Author Topic: 2014 Team Challenge  (Read 6617 times)

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white mccoy

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #105 on: May 13, 2014, 08:03:23 AM »
After last night's wet qualifier round:  Here are the 13 Qualified spots for the West Side:
1) Dick Parker
2) Joe Hesting
3) Arturo Villareal
4) Beckett Carduff
5) Nick Alteiri
6) Jon Thomas
7) Steve Thimmisch
8. Peter Bures
9) Kevin Zane
10) Mark Albers
11) Frank Weaver
12) Lee Killian
13) Bryan Guthrie


I have 3 other picks that will be playing, and will post them when I find out they can play all 3 rounds for sure.

I need everybody on this list to get a hold of me this week please.  I need to know whether you need a shirt, and what size....also need to know if you plan to play all 3 rounds or just Saturday or Sunday.  Or if you plan to play at all.  It will be a whole lot easier if all qualified players just play all 3 rounds.  I need  to know this info ASAP so I know how many alternates we need.

Schedule again is:
Saturday, June 7th @ Blue Valley, MO(Alt. Shot Doubles) at approx.  3:00pm??? Not sure of exact time yet.
Sunday, June 8th @ Lakeside Olathe, KS (Best shot Doubles) at approx. 9:00am???
Sunday, June 8th @ Lakeside Olathe, KS (Singles)  following lunch.

Please PM me your
1) phone # and your friend's phone #'s if they do not read this board. 
2) shirt size (unless you already have one from last year)
3) Which rounds you plan to play.

Thanks
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 08:06:51 AM by white mccoy »
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Tracy

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #106 on: May 13, 2014, 08:52:04 AM »
For your information, on the table, and has been in discussion between the team captains and myself, is an issue of state allegiance.  This is an issue that has come up before, particularly the first year, when I wasn't prepared to think about it, in the rush to get the event underway that Fall.  I don't believe it was mentioned last year, but probably would have affected the same folks asking about it the previous year.  To be honest, I don't think the people in question would have made either sides team, however could obviously been captains picked.  The difference this year is a player, that had been on a team previously, has moved out of his state of allegiance.  That player is Shanan Carson.

Anyway, the issue is players living on one side of the state line, but their true allegiance is to the other state.  This issue will continue to crop if not addressed at this time when it affects a team level player.

I am posting this so there is no mistaking what is being proposed.

A player living on one side of the state line, but wanting to play for the other side has to meet at least one of the following criteria to claim state allegiance:

A) Raised in and graduated high school in said state, 
or
B) Graduated from College in said state,
or
C) Have had residency in said state continuously, in the past, for 15+ years

That's it, no other reasons will be accepted to establish true allegiance.  Players still need to meet the currently living within the area requirement to even be considered under this amendment. 

Once a player establishes allegiance to a state and has played on that sides team, they can never play for the other side.

Finally, players that need to use the allegiance amendment to get on the team of their state allegiance must be selected with a captains pick or alternate spot.  No qualifying spots can be obtained by a player using the allegiance amendment.

« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 03:57:21 PM by Tracy »

eeastwood

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #107 on: May 13, 2014, 12:59:22 PM »
For your information, on the table, and has been in discussion between the team captains and myself, is an issue of state allegiance.  This is an issue that has come up before, particularly the first year, when I wasn't prepared to think about it, in the rush to get the event underway that Fall.  I don't believe it was mentioned last year, but probably would have affected the same folks asking about it the previous year.  To be honest, I don't think the people in question would have made either sides team, however could obviously been captains picked.  The difference this year is a player, that had been on a team previously, has moved out of his state of allegiance.  That player is Shanan Carson.

Anyway, the issue is players living on one side of the state line, but their true allegiance is to the other state.  This issue will continue to crop if not addressed at this time when it affects a team level player.

I am posting this so there is no mistaking what is being proposed.

A player living on one side of the state line, but wanting to play for the other side has to meet at least one of the following criteria to claim state allegiance:

A) Raised in and graduated high school in said state, 
or
B) Graduated from College in said state,
or
C) Have had residency in said state continuously, to the present, for 15+ years

That's it, no other reasons will be accepted to establish true allegiance.  Players still need to meet the currently living within the area requirement to even be considered under this amendment. 

Once a player establishes allegiance to a state and has played on that sides team, they can never play for the other side.

Finally, players that need to use the allegiance amendment to get on the team of their state allegiance must be selected with a captains pick or alternate spot.  No qualifying spots can be obtained by a player using the allegiance amendment.

Both A and B apply to me (graduated high school and college in KS).  I have no idea what C means, if you live in a state continously to the present, don't you still live in that state. 

You should only play for the state you live in.  Period.  There shouldn't be any other discussion.  Nobody forces anyone to live anywhere.  Shanan chose to live in Missouri, thus he should only play for the east side.  Otherwise he should grab some pom poms and cheer on the West Side team.  You know it doesn't say Kansas or Missouri team.  It says East and West side. 

If it's proposal that fine.  I say no way.  Don't create loop holes for special circumstance for specific players, it creates unnecessary confusion.  Keep it simple. 

dickthediscparker

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #108 on: May 13, 2014, 03:52:22 PM »
Eastwood, I get what your saying. The problem is is that there are people who won't play if they have to play for the East side. Regardless of what you may think of that persons opinion, it is what it is. This allows people to continue to play in the event on the side they would like to play for.
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Tracy

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #109 on: May 13, 2014, 03:55:37 PM »
I am just trying to arbitrate a proposal.

The allegiance amendment is not meant to create a loophole for one specific case. I don't even know for sure that Shanan meets any of the criteria I laid out.  As I mentioned, there have been others come forward and say.  "I live on X side of the state line but would rather die than play for side X. I grew up in state Y and my allegiance is there."  This rule change would help include those individuals.

The event will morph and mature.  In the beginning, I could have easily set the radius of residence to something much smaller, simpler, which would have excluded active players in our community. But I chose to set it out to 50 miles to include those active individuals. This event isn't about excluding quality players, it is about trying to include the best we have in the area for a competitive and camaraderie building event.

Eric, under the allegiance amendment, you could play for KS, if you wanted to. But if you chose to, you would thereafter have to play for KS.  C is worded incorrectly, I will correct it.

Anyway, yes, this would add an order of complexity. Perhaps there doesn't need to be any "official rule" at all.  Perhaps, the Captains of both sides can see the value in letting the best players compete in this event if even across border from where they reside.  Between them they can decide if an individual would be allowed to play via allegiance.  This could be done on a case by case basis as they arise.  It's up to the captains, either way, at this point.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 04:27:25 PM by Tracy »

jack

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #110 on: May 13, 2014, 04:49:39 PM »
so what about the Tank rule.....he lives in MO now.....meets NONE of the A B or C, since he moved prior to this motion, would he be eligible to be the "only" player to play on both, or is he now considered a West Sider for the life of his disc golf career?

I am asking as a point of clarification really, could care less which side people are on, but I like the notion of once you play for them.......you are them.......not having Tank or Shannan on the east side isn't ideal, but I personally think that it strengthens the resolve of the team concept.

Personal opine there.  Plus I think that we East Siders don't need them to win. ;D :o :P
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Tracy

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #111 on: May 13, 2014, 04:53:59 PM »
You know it doesn't say Kansas or Missouri team.  It says East and West side. 

<West Sider, not arbitrator speaking here>

It says East and West side, but we all know it's Kansas vs Missouri.

Maybe we try North vs South next year with say 50th as the dividing line?   The only way to divide it fairly would be to analyze a map with each person of our current membership plotted on it. Then draw the line such that 50% live north of that line and 50% live south of it.  Now that's some complicated stuff.  :P

The current split being on the state line is actually an arbitrary placement for an E vs W competition.  This thing is KS vs MO.  As such, why not let those that can prove allegiance to their state to play for the side their heart is with?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 05:42:43 PM by Tracy »

Tracy

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #112 on: May 13, 2014, 05:06:45 PM »
so what about the Tank rule.....he lives in MO now.....meets NONE of the A B or C, since he moved prior to this motion, would he be eligible to be the "only" player to play on both, or is he now considered a West Sider for the life of his disc golf career?

There is no Tank rule on the table.  He is now an East sider.  None of the allegiances apply to him either.   Should there be a "once team X always team X" rule?   :-\   I don't know. It doesn't seem as valid as a home state allegiance rule.
 

white mccoy

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #113 on: May 14, 2014, 07:50:12 AM »




Both A and B apply to me (graduated high school and college in KS).   

You should only play for the state you live in.  Period. 

I'm going to make you wish you would have pledge your allegiance to Kansas when you see that Trophy held up by a bunch of Blue Jerseys AGAIN!!!  :o

....Not been enough $hiit talking yet this year.  Let it begin!!!
Joe Hesting
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thankyoupeter

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #114 on: May 14, 2014, 09:11:38 AM »
Jose-

PM sent on my availability. 

otter

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #115 on: May 14, 2014, 04:11:48 PM »
....Not been enough $hiit talking yet this year.  Let it begin!!!

So...  ;D ....who are the traitors...that are playing?
Enshrine hallucinations...PULL!!

Ken Franks

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #116 on: May 14, 2014, 06:43:00 PM »
I'll be in Finland that weekend playing the Karkkila Open C tier....

 Not really, I just love to say Karkkila outloud...

 Just an observation, does anyone realize, that the only people that care about this event are the 30 people playing it??

 To be honest, I can't get a response back from the east side leader about getting a shirt, so not sure I'll be playing at all...
Talent beats hard work, but Hard work beats Talent that doesn't work hard...

Tracy

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #117 on: May 14, 2014, 07:58:25 PM »
To be honest, I can't get a response back from the east side leader about getting a shirt, so not sure I'll be playing at all...

Tank, just let me know what size, I'll make sure to get a shirt on order for you.  I'm still waiting on the list of shirt requirements myself.  yeah, yeah, I'm going to take care of it even though I said I wasn't. I was kind of hoping for a shirt change, but neither captain was up for driving that. Jose and Dick are too busy and it's just better to go through one source to get this done.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 08:01:21 PM by Tracy »

Tracy

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #118 on: May 14, 2014, 08:12:41 PM »
It's a combination of Big Blue and Little Blue.

Existing holes and/or safari style? Please post the layout you plan to use.

bensdadfred

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Re: 2014 Team Challenge
« Reply #119 on: May 14, 2014, 09:07:41 PM »
I'm with EE on this one.  You play for the side you live in. Don't like it? You have 2 options, 1) MOVE - 2) Don't play  If there are BS excuses created to circumvent this, well... count me out. Otherwise I would be proud to play for the side I live in.
2 Things: Don't sweat the small stuff & everything is small stuff!