Well there are a lot of par 2 holes out there.. Cliff drive is an example of a challenging course.. The best golfer will walk away with an 8 under if they shoot lights out. But thats it. I'm sure someone WILL come along and do better but not every time. So courses need to be designed with a little more length and alot more thought. The days of building swope or prairie center are gone. New courses should all hold a 1000 rating at around 62-63 and a par of 67-68. That should just be in the design. I know not every peice of land we aquire can hold that type of course but when we have the land to work with like I dont know BV or Shawnee lets UTILIZE it to it best potential. We are known for our world class courses and we should only improve and try to push the boundries to reach a new platform in our course design. I think considering 75' "circles" around our baskets to be greens is a good start. It will make us possibly rethink the way we design holes. Yes they may get longer but the par 4s will be par 4s and the par 5s (dare we do it) will take 4 SHOTS to get there and one solid putt. What about bunkers like those in Highbridge but put them around that 50-75' mark where you have to avoid areas in your landing path our your 30' back. Though the idea has it's flaws the mere thought might interest more ideas.