Author Topic: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test  (Read 2017 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Timko

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3714
    • View Profile
Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« on: February 23, 2008, 10:18:44 AM »
I mentioned running some sort of actual league (in leu of the mini's that we currently run).  As a test league, I would like to run this thing for 6 weeks, from the middle of march until the end of April. 

The league is a random draw handicapped doubles league.  This means that the partner you draw at the beginning is your partner for the entire 6 weeks.  Handicaps get added at the end of the 2nd week.

Each week, you compete against one team.  The top rated player on team 1 plays the top rated player on team 2.  The lower rated players on team 1 plays the same on team 2.  The winner of each "match" based on a handicapped adjusted score gets a point.  The lowest cumulative team score with a handicap adjustment gets a point.  So you can win a total of 3 points each week.

The league I'm basing this on has subs and a sunday makeup league, but that won't be implemented for this test.  If you miss a week, you're team will most likely lose 2 points (one for your match, and 1 for the culm point).  I need people to commit for the full 6 weeks to see how much people like this format.

For the test, we'll pay out all the money at the end of the week.  Ace fund will be extra, and optional.

The ideal will be to make this a moving league from course to course, but for now, I think we'll pick between 1 or 2 courses.  Since this league will most likely coincide with another weekday league, we'll obviously not consider that course in the rotation.

So I'd like to hear what people have to say about this format.  I'm more than happy to run something like this, provided I can get some golfers to commit.

Twister66

  • Pro Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 361
    • View Profile
Re: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2008, 06:16:05 PM »
Great idea Chris.

   What if as the league rotated through the courses they could make some accommodation for that league's players? If you played on three courses you would only have to consider it twice during the season.  I would not want to make it complicated.  The league plays doubles that week and contributes to the payout and ace funds? If you played league the first night at the course that has a coinciding mini you could pick up teams that may want to continue in the league. When the league came back around in week three teams that were not regulars wouldn't get the benefit of a handicap, but could still participate.

Who pays for the sub?
Jim Sherwood

Timko

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3714
    • View Profile
Re: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2008, 08:29:49 AM »
Subs pay for themselves.  I think we'll have to raise the price from what the original Bushwacker league in the IC/CR area does (they pay $2 a week) because I think it would be nice to actually have a decent payout. 

As for holding the league on other league nights:  I think your potential to cash if you don't play all 6 weeks is virtually impossible; we won't pay anything out until the end.  Hence the reason for finding people that will commit for the entire 6 weeks.

This league is actually a traveling league between 3 courses in Cedar Rapids and 3 in Iowa City.  I think Des Moines has a similar league now as well.  Down the road, I'd like to have it move from course to course, but for this trial run, I think 1 or 2 courses would be best.

Dan Weinert

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1722
  • PARADISE ROCS!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2008, 06:54:54 AM »
I like the concept very much...waiting to see if a couple of buds want to join in with me. So tags would be in play with the loosing team giving up their better numbers but only to the opponent that week?
For a good time: Lat- 3925'8.92"N, Long- 9433'18.52"W

Tom

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1959
    • View Profile
Re: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2008, 07:22:28 AM »
Sounds like fun. If it is random draw dubs, and you have the same partner all 6 weeks and two 970 to 1000 rated players draw each other, it could be a long six weeks.

Timko

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3714
    • View Profile
Re: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2008, 02:22:09 PM »
You only play against the people in your group for tags that week.  Tags will work just like they do in our leagues now; the person with the lowest score gets the lowest tag, and so on.  However, those scores will be handicapped based on your league handicap, which gives everyone in the group a chance to move up or down.

Handicaps theoretically knock down those 1000 rated players to the point that they've got to shoot 7-10 strokes better than the person they're playing.  Adam Olson (1010 I think) was a sub in the original league, and he gave up 5 strokes on a night he was playing a good opponent, but probably gave up 8 strokes to the median player.

We could theoretically cut the people into an A pool and a B pool, and pair members from each, but how do you decide who is in each pool?  There will be people on the cusp that could be in either, and there will surely be a wide range of skills in each pool.  As a result, a 1000 rated player could end up with a very talented am.  Also, some of the lower rated players in the A pool won't have a higher rated player as a partner, which could turn some people off.  Random doubles seems like the way to go to allow for the least complaining.  Plus, the handicaps have worked well for this league for 5+ years now (I think they're on 7 or 8 actually), and have anywhere from 800 rated females to 1000+ touring players playing against each other.

Timko

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3714
    • View Profile
Re: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2008, 04:27:05 PM »
With Mike moving my favorite league (Cliff Drive) to Saturdays, I think Monday is looking like the prevailing day to run this league.  Sorryto those who play Olathe, as well the new players league, but this seems to be the most popular day (I'm having to move my Monday evening yoga practice).

So I did some quick calculations, and I think we should shoot for 16 players.  That's 8 teams, over a 7 week tournament schedule:  one week to play each team.  I also did some quick calculation into the fee/payout scheme.  In this trial run, I'm going to attempt to pay deeper (4 spots) than giving 1st a huge sum of money. 

1. 175
2. 125
3. 90
4. 60

That totals to $450, which is pretty much $4 a person per match.  With $1 going to the club, that's a total of $5.  Ace fund will be optional and an extra $1.

Quick question about the points system:  The original Bushwackers don't assign points the 1st two weeks.  They establish their handicaps, the retroactively assign points for the 2 weeks based on these handicaps.  As a result, the points are totally up in the air until the end of the beginning of the 3rd round.  I don't really think it's fair to play people straight up the 1st two weeks until they've got a handicap.  It's also tough to throw out any weeks, because 7 weeks may already be a bit of a stretch as far as the timeline, and we want every team to play every other team.  The original league plays over 18 weeks, so things tend to even out over the long run.  I just think for a test run that's too much time to commit.

Anyways, let me know what you think.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 04:32:34 PM by Furthur »

The Bird Father

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1819
  • WOOT! WOOT!
    • View Profile
Re: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2008, 07:34:07 AM »
MONDAY IS OVERLOADED!!!

Why is it that people always pile on top of Olathe Mondays?  Cliff the last couple years, and new players league....guess Olathe will never get away from being the step child.

The new players league has always confused me also, since Olathe is the only league that actual keeps handicaps for Am players so that is was geared towards "new players" but then we go and have a "new players league" on the same day????

Why not make this league a weekend league?  I would love to play in something like this, but Mondays are too close to home.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 07:39:19 AM by Andy »
Just Another Dirty Bird

Bird > Word

Tom

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1959
    • View Profile
Re: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2008, 08:05:26 AM »
Isn't the day of the week a decision for the EC since it is a KCFDC event?
Monday does seem like a bad day with three different courses hosting action already. 

jack

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 7308
    • View Profile
Re: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2008, 10:11:45 AM »
Ok.....

There has not been a decision yet to move cliff drive to Saturday, that is a request by the current CC.  Makes sense to me if we can get more people out there.  As a league Cliff Drive was hosting ~6-9 people, most of these people WOULD NOT DRIVE THE 30-40 MINUTES from the course to Olathe.....thus why we agreed that Monday would not interfere with Olathe league.  We didn't get the feeling that it would even affect the New PLayers League.....still don't

New Players League......FREE.....ROSEDALE......Get people involved with the league play and understand the club does more.  THis is typically not a person that wants to go pay for league, but would rather determine if league play is an option......

Olathe-Very good league ran by good people, well attended, and not sure why your comment about the step child thing  Olathe has its own community, and seems to be doing well, but with over 11 courses in the area it is going to see some overlap, especially as more courses get closer to home.  This idea that Chris is bringing up could be a "super league" in time, and may need to move, but initally Monday seems to be the best day based on the responses.  Weekends IMHO would die from tournament play so it has to be a weekday, and what abuot SM Park, what about Lee Summit, what about Parkville, what about........With as many courses, and players out there, we need to offer more than the single option, of leagues, and venues on realistically everyday in my book.

But these are just my random thoughts.
===o  {>[]----
Jack Lowe-
Parks Development Director for KCFDC
Multiple PDGA Worlds TD
Course Designs
913.485.5123-C
"Disc Golf-
Like ball golf, only faster,
cheaper, and healthier!"

Mike Penney

  • Pro Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 546
    • View Profile
    • myspace
Re: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2008, 11:24:23 AM »
Monday - Prairie Center - Bob Hayett/Andy Lewis
Monday - Cliff Drive - ????????
Monday - Rosedale New Players - Steve Harris
Tuesday - Swope - ?????
Wednesday - Rosedale - ?????.
Thursday - Water Works - Ted Keith
Friday - Wyco - Tracy Walker/K-Mont (sometimes)/Tom Butler (sometimes)
Saturday - Olathe doubles (Bob)
Sunday nothing

Chris - Bushwhacker - not sure on day of week
Mike Penney

jack

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 7308
    • View Profile
Re: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2008, 11:32:07 AM »
What I am trying to say is that it is going to happen, and unless we come up with something like this type of league, we will never end up getting to know others throughout the area.  Des Moines is a traveling league on Tuesdays, they play in Indianola, Grandview, Big Creek, WW......every tuesday, but it is random draw every tuesday, with a handicap based on rounds scoring.

In the PAST,

Monday -rosedale/olathe

Thursday WW/Rosedale

Friday Wyco/Traveling skins

So there has been a long history of multiple events on days, just because it is not that way now, does not mean that Olathe has been singled out.  The reality is that we need to do something different to get everyone together for this type of league, or change things altogether with how leagues are ran in KC.  They are really "mini's" not leagues, and therefore if you CHOOSE to go to OLATHE on monday, these other decisions may not impact your choices. 

I don't know maybe we shouldn't have options for people to think about, I mean all the disc golfers must live by Cliff Drive and Olathe only right?

>:P
===o  {>[]----
Jack Lowe-
Parks Development Director for KCFDC
Multiple PDGA Worlds TD
Course Designs
913.485.5123-C
"Disc Golf-
Like ball golf, only faster,
cheaper, and healthier!"

The Bird Father

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1819
  • WOOT! WOOT!
    • View Profile
Re: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2008, 12:17:40 PM »
"IN THE PAST".. That's great...


I'm just trying to say that there are already 3 leagues on Monday night, until the EC decides otherwise, so why pile on 4 leagues to Monday?  I want to try this bushwacker stuff and know of several others that do to, but 13 voters with 5 voting for Monday doesn't feel like a popular vote that should be a determining factor.

Looks like I will have all kinds of choices for Mondays, but none for the rest of the week.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 12:20:00 PM by Andy »
Just Another Dirty Bird

Bird > Word

John Chapman

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1053
    • View Profile
Re: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2008, 12:32:50 PM »
"IN THE PAST".. That's great...


I'm just trying to say that there are already 3 leagues on Monday night, until the EC decides otherwise, so why pile on 4 leagues to Monday?  I want to try this bushwacker stuff and know of several others that do to, but 13 voters with 5 voting for Monday doesn't feel like a popular vote that should be a determining factor.

Looks like I will have all kinds of choices for Mondays, but none for the rest of the week.

If this Bushwhacker test league happens, it would most likely REPLACE Cliff Drive league (which wasn't drawing people away from Olathe, nor is the New Players league really)
Missouri....our state animal is sterile, our state rock is lead, and we elected a dead guy to the U.S. Senate.  Of course, he was the best candidate.

kohjahk

  • Guest
Re: Kansas City Bushwhacker's League Test
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2008, 01:54:47 PM »
Sunday nothing
I think Sunday is ugh, Pleasant Hill.  And maybe Beer league.