Author Topic: Population Explosion  (Read 1573 times)

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MoLewis

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Population Explosion
« on: March 17, 2009, 09:59:52 AM »
Record turnouts at this years Ice  Bowl.....and big fields for the c-tiers in St. Louis this past weekend.  This may be a big year for DGs growth.  Every open invitation tournament better be ready.   I have a few questions and a few suggestions.  These are ideas I bounced off some players this past weekend at Jefferson Barracks and Sioux Passage, and I will include some of their thoughts here too. 

1.  Limiting Tournament Fields - I was turned away from the Kan-u-Wyco.  I was disappointed, but I totally understand.  When a player pays to play in a tournament, especially if they travel a distance to do so, they should expect a certain level of organization as well as a fun playing experience.   If the fields are jammed and rounds last 5 hours (like they did this past weekend in StL) players get pissed.   Late arrivals were added to the already bursting field, and the rounds took so long, no final 9s were played, no ring of fire, and results weren't announced until 8pm.
 
      "But we can't turn people away"

Don't get me wrong, I still had a great time meeting new people and playing a beautiful course, but because of the large turnout, 6 temp holes were added.  I'm not a big fan of this option.  First off, there is a big difference between 36 and 48 holes in a day.  I was wiped out.  I think this also hurts the integrity of the 18 hole course.   I drove 4 hours to play the 18 holes at Sioux Passage, not 18 holes and 6 mini golf holes.  I also question how these rounds will be rated by the PDGA.  Here is another option.  Set up your shotgun start with 5 players per hole.  Charge late arrivals an extra fee....$10 or so....and add them into the flow starting on hole #1 -alternating with players coming off #18.  Soon there will be a back up of players coming off 18, and as they wait to rejoin the course hold your ring of fire THEN.  Maybe a round every 5 minutes for the waiting groups, with prizes purchased with the extra money you charged the late comers.   Maybe if demand is so high, tournament fees should be raised.
 
      "But disc golf is a poor mans sport, it needs to stay cheap."
     
       Disc golf is still FREE, and if someone doesn't want to pay, or doesn't have the money, they can play any number of the other courses, just not THIS course today ..... tournaments are different. 

I really don't have any experience here, and I'm kind of talking out my ass, I know.....But there has to be a better way.  Love for this to spark debate.  Hope it helps.  I have other thoughts I'll share later.  79 for todays high.. ;D ..you know where I'm heading.


Kevin Montgomery

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Re: Population Explosion
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2009, 12:08:56 PM »
The integrity of the course and speed of play are a couple of the main reasons why the Kan-U-WyCo has not relented to the "don't turn anyone away" mentality. The payout has been average at best and the weather has been hit and miss, mostly miss. But it still fills and people have a good time and come back to play the next year. I think one of the reasons is integrity. No added wombat holes and no crowded ghost cards. Just good competitive golf on a permanent well known course. And if the TD has a full, or nearly full, field before the day of the event a lot of the preparation and paperwork can be done in advance and the entire event will flow more smoothly adding to everyone's enjoyment. Adding cards and holes at the last minute cheapens the experience and slows everything down from  play on the course to tallying scores and figuring prizes. It's just not good business and running a sanctioned tourney is a like business that shuts down after the event paperwork is all done until a couple months before the next year's event. If you don't treat it like that it can end up a clusterf*ck like you just described.

If disc golf is a poor man's sport then let the truly poor men go ahead and play casual at an open course near them. No offense intended but there will be other events aimed more at the casual player that doesn't have or want to invest much money in the game. The intention of a PDGA sanctioned event is to bring serious competitors together to compete. The poor man's sport argument holds no water. Cheaper tourneys aiming mostly for fun rather than competition should be non-sanctioned and won't attract the same crowd usually. A PDGA sanctioned event should be held to a higher standard, period.

As for the ring-of-fire or CTP contest taking place while #18 waits for the ghost card(s) to clear out, that will violate the rules of the game. Each additional throw could be considered a practice throw. I don't know if that rule could be left to the TD's discretion or not. I suppose that if everyone playing were given the same number of throws during that phase of the round it would be a wash but it seems like a gray area to me.

I think this is a great discussion to have and look forward to seeing other opinions.
Kevin Montgomery
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Timko

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Re: Population Explosion
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2009, 01:12:15 PM »
As for the ring-of-fire or CTP contest taking place while #18 waits for the ghost card(s) to clear out, that will violate the rules of the game. Each additional throw could be considered a practice throw. I don't know if that rule could be left to the TD's discretion or not. I suppose that if everyone playing were given the same number of throws during that phase of the round it would be a wash but it seems like a gray area to me.

Speaking to this issue:  I remember reading that there were putting stations at the USDGC this year for holes where backups often occur (#13, 888 comes to mind).  They had a special provision to do this.  Not sure if it's up to the TD or you have to get permission from the pdga. 

discglover

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Re: Population Explosion
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 12:14:25 AM »
Re: Population Explosion


Same response on another thread.

Disc Golf Fever

EVERYBODY HAS IT!!!
AND THERE'S NO CURE!!!
Steven Disc Glover

MoLewis

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Re: Population Explosion
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2009, 11:00:15 AM »
OK....Round 2.  Last weekends C-Tiers in StL. 

1) Pretty expensive for having no players pack.  Most raffle tickets winners drawn picked up a brand new.........mini?  Really?  I'm a winner?   As stated earlier, no ring of fire.  That saved some money and plastic. 

2)  About "Sandbaggers".   There really isn't much you can do if some stud comes in from out of town and enters a lower classification, but if you are holding an event and someone you know from your own club enters below their class, and you allow it....shame on you.   If you let the good players in your club spread out across the divisions just so the locals can garner the lions share of the prizes, shame on you.  Morgan Hart, shame on you.  PDGA has player ratings.  Please enforce.  Why don't you cowards move UP a division and really test yourselves.  I had to convince my 15 year old that he has to play in the "JR" division in this years Worlds.  He wants to move up NOW, for the experience. 

As of Wednesday AM.....still no results from the StL tournys.  Every other event from last weekend has reported.  Get it together.

If I'm out of line here, let me know. 

phisherman_77

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Re: Population Explosion
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2009, 11:13:21 AM »
about the sandbagging - i'm pretty sure morgan hart is rated around 931, at least he was last year, and that's under the cutoff for Intermediate. 

secondly, about the results not being posted, not knocking on dave mccormack as he makes great putters, but in the past, his results are not always posted that quickly.  i think both of the ozark mountain results were not posted for quite a while.

rondisc

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Re: Population Explosion
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2009, 04:16:30 PM »
about the sandbagging - i'm pretty sure morgan hart is rated around 931, at least he was last year, and that's under the cutoff for Intermediate. 

secondly, about the results not being posted, not knocking on dave mccormack as he makes great putters, but in the past, his results are not always posted that quickly.  i think both of the ozark mountain results were not posted for quite a while.

Not looking for an arguement.  I will probably not look at this again for a while.  I just ended up here from our website.  Peace to all in KC.

#1 MH is probably bagging in STL.  He has never played any real competition outside STL.  I am sure he will not do it again.  I have been trying to get him out of STL so it shows him that there are some darn good golfers out there.  Now if he went to BG he might make top 15 in int.  Look at this yrs high rating playing am1, if I remember correctly 1004.  Difference between a C-tier A-tier.

#2 For some reason STL is trying to grow the game especially with our C-tiers.  In the last 2 years they have not turned one person away for the C-tiers.  I do not have a problem w/this.  What I do have is a very tiny issue with is the people that show up late.  I cannot stand to have to keep continaully(sp) redoing the board and working on score cards after the late time.  Now I can only speak for Sat. but I know of 2 people that said our website said 10am
I have not found this on our site yet but have looked.  Players packs, huh if your are turning nobody away how can you  predict how many PP you are going to need for this tourny. 

#3 We are working on a fix for #2.

#4 Keep in mind we are the 2nd big city in MO that plays discgolf also

#5 C-tiers IT IS ABOUT GROWING THE SPORT, correct :).

#6 Jeff is doing as good of a job as he can.  He said scores will be up by weeks end.  WE will handle this if it does not.

#7 and Biggest and remember this, DM is a sponsor and does a lot for our club, BUT HE DOES NOT run RCFDGC.

Hope you all are playing golf.

I have not played since last friday, cracked my ribs in the tub before dinner that night.  Weather is fine here and it S#KS knowing I cannot play for 4-6 weeks :'(

Peace to my KC friends
Ron


MoLewis

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Re: Population Explosion
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2009, 05:41:20 PM »
I went too far in my previous posts, and I apologize.   

To Morgan Hart, I'm sorry I brought your name into this.  You're a great player and from what I've heard, a really nice guy too. 

To the St. Louis Club and its members, I know you want what we all want for the sport.   You're intentions are pure. 

I've just come to really love this sport and I want it to grow and grow.  I think you do that with hard work and integrity.   The game sells itself.  If we want people to stay they need to feel welcome and we need a sense of fair play and strong organization.  That starts with us as players.  Showing the newbie the course, even giving them one of your discs so they'll have two.  I've heard these stories and it speaks to the character of some of you. 
And somebodies first tournament experience could determine if they stay with it. 
Like I said in a previous post, I think this is going to be a big summer for Disc Golf.  Lets put our best foot forward and welcome the masses. 
Again, Sorry for the over the top comments.  Didn't mean to start a flame war.  And everything considered, I had a great time this weekend back in my home town.