Author Topic: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League suggestion thread  (Read 1828 times)

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white mccoy

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2014, 04:01:31 PM »
I don't mind having a traveling league in the evening.  I actually really lilke the idea.  I'm concerned about attendance though.  I think it would have to be on a set night - like every Monday or every Wednesday (actually those are the only two I'm available.)

If I ran it, I would post the 10 week schedule ahead of time.  All 10 weeks.


This sounds great Rob.  I don't think you would have any problem with attendance.  Especially when putting out an early schedule.

You of course can do it how ever you want, the issue would be getting approval to exchange funds at a course that isn't KCFDC approved.  I know for example a few places have already indicated that without insurance they don't want any type of "organized" event at their park.

So by having the KCFDC courses, you have the insurance piece covered, and that alleviates many of the NIMBY types.

I know this is a KCFDC forum, and I don't mean to step on toes...but I am pretty sure that I can meet a group of guys at a course anywhere, anytime, and play golf, exchange funds, etc.  I don't need insurance or permission for that.  So why couldn't a week here or there be on a course outside the KCFDC realm?  Who has to know it was a league? And not just some random dudes throwing discs for few $

Joe Hesting
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jack

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2014, 04:13:04 PM »
Integrity Joe, plain and simple.  Can it be done, absolutely, but asking for it to happen as a KCFDC league which has it's own merits means that it should be above the board.

It's not a matter of stepping on toes, but if all of a sudden a course ends up with 10-15 cars, and 30-40 people showing up, someone somewhere is going to ask, and an honest answer is best, so why hide it?  Or try to remember what to say?

The fact is that for me personally I have a hard enough time trying to remember the truth, you start filling my head with lies to remember and it is going to get ugly in there.

So the instance of holding an "approved" league that garners the support of the club, and covers the incidents that could happen within the confines of the game only makes sense.

Now as a side note to that a quick call to the P&R to ask permission may find that out as well, in which case a KCFDC BoD member (Ideally State VP) should reach out to inquire as to what they may like to see to gain or garner support.  most will have  list of requirements, and they could be simple, or not so much.....going with 10 weeks in a league Rob, you should be late enough on time to cover that in June after rain outs, etc that will happen to ensure daylight shouldn't be an issue.

It's not that you "can't" it is that you want to do it correctly so that no one is surprised, angry or hurt that proper channels weren't adhered to.
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white mccoy

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2014, 04:29:44 PM »
Fair enough.

Joe Hesting
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robm

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2014, 04:39:46 PM »
Currently, this is the way I see it.

My first choice is to have one of the permanent leagues run a 10-week PDGA league. 

Either Cliff or Olathe on Monday
or
Rosie or Young on Wednesday
or
move WyCo to Monday or Wednesday.

I am volunteering to run the PDGA side of any of these options.  I could possibly consider running WyCo for the rest of the year on Monday or Wednesday - but I'm not 100% there yet.

If one of these options do not work, my next choice will be to run a Wednesday travelling league. 

Tentatively, my idea would be to start Wednesday, April 2 - running 9 weeks straight through May 28 with the 10th 'week' actually being a Saturday afternoon round at Perry on the 5/24.  This is just my idea so far because I'm bored at work and excited about sanctioned leagues.

Again - my first choice would be not to start something new, but to work with what we already have.

I'm starting to think this is a good time to still gather ideas and then attend the BOD meeting March 12 (?) with proposals.
KCFDC: 1507
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Peter Bures

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2014, 05:05:54 PM »
I was open to running the league at SMP starting in May, but I like the idea of a rotating league even more.

stevet

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2014, 05:09:25 PM »
I think most people want to play PDGA leagues for the ratings.  I am not a huge ratings snob but it seems as though there might be a problem doing different courses on one PDGA league? 

Take round 10 for the Northeast league:

http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/15053

This round was played at Big Blue.  CD and I both shot a 68 and got a 885 rating.  A 68 during the Wide Open was 980 (same layout, similar conditions, etc). 

Basically what is happening is that the scores are processed for the entire league.  If you look a 68 is always a 885 regardless if you played at cliff or BV.

Maybe PDGA just needs to fix their crap?  If you wanted to inflate your rating you could just go to league nights when its an easier course, easier layout, and favorable conditions.

robm

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2014, 05:47:15 PM »
@ Peter - If you want to run a PDGA at SMP - please do.  I was getting the interpretation that you were not really wanting to.

@ Steve.  That is very interesting.  And explains a lot, like how I got a 689 rated round when I previous worst rated round was about 780.  It might possibly have to do with how Jack entered the numbers - if he adjusted the Par or not, etc.  I've had a couple of emails with Chuck Kennedy about ratings and this would be a good one to ask.

As far as ratings go - I'm rated 842.  Which is my highest ever after starting at 824 2 -years ago.  I don't need ratings, I just find them interesting.  Same thing with points.  For me, once I get past 200, it doesn't matter because I'm guaranteed an invite to Am Worlds as it is currently set up.

KCFDC: 1507
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jack

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2014, 06:36:30 PM »
Ratings aren't based on a course, they are based on the players that played league that night with established ratings history.

If you play a round of golf with 10 people that are rated at 1000, and your 60-950, and you play a round with 10 people at 900, you can bet your 60-will probably equal a 925 now instead.

Par is subjective, but has nothing to do with the ratings.  There can be manual manipulations with weather related incidents, that typically will only occur when you have tee times that changed over the day (yet another reason Tee times are harmful for ratings.....or tough to be accurate with).


The issue that night was that you had 968 rated players shooting 68, and then 925 shooting 59, so the curve was that the course played easier to the system on the lower rated players, and thererfore the high rated players should have shot better.  It again shows a "flaw" in ratings that I can go into but ultimately unless your higher rated players shoot better than you the course will play at a "lower rating" over all.  You can look at scores from different pools of the Wide Open to also see that the variance based on course and pool is also different.

Ratings are far from perfect, it is what we use currently though and there will be issues based along those lines.  Suffice it to say, par (the TD's determination of PAR) has absolutely nothing to do with ratings, it has to do with the players that are rated playing that course in that same field on that same day.  Every day a course can be rated different based on the participation, even though the course doesn't change.  What you hope to have happen is that you get enough people playing the same exact course over and over in the exact hole configurations (tough in KC as many placements on MANY holes make the course different weekly almost) so that you get a statistical numeration to have an understanding of the course.

I have done that at Cliff Drive over the years to learn which holes are tweaners, but then that is my own diligence.  Not everyone enters the hole configurations to make determinations.

So the longer or longest answer (yeah I can be longer) is that it doesn't matter what course is played, as long as everyone playing that course played it that day under the similar conditions for rating purposes.

 ;D
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Jack Lowe-
Parks Development Director for KCFDC
Multiple PDGA Worlds TD
Course Designs
913.485.5123-C
"Disc Golf-
Like ball golf, only faster,
cheaper, and healthier!"

jack

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2014, 06:40:48 PM »
There is something wrong with the Ratings, I will send a note off, as well.  I looked in there and the 55 that I shot is rated at a 1001, and I think that night it was rated like a 980, I even listed in the comments, that no 1000 rated round, so the course won.

I will send a note off, they had issues with this "event" and may have affected it.

I think that this was a glitch and thanks for pointing that out for certain.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 06:49:12 PM by jack »
===o  {>[]----
Jack Lowe-
Parks Development Director for KCFDC
Multiple PDGA Worlds TD
Course Designs
913.485.5123-C
"Disc Golf-
Like ball golf, only faster,
cheaper, and healthier!"

kevinmzane

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2014, 09:38:04 PM »
I have a really hard time making any commitment to regular league attendance, but for what it's worth I really like the idea of a PDGA league on the KS side.

Peter Bures

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2014, 02:31:04 AM »
What about an abbreviated rotating KS league? So instead of playing 10 different courses, just pick 3 and rotate between them?

SMP, Lakeside, Wyco or something like that.

robm

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2014, 07:59:47 AM »
What about an abbreviated rotating KS league? So instead of playing 10 different courses, just pick 3 and rotate between them?

SMP, Lakeside, Wyco or something like that.
That's an idea.  I'm intending to go to next week's BOD meeting to discuss.
KCFDC: 1507
PDGA: 51540
Tournament map: http://goo.gl/maps/AAYAj

jteater

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2014, 08:40:03 AM »
What about an abbreviated rotating KS league? So instead of playing 10 different courses, just pick 3 and rotate between them?

SMP, Lakeside, Wyco or something like that.
That's an idea.  I'm intending to go to next week's BOD meeting to discuss.

Just speaking for myself, those 3 courses on Wednesday would be my favorite choice.

DDKC

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2014, 05:01:10 PM »
I really like the idea and would help.  I would rather it not be no Wednesdays as I would like play but since I run the Rosedale League, i would not be able too.  I realize I am just one person but that is my opinion and push for it to be on a different, perhaps Monday.  Either way, I would support it.
Scott Reek
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robm

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Re: 2014 KCFDC PDGA League
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2014, 09:59:25 AM »
See new thread regarding a poll.

http://kcfdc.org/forum/index.php?topic=10221.0
KCFDC: 1507
PDGA: 51540
Tournament map: http://goo.gl/maps/AAYAj