Author Topic: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...  (Read 4064 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

discglover

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1429
    • View Profile
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2009, 12:27:57 AM »
I'll stick to courses I know are SAFE!!! Thanks for the tip.

No one said the course isn't safe Dorkio, they said that they are enforcing the law of the land within the park.  I do not know how many times I have posted in here, don't drink at this park.  Are you really surprised?  Now I for one personally feel as though this is a complete invasion of privacy and rights, but that is not the issue.  The issue is that the entire PARK is ALCOHOL FREE, they have their OWN POLICE FORCE, what did you seriously expect.  Maybe now you will realize that you need to go the 1-2 hours without drinking, smoking, or doing other activities that are against the rules and law.  So why not start a trend and just......play 18 holes of disc golf,get in your car and go where you want to do what you want, just don't do it in the park.....

On a side note, the idea of playing at SM Park just got better by the same comment!  ;D :D

Your personal attacks are totally uncalled for just as the harassment people are getting that are abiding by the law.

I obviously meant I will play where I know I won't get harassed.

I'd say your setting a fine example on here as you are vice pres. of the club attacking one of its members for making a totally innocent comment.
Steven Disc Glover

aarong

  • Am Poster
  • *
  • Posts: 103
  • no low putts!
    • View Profile
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2009, 07:36:52 AM »
i'm with ya jack. it's posted on here tons to not drink in that park and that they have their own police.
i say go to another one of our ten or eleven parks to drink. no need to trash that course with (full?) beer cans.
#37485

Kevin Montgomery

  • Administrator
  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 2731
  • Nice shot!
    • View Profile
    • http://kcfdc.org
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2009, 09:16:24 AM »
....no need to trash that course with (full?) beer cans.

No doubt....  The post referred to here made me realize why the rangers at SMP are behaving this way. Throwing full beer cans into the woods to keep from getting a ticket, when it is clearly posted that no alcohol is allowed in the park and it has been clearly stated here on this discussion board as well, makes our argument against the rangers intrusive behavior completely moot. Apparently they have good reason to suspect disc golfers for carrying beers and ignoring the laws. Let's try to set a better example. It's a fun course to play and we are lucky to have it there. Leave the beer in the trunk and enjoy your round. If they want to check to see if you are toting beer then assure them you aren't. Ted started this thread as a warning but clarified his comments by stating the the ranger treated them with respect and was pleasant once he was assured they had no beer. I can totally understand why they would be pissed at disc golfers if they keep finding empty (and full) beer cans all over the course. Seeing that pisses me off too.

My earlier comments were referring to a search of the disc golf bag. It sounds to me like it was just a quick look for large items, like beer cans and bottles. The ranger didn't physically dig around in anyone's DG bag it doesn't sound like. You can get more intrusive searches at rock concerts and such. Their actions, while annoying and objectionable for the most part are obviously warranted.

Long story short... (too late)... don't carry beer on the course at SMP!

Kevin Montgomery
Eschew Obfuscation
KCFDC #117
PDGA# 12037
http://www.kcfdc.org

Tom

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1895
    • View Profile
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2009, 10:25:39 AM »
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.  8)

Schoen-hopper

  • Pro Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 636
    • View Profile
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2009, 11:03:45 AM »
Keizer, can you write one of your tall tales about an experience with the cops at SMP? :D

jack

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 6972
    • View Profile
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2009, 11:29:41 AM »
"Your personal attacks are totally uncalled for just as the harassment people are getting that are abiding by the law"-glover

Not a personal attack Steve, but what you said, that you'd go to parks that are safe is absolutely wrong, and hurtful towards the park.

"I obviously meant I will play where I know I won't get harassed."-glover
don't break the law and you wont get harrassed, if it wasn't a problem, which since this is a new issue, as we have had the course in for awhile now, it has become a problem they want to control, good for them, they want the land free and clear for the deer to roam and multiply!! ;D

"I'd say your setting a fine example on here as you are vice pres. of the club attacking one of its members for making a totally innocent comment."--glover

I do not view it as attacking, I view your response as an inappropriate statement to something that has been voiced, stated, and conveyed countless times, and your response that the park is not safe is completely inaccurate, if anything the park is the most safe in all of our parks.  Protected, and secured to the point that they feel there is a problem and they are addressing it within the lay of the land that they control.  If you view it as attacking, then you should practice more your writing skills, because it was not an attack, you the Dorkio comment maybe rude, but not attacking Glover......

The bottom line is that Kevin summed it up great.  Glover all parks have rules, break them and see what happens.  This case SM Park has their own police force, would you really expect them to not abide by the rules that they have made clear are part of the park?  Realize even if we have 200 golfers daily in the park, that we would still amount to less than 10% of the park traffic, and if we are causing 30-40% of the trash then its an issue. 

Folks pack out what you pack in....if you don't have a bunch of beer then its easier to pack it out, and by the same token, if you have it cold in the car, you'll play faster, and leave the area quicker, and have your round done, and have less of a chance to leave trash behind.....

Glover, really.....you want to call me out as attacking.....i'll not bite on that, my teeth would cause dried blood to ruin our servers, then what would we have to chat about without the computer? :o
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 11:41:14 AM by jack »
===o  {>[]----
Jack Lowe-
Parks Development Director for KCFDC
Multiple PDGA Worlds TD
Course Designs
913.485.5123-C
"Disc Golf-
Like ball golf, only faster,
cheaper, and healthier!"

john theiss

  • Pro Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 820
    • View Profile
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2009, 01:17:26 PM »
I can not explain how frustrating the beer drinking issue is at Yates.  I find myself out there picking up  beer cans instead of enjoying my round.  You would think people would get the idea of not drinking at a park where it is prohibited, or at an elementary school.  Obviously not, because i continue to be funding my childrens college fund by all the beer cans i find at Yates. 

seriously golfers, figure it out!

Rick Rothstein

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 1188
    • View Profile
    • http://www.discgolfworld.com
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2009, 01:45:36 PM »
I posted this at the end of 2007 in a thread about the possibility of losing the course if people ignored the SMP rules.  It's worth repeating, even though the last sentence has yet to come to pass.

When entering into an agreement with Johnson County Parks and Recreation, the KCFDC agreed to abide by the rules and regulations that govern the Park. I expect that the directors of Club events and leagues at the Park will be educating participants about these rules and discouraging any illegal behavior during these events. That being said, the Club, outside of communicating these rules in newsletters, course boards, and on our web site, cannot ensure what individuals choose to do. From what's been written here, it sounds like the Park Rangers are pretty adept at enforcing the rules, and thus, I don't think a few people getting busted here and there would result in the course's removal.

For more about the Johnson County P & R regulations, go to
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:lfhAXTTD3G4J:www.jcprd.com/park_admin/pdf/jcprd_park_police_code-regulations.pdf+shawnee+mission+parks+regulations+and+fines&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Here you will find a set fine schedule for:

2.1.3 Dogs off leash: first offense $50; 2nd $75; 3rd $100.
2.1.6 Alcohol possession: $50; $75; $100.
2.1.13 Curfew violation: $25; $50; $100.

So, if you have a hankering to let Fido run wild on the disc golf course during a late-night round while drinking a beer, it might well be a $125 fine (and they'll probably empty your beer)!

I fully expect this course to be discovered by lots of new players, including families with younger children. With the success of John Theiss' junior tournament and the opening of this alcohol-free course, I think there are immense opportunities to promote the healthful benefits of disc golf in addition to its competitive and social benefits. I can foresee one or two smoke- and alcohol-free tournaments being added to the calendar next year.
Rick Rothstein
Instigator, Ice Bowl 2014
At Large Member, KCFDC Board of Directors
President, Disc Golf World

Disc Golf World
816.471.3472 (w)
816.914.0094 (c)
www.discgolfworld.com

CD

  • The "Compact" Disc Player
  • Administrator
  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1478
  • Don't EVER forget to putt out. Period.
    • View Profile
    • http://MOKANdiscgolf.org
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2009, 02:18:47 PM »
I can not explain how frustrating the beer drinking issue is at Yates.  I find myself out there picking up  beer cans instead of enjoying my round.  You would think people would get the idea of not drinking at a park where it is prohibited, or at an elementary school.  Obviously not, because i continue to be funding my childrens college fund by all the beer cans i find at Yates. 

seriously golfers, figure it out!

No doubt! I play out there maybe once a month and always find beer cans  >:(
Duane "CD" Steiner
Team INNOVA Ambassador
Independence MO
PDGA #2883; KCFDC #002
Bagtags:
2014: 3, 17
2013: 3, 40, 10, 148, 32, 19, 84, 184, 15, 1, 118
"Sometimes it's better to be looked over than to be overlooked."

jhawkr

  • Guest
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2009, 02:22:12 PM »
I've played the course several times over the last year with no issue, so this seems like a new policy handed down to the patrols. Last week I too was stopped for no reason by officer Hoover. He asked to see the contents of my bag though I had done nothing wrong.

After I felt forced into exposing my belongings - keys, wallet , phone etc., he said have a nice day and proceeded to the groups of people following me. To say I felt a bit violated would be an understatement.  If they want to patrol fine, its will be nice to have an alcohol free environment. I am all for it because I dont drink, but to check each and every persons bag just because they are playing disc golf seems out of line. I kept my eye on him and eventually he brought 2 guys down to his patrol car with a beer. If litter is a problem then why don't they install trash cans at places that are more accessible?

I will be more likely to write the papers and mayor to complain about being interrogated for using the parks than to play disc golf here again based on principal alone. Its a shame, its seems like a great place to play.

Twister66

  • Pro Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2009, 02:32:25 PM »
I live and work in Johnson County and brought this issue up at work the other day. I was surprised to hear that at least five out of twelve of them had some connection to being searched or busted for beer in the park over the last few years.  Some of them had been fishing others playing softball, but not a single person knew that a disc golf course existed in the park.  This is simple logic with only anecdotal data, but I don't think that they are targeting just disc golfers.  They really don’t want alcohol in the park. 
Jim Sherwood

Spencer

  • Guest
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2009, 02:48:00 PM »
It is a frustrating situation because with the exception of once or twice in the last 5 years I do not drink while I golf, either, and thus I am enfuriated by these searches.  it is also enfuriating, however, that people drink on the course and litter all over the place, which is obviously the root cause of the whole problem-a few idiots who can't play a round of gold without beer.  back to the bag searches-I could see it being reasonable if people had glasses or aluminum cans and the ranger swoops by casually to make sure it is not beer; however, going from group to group and asking to see the contents of their bags is unconstitutional and harassing.  if you are not drinking or doing anything else illegal or against park regulations, and are asked to be searched by an officer I would simply state "I do not consent to any seaches, am I free to finish my golf round now?" At this point the officer needs to buzz off or they are violating your rights since they do not have probable cause to search you.  Unfortunately, there are always going to be idiots who drink at SMP, or yates, or who dump trash all over Cliff, etc., hopefully these people get caught and ticketed, but other than that all we can do is try to promote the game in a positive fashion and set good examples by cleaning up trash on the course during rounds.  Officer Hoover needs to do his job within the parameters of our constitution- and idiots who drink at non-drinking courses and who litter need to get a life, grow up, and show some respect for the courses and other people who enjoy them.

CD

  • The "Compact" Disc Player
  • Administrator
  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1478
  • Don't EVER forget to putt out. Period.
    • View Profile
    • http://MOKANdiscgolf.org
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2009, 02:53:33 PM »
Well spoken, young Grasshopper  :)
Duane "CD" Steiner
Team INNOVA Ambassador
Independence MO
PDGA #2883; KCFDC #002
Bagtags:
2014: 3, 17
2013: 3, 40, 10, 148, 32, 19, 84, 184, 15, 1, 118
"Sometimes it's better to be looked over than to be overlooked."

jack

  • 1000 Rated Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 6972
    • View Profile
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2009, 03:00:25 PM »
I live and work in Johnson County and brought this issue up at work the other day. I was surprised to hear that at least five out of twelve of them had some connection to being searched or busted for beer in the park over the last few years.  Some of them had been fishing others playing softball, but not a single person knew that a disc golf course existed in the park.  This is simple logic with only anecdotal data, but I don't think that they are targeting just disc golfers.  They really don’t want alcohol in the park. 

Its not a disc golf thing.....its a SM Park thing....I don't like the searches either, but if they target all patrons of the park, maybe they just realized that there is a disc golf course there now as a few others have figured out!! ;D
===o  {>[]----
Jack Lowe-
Parks Development Director for KCFDC
Multiple PDGA Worlds TD
Course Designs
913.485.5123-C
"Disc Golf-
Like ball golf, only faster,
cheaper, and healthier!"

Anthony Puryear

  • Pro Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 434
    • View Profile
Re: Welcome to Friendly Shawnee Mission...
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2009, 11:26:52 PM »
I understand that you don't want your bag searched. Honestly I don't care. I feel like they have provided the park for me to play in, so they can choose to do what they want. I think we just have to remember to respect them even if they do ask to search our bags. Because I have a feeling the more disgruntle disc golfers they run into who complain about them searching it, or have a bad attitude towards a guy who is just doing his job, the more they will continue to search our bags. But hopefully if we show them respect and are polite to them, even if we don't agree with what they are doing, they will at least start to show us a little respect in return.
And let's not forget that it sounds like they are getting ready to really make some improvements on this course. tee pads, new pins, etc... This is going to turn out to be a sweet course to play. I would hate to give disc golf a bad name after they are doing some great stuff to make the game itself better for us.
If I got a nickel for every time that I aced at least I'd have a nickel!