Author Topic: AM Worlds Query.....and possibly Pro.....  (Read 307 times)

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tallguy007kc

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AM Worlds Query.....and possibly Pro.....
« on: July 21, 2014, 09:32:28 AM »
Maybe it's because I knew I wasn't going this year, due to already committing to going to Japan, that I barely paid any attention to any of the Worlds sign-ups.  I just looked at the sign-ups/divisions on the site, and this has probably already been beatin' to death at some point, but, is it just me or is there a trend going on with who, or what divisions, they're allowing to sign-up for this tournament now?  I noticed a bazillion Advanced players signed up, and barely what I would consider a "Worlds Competition" list of players in most all of the other divisions. With exception to the Advanced division, it looked like an A or B Tier event.  I haven't looked back at the last 3 or 4 years of sign-ups, but, if I remember them correctly, every division is trending downward in "allowed participants" since Charlotte (with exceptions to the allowed women at that particular event).  Maybe it's the PDGA just looking to see who the latest and greatest up and coming Advanced player(s) to possibly go Pro will be, and all other divisions be damned, but....

Is it a possibility that maybe the sites presenting the event just don't have enough courses to handle it, or, some other factor that I'm missing?  It just seems to me that if you're going to have a Worlds competition, all divisions should have ample slots available, to even be considered "Worlds". 

Just curious, and I like starting new...umm...threads.  ;D 8)
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Tracy

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Re: AM Worlds Query.....and possibly Pro.....
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2014, 01:54:52 PM »
Not sure what you're looking at, Tallguy?  This years worlds events combined have over a 1000 players.  age protected lists look robust on both am and pro sides.

tallguy007kc

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Re: AM Worlds Query.....and possibly Pro.....
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2014, 02:19:26 PM »
I may be losing my mind, and it's usually verifiable, but, the last couple of Worlds I played in there were double the "age-protected's" that there are now.
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Dan Z.

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Re: AM Worlds Query.....and possibly Pro.....
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2014, 10:42:53 AM »
"The Advanced Men division (MA1) is far and away the largest field, as usual. Of the 620 or so competitors this year, 46 percent of them will be competing in the Advanced Menís division"...thats what he is talking about
DZ

jack

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Re: AM Worlds Query.....and possibly Pro.....
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2014, 12:55:16 PM »
Location   Advance men % of field in the past worlds since 2003
KC   56%
Des Moines   56%
Flagstaff   50%
Tulsa   51%
Milwaukee   55%
K-Zoo   54%
KC   52%
Marion OH   46%
Rochester NY   48%
Charlotte   47%
Emporia   45%
St. Paul   54%
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 12:57:35 PM by jack »
===o  {>[]----
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Re: AM Worlds Query.....and possibly Pro.....
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2014, 12:58:15 PM »
Percentage of Adv Masters in Field for worlds since 2003
KC   25%
Des Moines   24%
Flagstaff   22%
Tulsa   28%
Milwaukee   19%
K-Zoo   17%
KC   21%
Marion OH   21%
Rochester NY   19%
Charlotte   18%
Emporia   17%
St. Paul   14%
===o  {>[]----
Jack Lowe-
Parks Development Director for KCFDC
Multiple PDGA Worlds TD
Course Designs
913.485.5123-C
"Disc Golf-
Like ball golf, only faster,
cheaper, and healthier!"

jack

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Re: AM Worlds Query.....and possibly Pro.....
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2014, 12:58:59 PM »
% of Adv Grand Masters in the Field since 2003 in Am Worlds
KC   7%
Des Moines   8%
Flagstaff   13%
Tulsa   10%
Milwaukee   12%
K-Zoo   14%
KC   13%
Marion OH   18%
Rochester NY   17%
Charlotte   18%
Emporia   17%
St. Paul   14%
===o  {>[]----
Jack Lowe-
Parks Development Director for KCFDC
Multiple PDGA Worlds TD
Course Designs
913.485.5123-C
"Disc Golf-
Like ball golf, only faster,
cheaper, and healthier!"

jack

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Re: AM Worlds Query.....and possibly Pro.....
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2014, 12:59:36 PM »
% of Adv Women in the Worlds field since 2003
KC   8%
Des Moines   7%
Flagstaff   8%
Tulsa   5%
Milwaukee   7%
K-Zoo   7%
KC   7%
Marion OH   5%
Rochester NY   5%
Charlotte   7%
Emporia   6%
St. Paul   6%
===o  {>[]----
Jack Lowe-
Parks Development Director for KCFDC
Multiple PDGA Worlds TD
Course Designs
913.485.5123-C
"Disc Golf-
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cheaper, and healthier!"

jack

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Re: AM Worlds Query.....and possibly Pro.....
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2014, 01:01:04 PM »
up 9% this year on the field.  The biggest notice to me is the lack of any movement b the womens division at all....
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Jack Lowe-
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Re: AM Worlds Query.....and possibly Pro.....
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2014, 02:31:36 PM »
Pro Mens % of the Pro Worlds Field since 2003
Flaggstaff   45%
Des Moines   46%
Allentown   43%
Augusta   42%
HighBridge   46%
K-Zoo   46%
KC   40%
Crown Pt.   44%
Santa Cruz   41%
Charlotte   37%
Crown Pt.   44%
Portland OR   37%
TOTAL    42%


Masters % of Pro Field since 2003
Flaggstaff   26%
Des Moines   26%
Allentown   20%
Augusta   20%
HighBridge   20%
K-Zoo   25%
KC   22%
Crown Pt.   20%
Santa Cruz   24%
Charlotte   25%
Crown Pt.   16%
Portland OR   18%
TOTAL    22%


% of Pro Grand Masters since 2003
Flaggstaff   15%
Des Moines   11%
Allentown   19%
Augusta   18%
HighBridge   13%
K-Zoo   12%
KC   17%
Crown Pt.   19%
Santa Cruz   16%
Charlotte   17%
Crown Pt.   19%
Portland OR   18%
TOTAL    16%

% of Pro Women making up the Pro Worlds Field since 2003
Flaggstaff   7%
Des Moines   8%
Allentown   8%
Augusta   8%
HighBridge   9%
K-Zoo   7%
KC   6%
Crown Pt.   6%
Santa Cruz   8%
Charlotte   8%
Crown Pt.   8%
Portland OR   10%
TOTAL    8%
Interestingly this is the first year above 40 (at 40) and the first year they represent double digits on the spectrum.....

Then there is the Sylvia Voakes rule.....she seems to be a 1 person division when playing......odd....almost as odd as the Advanced Legends division.....what are you really waiting for at that point?
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 02:34:58 PM by jack »
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tallguy007kc

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Re: AM Worlds Query.....and possibly Pro.....
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2014, 03:40:06 PM »
I guess the biggest thing I noticed was in the Adv. Masters division.  They used to be an A & B pool.  It's a single pool now, which looks to coincide with your percentages.  Without spending the time that it appears that you did here (Jack), I'm just curious as to how the divisions got split for allowed competitors, as I know there were more than what's playing now that wanted to sign up, and yet still get to be a bigger crowd.  The percentages for Advanced tell me slots were made available elsewhere?
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jack

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Re: AM Worlds Query.....and possibly Pro.....
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2014, 04:31:27 PM »
I have a whole spreadsheet of this as well as the Pro's, and I have it broken down as well for a combined total and percentages of participants for the worlds.  Now I don't take out DNF's, I leave them in as well though...the interesting thing to me is that 2009 was the BIGGEST worlds until 2011 in Charlotte.  and this year provided that the pools stay at their current level will have the largest AM and Pro worlds since then.  KC actually had more AM's than Emporia last year in the 2009 worlds.  I do NOT count Jr's in the total in case you wonder how that happens.  Jr worlds, though important typically don't equate to more than one pool that needs to be monitored.  In some years it is separated away from the other worlds, recently it has been part of the Am's for the most part.  Not to diminish, but statistically you know its one pool.

Now as for the mapping of the worlds, you need to look at the trends.  A brief glance indicates that the MM1 pool large one year, the next year the MG1 tends to go up the next......except it has flattened and mirrored each other since Charlotte, so nowyou plan and map a pool for each division, where this year there are 145 in those divisions, last year there was 165, so Emporia chose to open more slots than Minnesota, but they have more attendees as they are looking at 530 in the AM field versus 476 last year in Emporia.  So there is 20 slots that didn't happen, and you can bet it was a decision to not have a different pool with multiple divisions. 

Each TD makes a call as to what makes the most sense to them and their staff.  Last year Lemon Lake had 47 Pro Masters, and 57 Grandmasters, in 2010, they had 62 Pro Masters and 57 Grand Masters, both were lower, Pros were as well.  So the mystic of a new location can also add to that.  If you enjoyed playing you may return, if you played it, you may go elsewhere this year to play a new adventure....

You work closely on determining pools at the onset, and your courses, your staff, and the ability to work it.  Des Moines did 3 sets of tee times in 2004, I did 2 in 2003, this all matters on staff and scheduling. 

It is a nightmare to look at over and over again, but ultimately you hope to balance what is fair, then what works, and what will be balanced in competition.

This year clearly the MM1 and MG1 got less than last year, and FAR LESS than Charlotte (216 there) so almost 25 % from Emporia, and 33% from this year.....but it does mirror almost all other locations that hosted a "AM WORLDS" only, as only those that ran the combined appear to be able to manipulate the system to more than what you are seeing now.....
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Tracy

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Re: AM Worlds Query.....and possibly Pro.....
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2014, 09:47:50 AM »
James,  keep in mind that during the invite only period, anyone invited may sign up. All those signing up during the invite period must be accommodated by the TD.  As such, those signups affect what a TD will offer as div/pool limits when public registration is eventually opened.