Author Topic: All arm drive  (Read 9353 times)

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joebquint

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All arm drive
« on: December 29, 2008, 06:15:22 PM »
Ok, I know that I am a newbie and that I stink.  My forehand drives, I can send the disc far down the fairway; however, when I throw RHBH, my disc goes nowhere.    After playing with someone who is much better he told me that I am opening up to quickly and just using my arm only.   I am sure that he is correct.  Is there any one who plays at SMP regularly that wouldn't mind hanging out with me for a round.  I would like to be able to throw farther than my wife who doesn't even use the X-step. 

Joe

Timko

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Re: All arm drive
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2008, 07:23:29 PM »
Joe, if I have some time this weekend, I would be more than happy to play a round with you.  There are some basic things like grip, weight transfer, and order of events in your throw that, if not happening correctly, can rob you of distance. 

I can give you a link to the site I link to the most when it comes to instruction (http://discgolfreview.com/resources/articles.shtml), but it really helps to have someone explain these things with some visual re-inforcement.  Thankfully, someone who has used these methods put together a short video that is super useful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nED7gcXobEo

It's probably the most useful on youtube.   The most useless video on youtube for instruction?  This one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5_I3ylBdjA

Keizer

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Re: All arm drive
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2008, 11:20:30 AM »
Has anyone ever had their drive (or know of anyone who has) recorded on a high-speed camera? Ball golfers have that done all the time to pick apart their driving mechanics, so it must work for picking apart a disc throw as well.

phisherman_77

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Re: All arm drive
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2008, 11:22:13 AM »
the first video is simply an example of trying to feel the "hit" of the disc when it rips out of your hand. it also teaches players to make sure the elbow is leading and that the pull should be as close to your chest as possible.

that video isn't meant to be a one stop shop on how to throw a disc, it was made to more easily illustrate the concepts that Blake Taukkenen of discgolfreview.com teaches, and the basis of his teaching is learning "from the hit backwards".

dickthediscparker

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Re: All arm drive
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2008, 12:42:56 PM »
Ok, I know that I am a newbie and that I stink.  My forehand drives, I can send the disc far down the fairway; however, when I throw RHBH, my disc goes nowhere.    After playing with someone who is much better he told me that I am opening up to quickly and just using my arm only.   I am sure that he is correct.  Is there any one who plays at SMP regularly that wouldn't mind hanging out with me for a round.  I would like to be able to throw farther than my wife who doesn't even use the X-step. 

Joe

Joe for $20 I'll come out to SMP and give you a 2 hour lesson.  I'll video tape your throw and show you what you are doing wrong and try to give you suggestions on how to better your over all game.   If you don't feel like you learned anything the lesson is free.

dick 913-206-7157
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joebquint

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Re: All arm drive
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2008, 07:37:21 PM »
Thanks everyone for the support. 

Chris, it would be great to meet up with you and anyone else.  Like anything admitting that you have a problem is the first step... At least that is what I keep hearing.

I know that there is no magic bullets but correct technique is always the best direction.

my email is joe_b_quint@hotmail.com


Timko

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Re: All arm drive
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2008, 09:54:13 PM »
Joe, no problem.

As far as the links I posted, you mentioned that early release is a problem.  One of the cures for that is the rebuilding of your throw from the point of release (often referred to as the hit), backwards. Taukkenen's theories are actually based on some of the throwing theories put forth by Dave Dunipace, which states that all the reach back and run up in one's throw is simply to get your body primed to get the elbow extended towards the target so you can begin acceleration component of your throw.

Often, when people are releasing early, it's because they're using a big reach back, but swinging the arm out super far (in effect locking their elbow a bit) instead of bending the elbow and bringing the disc in close.  A drill like I posted in the 1st video teaches you how to first understand what the feeling of throwing from your left pec is like, then how to start incorporating more weight transfer and a bigger reach back into the throw. 

Schoen-hopper

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Re: All arm drive
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2008, 11:14:13 PM »
This thread is making me wonder about throwing with a "stiff arm" technique.  Theoretically, it makes sense that if you have a long arm and you are slinging it out with centrifical force, there would be a lot of potential for distance.  Most long throwers I've seen bend the elbow and bring it in close.

When I have seen people throw straight armed, I've noticed that it gives them huge accuracy problems.  With the bent elbox "backswing" you can get the motion going straight back and straight towards the target.  Getting the disc too far away causes a lot of early or late releases and it seems like other control issues would come up as well.  But strickly for distance, would the straight arm throw work well?

Timko

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Re: All arm drive
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2008, 08:39:16 AM »
I think you've still got to bend the arm, but the question is what's leading your throw.  From what we've discussed on the DGR board over the past few years, there are 2 prevailing techniques.  The Shoulder Lead and the Elbow Lead.  The Elbow Lead is what I described earlier, where you push through to the target with your elbow pointing your disc on the line.  It's a technique that's often seen in most of the throwers in the NC area.  It's very accurate, and requires less moving parts.  The Shoulder Lead has you pulling your arm with your shoulder to sling the disc out there.  When I was messing around with it, I would reach back with a minimally bent elbow, and start the pull from my shoulder.  My arm would straighten, creating a feeling of lag between the disc and the body.  The Shoulder Lead is often seen in the Midwest, especially the Minnesota/Iowa area.

We think there's more potential distance from the Shoulder Lead, but that's only if you're going for really big distance (500+).  The Elbow Lead has less variables, and seems easier to grasp the feeling of the hit from.  I think for most people, this technique is easier to learn and use quickly.

One more link.  This is Walt Haney, a pro from the NC area.  He's a reference often cited for having great bent elbow form.

http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/analysis/walterhaney.shtml

joebquint

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Re: All arm drive
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2008, 11:06:38 AM »
I am not sure my release is early, but that I open up my body too early.  From the discussion here, for best power you rotate your body to "store" energy and then release it.  One of my buddies suggested that I am not doing this and just chucking it with my arm resulting in a pathetic throw.

I am going to spend some time with Dick this weekend and see if he can provide some insights and then I will post back the situation.

joebquint

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Re: All arm drive
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2009, 04:44:00 PM »
Thanks Dick for the lesson today!  I really enjoyed myself and can now throw farther than my wife!   


Big Sky

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Re: All arm drive
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2009, 08:02:09 PM »
Personally, I would recommend starting from the ground - up.

Pay more attention to what your feet are doing and where your hips are orientated.

You are based from the ground, so your balance and power originate from there.

joebquint

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Re: All arm drive
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2009, 09:34:00 PM »
Agreed, Dick said that disc golf is like a toy spinning drum. 



I think this make perfect sense.  Your core does the work and your arm just follows. 

Keizer

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Re: All arm drive
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2009, 09:27:51 AM »
Dick was classically trained by the Mr. Miyagi of disc golf. You're lucky he's sharing those lessons with you!

Dick, you're the best around-- no one's gonna ever take you down.

Tom

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Re: All arm drive
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2009, 09:54:49 AM »
Dick was classically trained by the Mr. Miyagi of disc golf. You're lucky he's sharing those lessons with you!

Dick, you're the best around-- no one's gonna ever take you down.

Actually, the best around, or say within 90 minutes of KC is Eric McCabe. Dick is possibly in the top 50 in KC though.  ;D