511
General Banter / Re: Blue valley is a winter wonder land
« on: December 16, 2011, 09:39:56 AM »
Cooper. I'm in.
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512
General Banter / Re: 43 & Sunny
« on: December 15, 2011, 12:13:23 PM »
the crows seemed to be calling his name, thought Caw.
513
General Banter / Re: 90 days of disc golf: 2012 - The Year of the Honey Badger
« on: December 13, 2011, 05:00:05 PM »
I can't run backward any better than I can run forward, but I guess that comparison is better than a lot of other ones you could have come up with regarding Honey Badgers.
Okay, Glass Blown is in. Minnesota is out.
We will be having a disc sale to raise some moola for the extended part of the tour. I have six bins of new and used discs (not all of them are Loomis green) for sale, almost all of the discs are 6 to 8 bucks. Even new star plastic, etc. You will be helping us out a bunch if you buy one or two.
I have a special team stamp Z buzzz to sell which will be more than 8 bucks. Just FYI.
And it is indeed, Mr. Coburn I am channeling. From what I can tell, he is the only person Chuck Norris is scared of.
Okay, Glass Blown is in. Minnesota is out.
We will be having a disc sale to raise some moola for the extended part of the tour. I have six bins of new and used discs (not all of them are Loomis green) for sale, almost all of the discs are 6 to 8 bucks. Even new star plastic, etc. You will be helping us out a bunch if you buy one or two.
I have a special team stamp Z buzzz to sell which will be more than 8 bucks. Just FYI.
And it is indeed, Mr. Coburn I am channeling. From what I can tell, he is the only person Chuck Norris is scared of.
514
General Banter / 90 days of disc golf: 2012 - The Year of the Honey Badger
« on: December 13, 2011, 12:00:18 AM »
How better to follow up a Big Year in disc golf than to go after an even Bigger Year. After all the great feedback we've received from everyone who read our adventures and were nice enough to share some of their great ideas with us; and after some careful soul searching, number crunching and a few scheduling conflicts resolved by "Eenie-meanie-miney-moe" we have come up with this: TOUR 2012: Go Pro or Go Home!
After we posted our tale for everyone to read, the most common thing we heard was, "what was the best course you played?" which is then closely followed up by "where are you going next?" The first question was hard to answer as there is just too much great disc golf in the world for one person (or two) to narrow down to just one course. I change my mind every time the wind changes direction. I am pretty sure most people do the same thing when they're asked the same question. No one plays just one course all the time (if they can help it), your mood changes and you dig a new sort of course. Such is the problem with deciding which is my favorite course; on certain days I know it's Delaveaga. On other days, it's Pier Park, or Waterworks. I just don't know.
The second question, "Where are you going next?" is just as difficult to answer.
We left a lot of courses behind on our quest to see it all. We barely touched Texas, never saw Florida, and didn't see anything Northeast of Kentucky. So this year it's all about seeing new courses, taking new risks, and turning Pro. I would like to think that I am going to wait until after Worlds, but the hard fact is that the only tournaments I am playing this year that I played LAST year, are the AM Majors. The rest of the tournaments I play this year (even if I sneak in one or two that I played last year) are going to be on the Pro side. However, if by some crazy miracle I happen to cash in a tournament before Worlds, then I will play Pro at Worlds (secretly my reason to turn Pro before Worlds is that there is a vicious rumor that the Adv Pool won't be playing Rennie Gold or Charlotte's Web for Worlds).
Waiting for the PDGA to update the tour season is nerve-racking, but with each new day comes a fresh batch of opportunities and the numbers get re-crunched. So far we have come up with this...
March:
The Memorial in Phoenix. ADVANCED
People can't say enough wonderful things about this tournament so we are going. The trip itself is cheap save for one. A rental car in Phoenix will cost us the same amount of money as a plane ticket and the hotel for the week. That's crazy! Yet we are in like Flint. It's two rounds at Fountain Hill and one round at Vista Del Camino. After three months of frozen-ness, this tournament is going to seem like Parole.
Bowling Green Am Championships. ADVANCED
We played last year and there are some revenge issues for me and someone else wants another golden mini basket for her living room. No word on the schedule.
April:
Glass Blown. PRO.
If they have the country club course, I will play. If not, I have to save the money for later in the season.
May:
Minnesota Am Championships. ADVANCED
It's two rounds at Kaposia, which may or may not be worth it, I don't know. I'm waiting on this one too.
June:
Kansas City Wide Open. PRO.
Very first tournament I ever played. Time to play it again. No word on the courses yet, but I'm in even if it's four rounds at SM Park. (what happened to Dirk Hacker???)
US Am Nationals. ADVANCED
Toboggan. I forgot to review this course. I probably should. Last time I get to see this course so I need to go resolve some issues I have with that course.
Beaver State Fling. PRO.
Milo McIver is a biiiiiig course. I want to see how they make it "harder" for this tournament.
Fort Stealicoom Open. PRO.
I played my first round of disc golf ever on this course.
After all of that, then this happens...
JULY:
Worlds. Unsure.
The insanity of what this tournament will be like will be immeasurable. If you miss it, it will be the one great disc golf event of your life time that you will regret having not been a part of. Get there. I think most Pools get to play one round at Winthrop Gold. That's reason enough.
Pittsburgh Flying Disc Open. PRO.
Never been there but the brochure looks nice. Tough wooded courses. A new experience lots of courses in North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Deleware and Pennslyvania to play before we get there.
Brent Hambrick. PRO.
Again, never been and I hear this is Milo McIver East... with a Dam. So I am very excited to play this as well. Courses in Ohio, Kentucky and West Virginia to take in.
Rochestor Open. PRO.
These are the AM worlds courses from 2011, but I didn't go so I am making it up by heading up there next year. On the way; New York and Canada sites to take in.
Vibram. PRO.
Honestly, I doubt I will get in, but I can try. And I'm going regardless. It's a great course, and it's surrounded by a lot of other great courses. So this is a must do, gotta go, no choice, gun to the head, done deal. Courses in New Hampshire, Vermont, Connecticut and Massachusetts to explore. And, if possible, Maine.
The rest of the tour is open wide. Starting with Worlds, it's six solid weeks on the road without a break, so we might be wiped out by then and need to retreat. But the tour doesn't stop for us and we still want to see Florida and Texas... Ah... Maybe next year.
If you have any suggestions about courses along the way you feel we have to see, please send them along. We love input. And if you want to help out with the tour, please let us know, we only have so many discs to sell for gas and we're in need of good ideas.
I will update the tour stops as they work themselves out.
Loomis
After we posted our tale for everyone to read, the most common thing we heard was, "what was the best course you played?" which is then closely followed up by "where are you going next?" The first question was hard to answer as there is just too much great disc golf in the world for one person (or two) to narrow down to just one course. I change my mind every time the wind changes direction. I am pretty sure most people do the same thing when they're asked the same question. No one plays just one course all the time (if they can help it), your mood changes and you dig a new sort of course. Such is the problem with deciding which is my favorite course; on certain days I know it's Delaveaga. On other days, it's Pier Park, or Waterworks. I just don't know.
The second question, "Where are you going next?" is just as difficult to answer.
We left a lot of courses behind on our quest to see it all. We barely touched Texas, never saw Florida, and didn't see anything Northeast of Kentucky. So this year it's all about seeing new courses, taking new risks, and turning Pro. I would like to think that I am going to wait until after Worlds, but the hard fact is that the only tournaments I am playing this year that I played LAST year, are the AM Majors. The rest of the tournaments I play this year (even if I sneak in one or two that I played last year) are going to be on the Pro side. However, if by some crazy miracle I happen to cash in a tournament before Worlds, then I will play Pro at Worlds (secretly my reason to turn Pro before Worlds is that there is a vicious rumor that the Adv Pool won't be playing Rennie Gold or Charlotte's Web for Worlds).
Waiting for the PDGA to update the tour season is nerve-racking, but with each new day comes a fresh batch of opportunities and the numbers get re-crunched. So far we have come up with this...
March:
The Memorial in Phoenix. ADVANCED
People can't say enough wonderful things about this tournament so we are going. The trip itself is cheap save for one. A rental car in Phoenix will cost us the same amount of money as a plane ticket and the hotel for the week. That's crazy! Yet we are in like Flint. It's two rounds at Fountain Hill and one round at Vista Del Camino. After three months of frozen-ness, this tournament is going to seem like Parole.
Bowling Green Am Championships. ADVANCED
We played last year and there are some revenge issues for me and someone else wants another golden mini basket for her living room. No word on the schedule.
April:
Glass Blown. PRO.
If they have the country club course, I will play. If not, I have to save the money for later in the season.
May:
Minnesota Am Championships. ADVANCED
It's two rounds at Kaposia, which may or may not be worth it, I don't know. I'm waiting on this one too.
June:
Kansas City Wide Open. PRO.
Very first tournament I ever played. Time to play it again. No word on the courses yet, but I'm in even if it's four rounds at SM Park. (what happened to Dirk Hacker???)
US Am Nationals. ADVANCED
Toboggan. I forgot to review this course. I probably should. Last time I get to see this course so I need to go resolve some issues I have with that course.
Beaver State Fling. PRO.
Milo McIver is a biiiiiig course. I want to see how they make it "harder" for this tournament.
Fort Stealicoom Open. PRO.
I played my first round of disc golf ever on this course.
After all of that, then this happens...
JULY:
Worlds. Unsure.
The insanity of what this tournament will be like will be immeasurable. If you miss it, it will be the one great disc golf event of your life time that you will regret having not been a part of. Get there. I think most Pools get to play one round at Winthrop Gold. That's reason enough.
Pittsburgh Flying Disc Open. PRO.
Never been there but the brochure looks nice. Tough wooded courses. A new experience lots of courses in North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Deleware and Pennslyvania to play before we get there.
Brent Hambrick. PRO.
Again, never been and I hear this is Milo McIver East... with a Dam. So I am very excited to play this as well. Courses in Ohio, Kentucky and West Virginia to take in.
Rochestor Open. PRO.
These are the AM worlds courses from 2011, but I didn't go so I am making it up by heading up there next year. On the way; New York and Canada sites to take in.
Vibram. PRO.
Honestly, I doubt I will get in, but I can try. And I'm going regardless. It's a great course, and it's surrounded by a lot of other great courses. So this is a must do, gotta go, no choice, gun to the head, done deal. Courses in New Hampshire, Vermont, Connecticut and Massachusetts to explore. And, if possible, Maine.
The rest of the tour is open wide. Starting with Worlds, it's six solid weeks on the road without a break, so we might be wiped out by then and need to retreat. But the tour doesn't stop for us and we still want to see Florida and Texas... Ah... Maybe next year.
If you have any suggestions about courses along the way you feel we have to see, please send them along. We love input. And if you want to help out with the tour, please let us know, we only have so many discs to sell for gas and we're in need of good ideas.
I will update the tour stops as they work themselves out.
Loomis
515
Tournaments / Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« on: December 09, 2011, 06:38:57 PM »
It wouldn't be right if I didn't say something.
Please. I beg you. Swope Gold. Rosie Gold. WW Gold. Cliff or BLue Valley. Make it hard. When you're comfortable with the course, make it harder.
Tee shirts and free discs are nice for REC and INT players and collectors. Don't stress out on it.
Pay out just needs to be decent, not excessive (unless you can afford to be excessive).
Entertain. Put ON... A... SHOW!!! Sports are just as much entertainment as they are about competition. Don't forget to think about that please.
I'm playing PRO this year, so I won't lobby one way or the other for anything.
You have absolutely everything you need to make the best tournament of the year. Don't be shy, use it all.
You have my support. I will be out picking up trash, clearing leaves and limbs, painting rings, stringing OB lines, and if I have to, kissing some ass to get attention.
I'm excited for this.
Please. I beg you. Swope Gold. Rosie Gold. WW Gold. Cliff or BLue Valley. Make it hard. When you're comfortable with the course, make it harder.
Tee shirts and free discs are nice for REC and INT players and collectors. Don't stress out on it.
Pay out just needs to be decent, not excessive (unless you can afford to be excessive).
Entertain. Put ON... A... SHOW!!! Sports are just as much entertainment as they are about competition. Don't forget to think about that please.
I'm playing PRO this year, so I won't lobby one way or the other for anything.
You have absolutely everything you need to make the best tournament of the year. Don't be shy, use it all.
You have my support. I will be out picking up trash, clearing leaves and limbs, painting rings, stringing OB lines, and if I have to, kissing some ass to get attention.
I'm excited for this.
516
General Banter / christmas ornament
« on: November 27, 2011, 04:40:42 PM »
I have a few great ideas for christmas ornaments if someone knows how to make things...
I think a small disc ornament would look cool. Thus giving the illusion that a disc got caught up in your tree.
I would also like a basket for a christmas star.
I'm sure there is someone out there with more time and talent who could put one of these things together..
I think a small disc ornament would look cool. Thus giving the illusion that a disc got caught up in your tree.
I would also like a basket for a christmas star.
I'm sure there is someone out there with more time and talent who could put one of these things together..
518
General Banter / That hole keeps kicking my ass!
« on: November 14, 2011, 09:34:28 PM »
I am plagued by hole 2 at Rosie. A simple hole. Downhill, not very long. Yet I can't stop finding the trees to the right. I am cursed.
I am curious, which course and which hole escapes you? Am I alone in this?
I am curious, which course and which hole escapes you? Am I alone in this?
519
General Banter / Re: disc golf prime time news
« on: November 13, 2011, 10:54:29 AM »
The shot of Jack walking along looking pensive is my favorite. It reminds me of the scene in Boogie Nights where Dirk Diggler is walking along the ravine.
That is very cool Jack.
That is very cool Jack.
520
General Banter / Re: I'm in Denver/Boulder
« on: November 12, 2011, 07:55:54 AM »
What sort of course do you like to play? Denver is a city of extremes. You have a tiny, yet super challenging Johnny Roberts in Arvada. It's not long at all, but it is tough. Lots of locals eat this course up.
If you want wide open, this town has that in abundance, however, at elevation, what you're throwing now won't work the same way you're use to. Less Stable is much more stable now. So if you choose bomber course like Bird's Nest or Interlocken. Those are fine.
The town has a ton of disc golf, but if you want to see some premiere courses... Head up to Conifer and Beaver Ranch. Super tough, lots of elevation and it's pretty. They are the kind of courses you play just because they're famous.
Have fun... I know there is a website that was helpful for me Mile High Disc Golf... Go check that out.
If you want wide open, this town has that in abundance, however, at elevation, what you're throwing now won't work the same way you're use to. Less Stable is much more stable now. So if you choose bomber course like Bird's Nest or Interlocken. Those are fine.
The town has a ton of disc golf, but if you want to see some premiere courses... Head up to Conifer and Beaver Ranch. Super tough, lots of elevation and it's pretty. They are the kind of courses you play just because they're famous.
Have fun... I know there is a website that was helpful for me Mile High Disc Golf... Go check that out.
521
General Banter / Re: There was USDGC bad, and now there's this
« on: November 08, 2011, 06:25:28 PM »
I guess I should work on my people skills if I am going to win that "man of the year" award.
522
General Banter / Re: There was USDGC bad, and now there's this
« on: November 08, 2011, 08:44:29 AM »
"A". I'm not the king of proper grammar, but holy sh1t man. Use a comma! Perhaps learn to spell. It's impossible to read your comments.
And again,
Play all you want, smoke all you want. Whine about your mythical smoking rights all you want. You and your father can sit around and tally up the membership numbers of the smokers' rights organizations and start sending out letters explaining your unappreciated and unnoticed genius to all the entities of the world that don't want you around. Perhaps you can even explain how much you would rather smoke than do anything else with your life (I am going to put learn to spell in this category). But just understand this "A" (is it just A to make it easier for you to spell?) you and your dad are a small fraction of a larger equation. If you choose smoking "rights" over PDGA play, good for you. You won't be missed. I realize by saying this professional disc golf might lose some true disc golf genius or two, but hey, the world is full of Earl Manigaults. I really don't care if you and your daddy want to smoke, I just don't want you to impede what others are doing to make the sport thrive. So in that regard, I don't want you around IF you are going to be a problem. So there you have it, an explanation of my comments. Wipe away some of the smoke residue from your computer screen and read it closely. "Play all you want... Just stay out of my way."
Have fun in Arkansas. Your tournament director is a smoker. Give him a pack as a gesture of your loyalty and solidarity.
And again,
Play all you want, smoke all you want. Whine about your mythical smoking rights all you want. You and your father can sit around and tally up the membership numbers of the smokers' rights organizations and start sending out letters explaining your unappreciated and unnoticed genius to all the entities of the world that don't want you around. Perhaps you can even explain how much you would rather smoke than do anything else with your life (I am going to put learn to spell in this category). But just understand this "A" (is it just A to make it easier for you to spell?) you and your dad are a small fraction of a larger equation. If you choose smoking "rights" over PDGA play, good for you. You won't be missed. I realize by saying this professional disc golf might lose some true disc golf genius or two, but hey, the world is full of Earl Manigaults. I really don't care if you and your daddy want to smoke, I just don't want you to impede what others are doing to make the sport thrive. So in that regard, I don't want you around IF you are going to be a problem. So there you have it, an explanation of my comments. Wipe away some of the smoke residue from your computer screen and read it closely. "Play all you want... Just stay out of my way."
Have fun in Arkansas. Your tournament director is a smoker. Give him a pack as a gesture of your loyalty and solidarity.
523
General Banter / Re: There was USDGC bad, and now there's this
« on: November 07, 2011, 11:00:28 PM »
and yeah, "A" if the image was up for a vote, I would ban smoking at all events. The longer we continue to mix the leisure side with the competitive side, the sport won't grow. You have to separate the two. When you do, the leisure side with benefit from the growth of the competitive side.
However, I have never once made an issue of anyone smoking. Not once. I smoked for many, many years. Loved every second of it. But I also know that it doesn't make the sport look legit if the players are smoking while playing. No sport allows smoking during competition. I already brought that up. I think you, or Dale confirmed that fact by stating that you CAN smoke, but you have to stop competing and walk away (where no one can see you. That's odd, huh?). If people can see disc golfers smoking during sanctioned events, it makes the sport look foolish. How do you take a sport seriously if it's players can smoke while playing? That doesn't mean they can't smoke when they're not playing, but it does mean that the sport isn't matured enough to worry about its public image. Which means no big sponsors. No coverage. A catch 22 which requires the players to rethink their attitude about their sport if they want to see it grow.
However, I have never once made an issue of anyone smoking. Not once. I smoked for many, many years. Loved every second of it. But I also know that it doesn't make the sport look legit if the players are smoking while playing. No sport allows smoking during competition. I already brought that up. I think you, or Dale confirmed that fact by stating that you CAN smoke, but you have to stop competing and walk away (where no one can see you. That's odd, huh?). If people can see disc golfers smoking during sanctioned events, it makes the sport look foolish. How do you take a sport seriously if it's players can smoke while playing? That doesn't mean they can't smoke when they're not playing, but it does mean that the sport isn't matured enough to worry about its public image. Which means no big sponsors. No coverage. A catch 22 which requires the players to rethink their attitude about their sport if they want to see it grow.
524
General Banter / Re: There was USDGC bad, and now there's this
« on: November 07, 2011, 10:53:19 PM »
I'm not sure how to read "A"'s post. But it said something about kids.
Dale,
I don't know what you're involvement with disc golf has been in the past, or if you're even active in trying to keep disc golf alive in our community on a level beyond just buying discs, but you've been a colossal waste of time for me today and I appreciate that. You've really given me something to think about other than college.
I will state this plainly... again... and try not to get all Ad hominem on you. YOU are either HELPING to DEVELOP the sport into something more sustainable for everyone... (get that part.. everyone, not just the pros or the smokers) or YOU are in the way. So what is your role, Dale?
Now take your fabricated statistics about smokers and shoo. Go play all the casual rounds you want. I am here to encourage you to do so. But don't get in the way of the people trying to develop the sport into something larger than it is right now.
And just FYI... the smoking policy in place was created to HIDE smokers from PUBLIC view. What an odd idea. Why would they want to do that? What do you think?
Not all smokers are going to abandon the PDGA if they can't smoke at events. Some might, but not enough that it will have a "sizable impact" on the finances of the PDGA. Just won't happen, even if 100 smokers quit... Nope. The PDGA loses players every year (prior to the tobacco free policy) and somehow they continue to power on...
The rules of the PDGA events are vast and open wide. However, there are certain ones which don't get much flexibility. And smoking is going to be one of those rules. However, rules get broken and the TD of the event can deal with that in any way they see fit. I'm not the rules police and sadly there isn't much in the way of a disciplinary committee. However, there is a list of banned players on the PDGA website. Though no one really looks at it. But, that isn't going to hamper any publicity issues the sport has with sponsors or with the public. But the issue of smoking is an IMAGE issue. And as I explained before, ( and I think "A" reiterated somewhat) it's all about the kids. Kids drive the sport's future. AND if you want sponsor dollars, you gotta show the world there is a competitive side to the sport, which transcends the leisure activity side. All sports had to do it, and now it's disc golf to follow suit.
Still didn't tell you not to play. Just said, if you are so adamant about smoking while playing, go start your own professional disc golf league. I am calling your bluff. Never said, don't play. Just said, if you're unhappy, then quit.
Your last comments are Ad hominem dullness. I tell you what Dale, do something more than just lurk in the shadows of other people's work. Go make disc golf a better sport. Get involved.
Dale,
I don't know what you're involvement with disc golf has been in the past, or if you're even active in trying to keep disc golf alive in our community on a level beyond just buying discs, but you've been a colossal waste of time for me today and I appreciate that. You've really given me something to think about other than college.
I will state this plainly... again... and try not to get all Ad hominem on you. YOU are either HELPING to DEVELOP the sport into something more sustainable for everyone... (get that part.. everyone, not just the pros or the smokers) or YOU are in the way. So what is your role, Dale?
Now take your fabricated statistics about smokers and shoo. Go play all the casual rounds you want. I am here to encourage you to do so. But don't get in the way of the people trying to develop the sport into something larger than it is right now.
And just FYI... the smoking policy in place was created to HIDE smokers from PUBLIC view. What an odd idea. Why would they want to do that? What do you think?
Not all smokers are going to abandon the PDGA if they can't smoke at events. Some might, but not enough that it will have a "sizable impact" on the finances of the PDGA. Just won't happen, even if 100 smokers quit... Nope. The PDGA loses players every year (prior to the tobacco free policy) and somehow they continue to power on...
The rules of the PDGA events are vast and open wide. However, there are certain ones which don't get much flexibility. And smoking is going to be one of those rules. However, rules get broken and the TD of the event can deal with that in any way they see fit. I'm not the rules police and sadly there isn't much in the way of a disciplinary committee. However, there is a list of banned players on the PDGA website. Though no one really looks at it. But, that isn't going to hamper any publicity issues the sport has with sponsors or with the public. But the issue of smoking is an IMAGE issue. And as I explained before, ( and I think "A" reiterated somewhat) it's all about the kids. Kids drive the sport's future. AND if you want sponsor dollars, you gotta show the world there is a competitive side to the sport, which transcends the leisure activity side. All sports had to do it, and now it's disc golf to follow suit.
Still didn't tell you not to play. Just said, if you are so adamant about smoking while playing, go start your own professional disc golf league. I am calling your bluff. Never said, don't play. Just said, if you're unhappy, then quit.
Your last comments are Ad hominem dullness. I tell you what Dale, do something more than just lurk in the shadows of other people's work. Go make disc golf a better sport. Get involved.
525
General Banter / Re: There was USDGC bad, and now there's this
« on: November 07, 2011, 08:00:25 PM »
Never said to quit. Never said it at all. In fact, since this debate started (in another thread many moons ago) I have stated emphatically that I don't care if you do. However, I have made it very clear that if the rules say you can't smoke, then you can't smoke. I have also stated, that if you want to see the sport grow (outside of the realm of just a leisure sport) then you have to change the image. Because, as I have said over and over again, it's all about the presentation. The smokers on the boards, have brought up the fringe issue of "rights" or "we are the sport" or the rest of the endless babble of nonsense. It's a non-issue. It's a smoker's gripe that exists everywhere. It's always the smokers who feel "hunted" and "overlooked" in this issue and it has nothing to do with that at all.
I know this is going to really blow your mind. The smoking ban, only extends to less than 15 events. (no sh1t) So if you want to throw around your statistics about smokers numbers on the incline or decline, or the amount of money the industry makes, etc. You are wasting your time. There is ONLY one issue with the smoking rule and that is... SMOKERS CAN'T SMOKE DURING PDGA EVENTS!. That's it...
For me, it goes beyond that, It's not an issue of right or wrong, rights or privilege, or leisure or competition golf, this issue is simple - I love to play disc golf. More than you (Dale, and A). If you loved disc golf more, this wouldn't be an issue at all.
Dale - My point is this: If you want to throw around your weight as a smoking disc golfer, do so. Otherwise, it does nothing for anyone to listen to moot, peripheral arguments. You didn't come up with any valid points to discuss other than the ones I addressed. You were the one who raised personal issues with your money, involvement, etc. None of which are issues worth discussing. The only issue you have is "to smoke, or not to smoke" and that is answered simply by saying, "smoke if you want, but not during PDGA events." That's it. Smoking looks bad, period. It hinders the growth of the "professional" side of the sport.
A - Ah, does your butt hurt? You don't feel welcome to the sport? Did someone step on your frail little toes? Have you wandered on to a course and felt rejected by all the mean non-smokers. Did they giggle at you when you lit a cigarette? Please. Wake up. You're a casual player and no one gives a sh1t (yet) if you smoke during a casual round. You can enjoy disc golf for eternity without ever having to play a competitive round. So I think it's easy to say, you stick to your vision of disc golf and I will stick to mine. No one is asking you to leave, they are asking you not to smoke at PDGA EVENTS! Again, where does this defensive side come from? Do you give this much heat to bars you can't smoke in? Do you whine on airplanes? Do you try to use allegory to get your rights to smoke at JCCC? Come on.
I'm not a saint and I'm not the king of disc golf. We all know that's Timko's title. I'm barely tolerable in person for most people. And it could be because I'm very outspoken and I am going to remain so. I was silent for a long time about my attitudes about disc golf, but not anymore. I have a vested interest in this sport and I'm not going to sit idly by and watch it be ripped apart by infighting foolishness. I don't know Dale or "A" and I even offered to light your cigarette, so I hardly see how that is me trying to "exclude" you from the sport. I don't give two sh1ts about either of you, UNTIL you get in my way. And if you want to smoke at a PDGA event, well that's getting in my way.
If you have a beef with the rules; if you feel like your "rights" are being violated; if you feel like the PDGA needs to know just what sort of mistake they are making by asking disc golfers to NOT smoke at their sponsored events, then write the PDGA. In fact, take it a step further and write to the professional sports organizations that govern other sports too. Give them the low-down on smoking rights violations and how much money they could make if they allowed their athletes to smoke during their events. Let them know about well the tobacco industry's massive wealth. In fact, call the marketing companies and say, "HEY, look over there. Tobacco millions just sitting there with no sport to sponsor." I'm sure all the sports will come running to get a huge MARLBORO sign to post up under their banners.
I'm not real sure about this, but I can't even think of one sport that has a tobacco sponsor. I could be wrong, but after the WINSTON cup lost that as a name (why did they lose that sponsorship again? was it a cash strapped company or a bad public image???) I can't think of any sports with a smoking sign anywhere. I don't know. Sounds odd.
You're either trying to help the sport grow, or you're trying to destroy it. Sadly, you won't know the extent of which you are doing until after it's too late.
King Loomis, master of all I see.
I know this is going to really blow your mind. The smoking ban, only extends to less than 15 events. (no sh1t) So if you want to throw around your statistics about smokers numbers on the incline or decline, or the amount of money the industry makes, etc. You are wasting your time. There is ONLY one issue with the smoking rule and that is... SMOKERS CAN'T SMOKE DURING PDGA EVENTS!. That's it...
For me, it goes beyond that, It's not an issue of right or wrong, rights or privilege, or leisure or competition golf, this issue is simple - I love to play disc golf. More than you (Dale, and A). If you loved disc golf more, this wouldn't be an issue at all.
Dale - My point is this: If you want to throw around your weight as a smoking disc golfer, do so. Otherwise, it does nothing for anyone to listen to moot, peripheral arguments. You didn't come up with any valid points to discuss other than the ones I addressed. You were the one who raised personal issues with your money, involvement, etc. None of which are issues worth discussing. The only issue you have is "to smoke, or not to smoke" and that is answered simply by saying, "smoke if you want, but not during PDGA events." That's it. Smoking looks bad, period. It hinders the growth of the "professional" side of the sport.
A - Ah, does your butt hurt? You don't feel welcome to the sport? Did someone step on your frail little toes? Have you wandered on to a course and felt rejected by all the mean non-smokers. Did they giggle at you when you lit a cigarette? Please. Wake up. You're a casual player and no one gives a sh1t (yet) if you smoke during a casual round. You can enjoy disc golf for eternity without ever having to play a competitive round. So I think it's easy to say, you stick to your vision of disc golf and I will stick to mine. No one is asking you to leave, they are asking you not to smoke at PDGA EVENTS! Again, where does this defensive side come from? Do you give this much heat to bars you can't smoke in? Do you whine on airplanes? Do you try to use allegory to get your rights to smoke at JCCC? Come on.
I'm not a saint and I'm not the king of disc golf. We all know that's Timko's title. I'm barely tolerable in person for most people. And it could be because I'm very outspoken and I am going to remain so. I was silent for a long time about my attitudes about disc golf, but not anymore. I have a vested interest in this sport and I'm not going to sit idly by and watch it be ripped apart by infighting foolishness. I don't know Dale or "A" and I even offered to light your cigarette, so I hardly see how that is me trying to "exclude" you from the sport. I don't give two sh1ts about either of you, UNTIL you get in my way. And if you want to smoke at a PDGA event, well that's getting in my way.
If you have a beef with the rules; if you feel like your "rights" are being violated; if you feel like the PDGA needs to know just what sort of mistake they are making by asking disc golfers to NOT smoke at their sponsored events, then write the PDGA. In fact, take it a step further and write to the professional sports organizations that govern other sports too. Give them the low-down on smoking rights violations and how much money they could make if they allowed their athletes to smoke during their events. Let them know about well the tobacco industry's massive wealth. In fact, call the marketing companies and say, "HEY, look over there. Tobacco millions just sitting there with no sport to sponsor." I'm sure all the sports will come running to get a huge MARLBORO sign to post up under their banners.
I'm not real sure about this, but I can't even think of one sport that has a tobacco sponsor. I could be wrong, but after the WINSTON cup lost that as a name (why did they lose that sponsorship again? was it a cash strapped company or a bad public image???) I can't think of any sports with a smoking sign anywhere. I don't know. Sounds odd.
You're either trying to help the sport grow, or you're trying to destroy it. Sadly, you won't know the extent of which you are doing until after it's too late.
King Loomis, master of all I see.