PM »
I might have a couple. I'll check my stash and see. I'll be putting some stuff on Ebay soon, so I have to go through the stash anyway.

And I'd want cash.....I don't need to trade for any more discs...I'm actually trying to decrease inventory, but that's not going well for me.

General Banter / Re: There was USDGC bad, and now there's this
« on: November 06, 2011, 12:39:09 AM »
there are quite a few "top pro's" that smoke......

Glad to see that is a HIGH priority to fix, because its been the TOP of my list for whats wrong at a PDGA event for some time now..... :-X

Indeed, many of the "top pros" smoke.  Ken Climo's voice wasn't always that raspy. :) And George Smith might not be able to play ever again if he doesn't get to chain smoke during a round.

The smoking issue should be taken care of venue by venue. Dry and windy, definitely no smoky. Otherwise, let the venue dictate the rules for the property. Graceland doesn't allow smoking on campus, so no smoke on campus, or walk to the street or over the fence to the lagoon to smoke. Designated smoking area, problem solved.

Personally, I think it was just an issue that didn't really need to be dealt with. Sort of like Congress reaffirming that "In God We Trust" would stay on the money for the foreseeable future. Of course, if Congress said nothing about it this week, "In God We Trust" would have still been printed/stamped on the didn't need to be reaffirmed. You'd think they had more important matters to attend to.

General Banter / Re: Forum clock....
« on: November 06, 2011, 12:30:53 AM »

Try imagining space without time.   :-\

Well played, Mr. Sagan.

General Banter / Re: Explosion near Jackson Park
« on: November 06, 2011, 12:29:05 AM »
I've got cousins that haul grain to that elevator on a regular basis. Cousins are safe and sound, and I'm glad Charlie is too.

If you ask me, Shaggy and Ziploc can almost be used interchangeably. Why shed older nicknames when you can add a nickname?

Jack, blaming Pete for his mishap. Or perhaps failing to heed Pete's advice.

General Banter / Re: OK... I'm gonna say it... It's a joke
« on: October 16, 2011, 09:47:08 AM »
What's with Jack and his goto driver QMS?  Hehehehe...............................

It's PDGA "Appoved."

General Banter / Re: OK... I'm gonna say it... It's a joke
« on: October 09, 2011, 11:44:08 AM »
It would be fun to take my 910 rating out there and see what happens just playing "stay in the fairway and make some putts" type of golf.


   You could shoot under 70 out there, if everything went right for you. There were a couple of holes I played idiotically. I made it through the first 8 holes one round at par! Then hole 9 and 10 came up, and I played those holes horribly all week. If I'd been able to keep everything in bounds for a round, I have shot low 70s. Of course, that's much easier said than done.

Its a 2 dayer, really????

Club championships have always been two days here, and for good reason. It determines the champion of the club, so it should be more rigorous.

Usually, we've played one round at each course. For this event, I think that's good. I'm normally a proponent of getting a second chance at playing a course, but in this tournament everyone should know the courses fairly well. I think the course selection sounds good. I was going to recommend that Young be one of the courses, if anyone asked. Otherwise, I think the choices are ok. Only one of the big 3 is used (Rosey, not WW or Swope), and Wyco is a good call also, as who knows how long that course will still be around.  3 newer courses with 1 of the old standbys, and a good mix of tighter and more open.


Tournaments / Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« on: September 21, 2011, 09:34:22 PM »
At a BIG event and if there are BIG pros there, I would rather play one less round and watch the pro's play their final round or final 9.  I was more than bummed at the 28th WO when we weren't going to get to watch the Pro's play at all after driving several hours to play in the tourney.  I also think there should be a clear divide between AM & Pro divisions with the # of rounds played, to provide more incentive to play up.  Don't try and man-up an AM format and then act all tough because you completed the 4th round better than lesser Am's.  That's just being silly, you're an AM, you ain't tough...

As for the players pack, I would think a minimum includes a disc and shirt or something along those lines.  If ya gotta skim from the entry fee to make that happen, that's cool.  But don't take $15 out of my entry fee for a disc that costs $6.  The prices of tourney stamped discs are available to everyone so that's just dumb and shady to me.  If you can do more in the players pack, great, but don't do it at the expense of an average payout.

There are many people who share your views, but the actual numbers play out that when Ams only get to play 3 rounds in the Wide Open, they don't show up as much for the event. There are ways to get out to see the pros (early Sunday getaway round, with 5 rounds total in a 3-day event), that don't involve cutting the number of rounds. Not sure about what you by "manning up", but it's always appropriate for players to play in a division that suits their relative skill level. I can (and have) played Open in several tourneys, including the Wide Open and Worlds over the years. I enjoyed the experience but pretty much got my clock cleaned every time, and that was 20 years ago when I could throw pretty well (time and back surgery have reduced into a weenie arm that is also a former great putter). The point is, people should play in whatever division fits their skill level and makes the experience more fun for them. I have played Advanced or Intermediate instead of Advanced Masters if I liked the course setup for those divisions better at an event.

Keep those ideas coming....there's a lot of good ones.

As far as discs go, retail price is always always fair value for discs in the player package. If you'd pay $15 for a disc at DGW at regular price, valuing it at $15 for a players package is very fair.

Tournaments / Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« on: September 21, 2011, 09:23:11 PM »
09 city of fountains. I payed 23$ got a nice shirt for the players pack. I think there were 6 or 7 in am1. I won, got 8 kckash and no trophy. I'm comparing that to 2010 kalamazoo championship. I payed 25$ including ace fund and got a nice disc. Although I didn't win, Larry Labond paid first place 60 and second place 40 and only 5 played. I'm sure there is a whole bunch of factors thrown in there to set apart TD's that I don't know, so that's why I don't really care, because there is probably a bigger picture that I'm missing. I'll definitely be coming back for the wide open when I don't play usadgc or if they're on different weekends. I wish I could afford to play wide open pro field, but donating 160$ to feldberg and nikko just doesn't sound that fun or reasonable to me after travel money and junk. And like I said I'm sure there are different factors that seperate TD's and maybe those 2 tourneys aren't the best to compare each other to but that's the kind of stuff that stands out to players over time. And of course my experience is way worse than others I'm sure. Cause I bet at the wide open the trophy's are already made and ordered and sitting at the scorers table and you don't have to wait on em.

Again, this something you need to tell Jack (and I'm sure he'll read this), but that doesn't sound right to me on the surface. I'm almost sure a mistake was made there, but I could be wrong.

Tournaments / Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« on: September 21, 2011, 09:18:19 AM »
I don't want to come off as bitter because I really don't care now about that past tourney. Everyone has different reasons for playing and not playing certain tourneys and you can't make everyone happy at every tourney. I prefer non trophy tourneys.

It's really instructive to express these sorts of things directly to the TD ASAP after the event. As Jack will tell you, the only way to offend Jack is to think that you CAN offend Jack, so any feedback is crucial, and it helps improves future events. Also, TDs do sometimes make mistakes and forget things, so it's possible Jack has no idea that a trophy disc was due you, and had he known, he would have dealt with it immediately. Aaron, I think most your criticisms are valid, but as far as the "crappy" payout, usually ams are paid back over 100% at a Jack Lowe event, but he has strived to keep Am entry fees lower at his events in the recent past, so that may or may not account for the apparent reduction in prizes. (And I'm not lumping the 2011 KCWO into this discussion, since it was trophy-only.) I'd like to know what the event you're complaining about is, so I can put it in the proper context. If you're comparing the am payout at the Mighty Mo to the GLO, that's not a fair comparison. If you're comparing it to a C-Tier with the same entry fees, then that WOULD be a fair comaprison.

As far as trophy-only goes, I don't think it's the reason for the low-turnout. I think the main reason is only getting to play 3 rounds. Dan Cashen tried this once back around 2006 or 2007, and the Am field suffered because of it. When you see the pros geting to play 4 or 5 rounds, and you only get to play 3, you feel a little bit jilted. That being said, I've always thought that the best combo of prizes was not trophy-only or prizes only (no players pack), but some sort of combo of both. There's nothing like finishing 20th out 50 in an amateur field and getting to say "I 'cashed' ". The fact that that prize is likely one DX plastic Eagle is not the point. It's more of a self-sense of accomplishment. We aren't giving trophies out that deep, I wouldn't think, so I think you lose some of that feeling in trophy-only. However, getting a cool player pack with cool stuff is very nice as well. I think maybe we need to brainstorm ideas to make the player pack more enticing for ams...what kind of stuff do you think is cool that you will actually use?

Tournaments / Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« on: September 20, 2011, 01:55:34 PM »
I know about 20 ams up here in michigan that did not wanna play wide open due to trophy only. I'm not sure what's going on in KC but Larry Labond (08 world's TD) tourney's in michigan have been far better in one year than KC tourneys were in 3 yrs I played there, except for Loomis' olathe open. I know you probably don't care if 20 michiganders come down there, but that's just what I can add in this convo. I along with a lot of ams aren't set on trophy only. And I know I've said this before but I "won" a trophy at 09 city of fountains that I have yet to receive. So what would make me ever wanna play a "trophy only" tourney again? I heard horrible things about Jack Lowe tourney's but still gave em a shot. Poorly ran tourneys news will spread throughout the USA!! Loomis and Larry Labond for President!!! Come play Michigan, you won't be disappointed!!! Well, at the right TD tourneys! :)

No arguments against Larry, he ran a decent Worlds, and I've never been to any other event of his. Michigan ams won't come to the Wide Open as long the Great Lakes Amateur Championship, I mean USADGC ( a good event, not bashing it, but it's pretty much a regional event with a few people from outside a Great Lakes State) is on the same weekend. Frankly, there aren't many people from here that are going to travel to Michigan, either, and it's really more a function of distance form the event. Why would I travel 8-10 hours to Michigan when I have a great tourney less than 3 hours away in KC, Columbia, Des Moines, Emporia, Omaha, Lincoln, etc.... Michigan has so many events that they don't really need to leave the state ever.

Tournaments / Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« on: September 20, 2011, 01:40:21 PM »
2. BIGGER PAYOUT for Pros. As far as I understand it that has been the knock against the KCWO for a while. To get people to come to this event there needs to be a way to make travel money back and the way to do that is to beef up payout (obviously easier said than done, maybe a title sponsor?). Along with maintaining NT status this will keep the event as prestigious as it needs to be.

I have NEVER heard that about KC, the only payout complaints have been on the AM side, where did you come up (hear, perception from others etc....curious) with this idea?

I had heard this from a few pros in the past, but not for several years. Their argument at the time was that the winner got less than in other tournaments, until I pointed out that we actually paid out more, but the distribution was flatter and deeper. Since that time, the rest of the DG world has come around to our way of thinking, and what we have been doing all along is now commonplace.


Tournaments / Re: Latvian Open this weekend
« on: September 10, 2011, 01:26:46 AM »
Baltic Sea Tour # 6, am i high or is Seppo Nieminan the lowest pdga number<1710> ever to play intermediate? or both.

You're high.

Seppo is a Finnish Frisbee legend, and that's not a joke. He basically got disc golf started in Finland back in the 70s. Don't mess with Seppo. As far as I'm concerned , he can play in any division he wants to.

General Banter / Re: newest course in town?
« on: September 07, 2011, 08:06:05 PM »
could it be because nobody believed that was a mini in your pocket?
He was happy to see her. Well, happy to see the beer at least.

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