Author Topic: 2014 Midwest Amateur Championships - PDGA B Tier - Kansas City - August 2/3  (Read 8321 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

mjohn1981

  • Am Poster
  • *
  • Posts: 27
    • View Profile
I agree with some of the comments here. Where as I don't personally have the tournament experience, I can get as much experience playing the same course over and over but not gain 'that' much knowledge of 'how to play'. Just in preparation for the MAC, I've started playing Rosedale and Water Works on an alternating schedule every week. Yet, I'm quickly learning it doesn't really matter with the regular course set ups, a tournament NEEDS to change the regular layouts. The whole point of playing disc golf, is to have fun, get better, and compete against your own play, as well as others.
I, for one, am excited to play new courses and set ups. I believe that's where the true reward is in playing tournaments.
Just my thoughts...
PDGA # 64386
KCFDC # 1700
KCFDC 2014 Bag Tag # 281
DD KC Bag Tag # 196

white mccoy

  • Pro Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 341
    • View Profile
Joe - this is not a ball buster, just my thoughts...

I think the intention for the MAC is to give Ams the experience of playing in a larger tournament without paying a $100 entry fee.  Tee times for instance are never utilized for a C or B tier.  Sometimes A, but not B or C. 

With larger tournies, such as GBO, Shunga Nunga, etc., tightening up the fairways and extending them is part of the tournament experience.  Admittedly, I tend to shoot below my rating on longer holes, mandos, OB rope, etc.  However, I enjoy them more when they are utilized in a tournament.  If I want to play the normal course, I go to league or have a casual but serious round with my friends.  For tournaments, I personally want the difficulty kicked up a notch.

^^This

I agree with some of the comments here. Where as I don't personally have the tournament experience, I can get as much experience playing the same course over and over but not gain 'that' much knowledge of 'how to play'. Just in preparation for the MAC, I've started playing Rosedale and Water Works on an alternating schedule every week. Yet, I'm quickly learning it doesn't really matter with the regular course set ups, a tournament NEEDS to change the regular layouts. The whole point of playing disc golf, is to have fun, get better, and compete against your own play, as well as others.
I, for one, am excited to play new courses and set ups. I believe that's where the true reward is in playing tournaments.
Just my thoughts...

And This^^^


Who wants to play the same course you can play any day of the week all year long.  And the people travelling in from out of town are still playing on the same hills, grass, trees.  They just don't get to play the easier set-up we play all year long.

Challenge yourself!

I'm excited to watch my friends play well on these amped up courses ;)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 02:24:13 PM by white mccoy »
Joe Hesting
#24884

jack

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 7236
    • View Profile
It is a CHAMPIONSHIP that they want to entice to grow.  This is a method they feel will enable that.  Personally, I despise temp holes, so my judgement is out slightly already on that.  We do have a great track.  We don't alter and add for the Wide Open even with the Pro's when used as an NT event, so i am perplexed as well at the decision to add holes on what many consider their favorite KC course.

That being said, it is the sole discretion of the TD to create an environment that they feel will excite and entice the competitors.  We have used Rope at WW in the past, and several varying configurations over the years for final 9's as well as a standard 18 hole format with mandos and double mandos over the years.

The result hopefully will enable a fun and enjoyable experience at golf and a chance to say, remember when they did that at that one tourney......We say that now about #18, when the DOUBLE MANDO was there before we lost trees.

If we don't address the erosion and the mature degradation of the trees, we will continue to need to find solutions to make the course as premier as it stands today.  Those are more important issues than moving and adding holes IMO.

I for one though am all excited to play in an event that I don't run again, which all of you should be.  If you want to make it work a different way, please work with the BoD and ask to run events... ;D

I will be interested to see how it plays tonight, so reserving some judgement now for certain!
===o  {>[]----
Jack Lowe-
Parks Development Director for KCFDC
Multiple PDGA Worlds TD
Course Designs
913.485.5123-C
"Disc Golf-
Like ball golf, only faster,
cheaper, and healthier!"

robm

  • Pro Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 949
    • View Profile
I think tonight will be a good test.  It may go great, it may show tweaks need to be made.




Just don't come to league tweaking.  Because it is a real bother when a stranger follows you around and he's out of his freakin' mind.

KCFDC: 1507
PDGA: 51540
Tournament map: http://goo.gl/maps/AAYAj

jamidanger

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1446
  • 1= be safe 2= be courteous 3= all holes be par 3
    • View Profile
    • my goal is a pdga rating of 420
carpooling is highly recommended for this tournament
espouse elucidation

Disciple

  • Am Poster
  • *
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
All players for The MAC will have a tee time.  Carpooling would be with folks on or around the same time at the same course and also to the players party Saturday night at Rosedale
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 07:34:20 PM by Disciple »
Student of the Disc
JHARV 171

Steve the Quiz Berry

  • Am Poster
  • *
  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
I was wondering how cards are drawn for this event..?
Are lower rated.., and unrated players carded together..and players with higher rating carded together? Or is it random?

spnachio

  • Guest
I have a question for anyone who has ran a tournament or set one up. Why do holes have to be added and the course changed around. Waterworks is a well know course and a place people want to visit to play. Then they get here and it is a whole different layout.  I understand for pros and open players, but this is for an amateur championship.

I'm with you Joe.  I get tired of hearing "tournament experience" and "challenge yourself". Not calling anyone out but I've heard these things in disc golf for a while now. Sure everyone want to play their best in a tourney but a majority of ams will not compete at pro level.  I do sometimes wish tournaments would leave it easy and let's see who can beat it down the hardest. How bout input from ams not pros on what people like. Just sayin. I guess we will see how everyone shoots.  Most disc golfer are gracious and appreciate the work it takes to put on an event so i prolly sound like a dbag for the post. I think Scott runs good tourneys and DD usually lays good playa packs so even if you do get punked by a course you can have something to take home to help forget about a bad score.  Maybe I'll run the "Paris of the plains" rec open next year :P

Anthony Puryear

  • Pro Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 468
    • View Profile
I played the ww course tonight and I am an am player. I definitely didn't play as we'll as I should have but I enjoyed the lay out. Even though I'm not a pro I like to be challenged. Waterworks is a course I get to play maybe once a month because I live down south so it's a drive. I think having it set up in a different way evens the playing field for everyone. As an am I don't want to get beat because someone who just plays waterworks or Rosie has mastered it's layout. If I'm going to be beat I want it to be because they were the better player not just because they had home field advantage. So I think that is what is fun about the layout. Yes they would still have 15 holes that they will know better than most but at least it gives me a few holes for us to be on more level playing field. That's my thought anyway.

Thanks Scott for organizing things. I actually have 3 friends from Oklahoma who I got into the sport who will be driving up to play their first ever tournament. Can't wait for them to experience a DD tournament and some amazingKC disc golf. Regardless of whether you like the layout or not, KC is so lucky to have courses where this sort of thing is an option. Might as well take advantage.
PDGA 39363

robm

  • Pro Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 949
    • View Profile
I have a question for anyone who has ran a tournament or set one up. Why do holes have to be added and the course changed around. Waterworks is a well know course and a place people want to visit to play. Then they get here and it is a whole different layout.  I understand for pros and open players, but this is for an amateur championship.

I'm with you Joe.  I get tired of hearing "tournament experience" and "challenge yourself". Not calling anyone out but I've heard these things in disc golf for a while now. Sure everyone want to play their best in a tourney but a majority of ams will not compete at pro level.  I do sometimes wish tournaments would leave it easy and let's see who can beat it down the hardest. How bout input from ams not pros on what people like. Just sayin. I guess we will see how everyone shoots.  Most disc golfer are gracious and appreciate the work it takes to put on an event so i prolly sound like a dbag for the post. I think Scott runs good tourneys and DD usually lays good playa packs so even if you do get punked by a course you can have something to take home to help forget about a bad score.  Maybe I'll run the "Paris of the plains" rec open next year :P

Well at first I wasn't busting Joe's nuts.  JeffO - now I'm busting your nuts. 

Quote
How bout input from ams not pros on what people like. Just sayin.

Am Player Comment #1:
Rob Martin, PDGA # 51540, Rated 843.  Played 20 PDGA Sanctioned tournament so far.  2 of which were Majors, 2 A-Tiers.
I think the intention for the MAC is to give Ams the experience of playing in a larger tournament without paying a $100 entry fee.  Tee times for instance are never utilized for a C or B tier.  Sometimes A, but not B or C. 

With larger tournies, such as GBO, Shunga Nunga, etc., tightening up the fairways and extending them is part of the tournament experience.  Admittedly, I tend to shoot below my rating on longer holes, mandos, OB rope, etc.  However, I enjoy them more when they are utilized in a tournament.  If I want to play the normal course, I go to league or have a casual but serious round with my friends.  For tournaments, I personally want the difficulty kicked up a notch.

Am Player Comment #2:
Marc Johnson, PDGA # 64386, Currently rated 622
I agree with some of the comments here. Where as I don't personally have the tournament experience, I can get as much experience playing the same course over and over but not gain 'that' much knowledge of 'how to play'. Just in preparation for the MAC, I've started playing Rosedale and Water Works on an alternating schedule every week. Yet, I'm quickly learning it doesn't really matter with the regular course set ups, a tournament NEEDS to change the regular layouts. The whole point of playing disc golf, is to have fun, get better, and compete against your own play, as well as others.
I, for one, am excited to play new courses and set ups. I believe that's where the true reward is in playing tournaments.
Just my thoughts...
(Marc, this is not a slight on you).

JeffO - How much more Amateur do you want?  A 843 rated player and a 622 rated player saying they want tougher layouts for tournaments.

Not all tournaments are tough layouts.  Rosedale Open this year was pretty tame.  Muddy Mo last year was pretty tame.  Both those 2 tournaments included Rosedale (tame) and Water Works (tame).

This tournament, that includes Rosedale and Water Works is not tame.  If every tournament was tame, 1. How are you going to get better, and 2. (more importantly) how freakin' boring is that?

Come on guys, pony up to the challenge.  If this isn't your thing, there are other tournaments to play.  This one is about kicking up the tournament experience a few notches.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 10:08:13 AM by robm »
KCFDC: 1507
PDGA: 51540
Tournament map: http://goo.gl/maps/AAYAj

jteater

  • Am Poster
  • *
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
Joe - this is not a ball buster, just my thoughts...

I think the intention for the MAC is to give Ams the experience of playing in a larger tournament without paying a $100 entry fee.  Tee times for instance are never utilized for a C or B tier.  Sometimes A, but not B or C. 

With larger tournies, such as GBO, Shunga Nunga, etc., tightening up the fairways and extending them is part of the tournament experience.  Admittedly, I tend to shoot below my rating on longer holes, mandos, OB rope, etc.  However, I enjoy them more when they are utilized in a tournament.  If I want to play the normal course, I go to league or have a casual but serious round with my friends.  For tournaments, I personally want the difficulty kicked up a notch.

Rob, I did not think you were busting my nuts, and your comments were quite good. I asked the question hoping to get answers and I certainly did. This may be the first time on this forum somebody has changed my mind. I was trying to get an idea if most people at tournaments like it more of a challenge or it they would rather have it left alone. I also understand that it is up to the people running the tournament what they wish to do and that they probably try to make it as fun as possible for the majority.

So in agreement, we have so many courses, everyday anyone can play casual with friends, casual/serious with friend. We have leagues everynight and you can choose large leagues or smaller more homey leagues. And we have challenges, tournaments, and or doubles almost every weekend. So life is very very good.  So yes, in the future I will do a better job of finding out exactly how a tournament will be before I sign up. Like at the Wide Open I knew that Swope and Wyco would be set up long and it was excellent.

So in disagreement with some comments on here.

Joe H, who wants to play the same courses over and over.  Me, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I wanted different ones last weekend so I played a tournament in Nebraska.

Anthony P, I think having it set in different ways helps even the playing field. On my trip to Nebraska nobody was concerned about making it fair for me. I went there because I wanted to play them at their place.

Rob M, you shouldn't bust Jeff O's nuts. You know he is up for a challenge at any time. And the comments from everyone about harder layouts will make you better: everything we do in disc golf makes us better. Lets see, if I throw in a field I will get better, if I throw tight courses like RosieDU I will get better, if I play with better players and learn from them I will get better, if I putt in my garage I will get better. Adding two holes to Waterworks and making some longer, not so sure that helps.

With all that said, I can't wait for the tournament.








   

jack

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 7236
    • View Profile
I am an AM my comments don't count?

Ok....So the course last night was pretty ok (I HATE MANDOS THOUGH and TEMP HOLES).  so I am going by the tee pad start for the holes on this, not the actual numbering from last night.

#A and #B, something has to give.  I get what is trying to be done, but the notion of playing the first hole as a prime and encouragement to go for aces, then move #1 short, and play from the parking lot to #1 long (adding in a hole to compensate for #4 to #5).  Tee from the parking area circle down the hill there, I think you get the same feeling, and you accomplish the same, EXCEPT you lose that hole #1 long that we all love.  I think that this may be the answer over adding another by #16.
2-great hole
3-UNsure why the Mando is needed, but whatever, just make sure spotters are there as you are forcing people left more in an already lost disc prone left area....silly Mando really....but I get it, you want it tighter.  Instead of a Mando, why not OB it past the tree down the honeysuckle line?  I went past the mando and anny'd out and came back essentially in the same place as if I were throwing the hyzer route.  Tightening it up on the line may be a better answer to make it tougher if that was the goal.....if it was a safety thing, it needs to be further down to impact the Mando....
4 (to middle pin #5) though I played this HORRENDOUSLY, this was a very good hole.  I really enjoyed it but absolutely hated my shot off the tee that went past 5 pad but took forever to find.
6-fine....
7-were there Mando's on this?  If so why, if not, ok, I was tired at this point.  I like this placement on the course for certain.
8-good hole, and the Mando is really driven by safety on this placement.....
9-we need to raise the ceiling here, and we need to be concerned about the "lightning tree" in the middle of the fairway, that is as a whole, not this event, that will die soon enough and be a widow maker if we don't address it.
10-sure about time for a short hole....
11-why the Mando?
12-Again, why the mando?  If it is the park safety, move it closer so you can do other shots, you really limit and force the shots on this one.
13-fine
14-Fine Mando safety, but really doesn't help much if you throw that way you throw that way...
15-Ugh....really double MANDO that you can't see from the tee....just UGH, this placement is by far one of the worst on the course, and there is NO GREEN as well, you are playing the green on the tee pad for #14, you have to double MANDO the protection, and then you can't get to it by the way you force people to throw unless you hit the 20' gap.  Our card all got 3's, you will probably not see any scoring separation on this hole for the amount of work needed.  You would be better served here to figure out a Double MANDO and use a shorter pin placement....
16-Mando is silly, but OK....
16A-You could clear out the brush across the street and tee from the lower (shorter pin placement) and make a tighter and then more open shot for an additional hole in lieu of the first shot I mentioned from the parking lot.  It would take a few hours of work but I believe that we could clear that out very easily to move ahead appropriately, and leave 8 long.  This could also be looked at for a more permanent #4 to #5 solution as well.....
17-I really liked this hole even with the Mando, but the MANDO is only to keep from going over the road, why not give the Big ARMS an option to throw over #9 and #18 to the grass....if you don't make it, punish them with a Re-Tee from the pad only if not in bounds on the drive?  I think that may create a HUGE scoring discrepancy....but as it is it is a tough hole, our card had 3 4's, and a 6....I will let you guess who got the 6..... ;D ::)

18-fine...

Overall, LONG and tough, are sure that this is an appropriate set up for AMs?  I really think that there are some tough and challenging holes.  I think that the A & B are just hokey...it is always fun to throw downhill, but why not just put it at the short placement then is what I was thinking last night after we talked Scott.

Good thoughts and some wonderful ideas for the future on larger events for certain.

Kudos for the ideas.
===o  {>[]----
Jack Lowe-
Parks Development Director for KCFDC
Multiple PDGA Worlds TD
Course Designs
913.485.5123-C
"Disc Golf-
Like ball golf, only faster,
cheaper, and healthier!"

SteelerDoug

  • Am Poster
  • *
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
With all that said, I can't wait for the tournament.

BIRDIE ON THAT NOTE too from Steeler too.

"Thank You" to all involved in setting up the course, printing out the layouts and holding the event last night.  Luv'd playing hole "B", 4 to 5 "long",  7 to over "10", and especially 17 to 18 "on the hill." I'm gonna 4 that hole.

There isn't anything wrong playing "Safari" in a tourney. It's a challenge I luv.

Luv'd the course layout yesterday.  Keep it as it is please.  Luved the Mando's and OB.  The course is set up well enough in advance of the tourney so there isn't any reason why one can't practice before MAC, even if some of the baskets are not set.  One doesn't need a basket there to practice a drive up to the pin setting. 

I can't believe I went OB twice and MANDO twice.  That killed my score, a temporarily demoralizing 74.  But my putts were ON!!!  Right Jamie?  I'll fix the Mando's and OB this weekend.  Going back for a rematch.

Nice shooting Jamie and way to stay OB free Ted.  Sherwood, we have some "improvement" to do. ;)

SteelerDoug

  • Am Poster
  • *
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Uh ok.  Jack's piping in his "AM" comments.

"Uh, Jack.  I didn't hear you last night. Sound carries well @ WW." ;)

Is that an assumption you done well, despite all the Mando's and OB? I hope you did.

jamidanger

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1446
  • 1= be safe 2= be courteous 3= all holes be par 3
    • View Profile
    • my goal is a pdga rating of 420
safety mandos are awesome - but hole B will hurt somebody and hole 12 mando could be one or two trees closer to the tee. yeah I said butt hole. don't forget to carpool and pay attention to parking etiquette for the MAC.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 12:15:49 PM by jamidanger »
espouse elucidation