Author Topic: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?  (Read 2152 times)

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CD

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Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
« on: July 08, 2009, 12:34:56 PM »
Posted at... 12:34:56 7/8/9
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 12:49:11 PM by CD »
Duane "CD" Steiner
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David E

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Re: Does Anybody Real Know What Time It Is?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2009, 12:47:40 PM »
..... does anybody really care?
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CD

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Re: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2009, 12:48:36 PM »
It may have been "Saturday in the Park" and it may have been "The Fourth of July"  ;D
Duane "CD" Steiner
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Cade

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Re: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2009, 01:41:28 PM »
So, wait... what time is it again?  ???

Newton
Newton's "Scholium" provides a number of arguments for absolute time. Distinguishing between relative and absolute time allowed for the corrections of inequalities in the solar day, the amount of time it takes for the sun to return to its zenith, which was originally thought to be uniform throughout. Whereas the Ptolemaic astronomy of antiquity considered the sideral day--the amount of needed for a fixed star to return to its zenith--to be constant, emerging theories during the scientific revolution began to doubt that the rotation of the Earth remained constant over a year (a constant rotation was crucial to the uniformity of the sideral day). With Newton's theory of time, absolute time could remain constant even as relative time was liable to change due to changes in the Earth's rotation.

Einstein
In 1915, Albert Einstein first proposed his theory of special relativity.  Essentially, this theory proposes the universe we live in includes 4 dimensions, the first three being what we know as space, and the fourth being spacetime, which is a dimension where time and space are inextricably linked.  According to Einstein, two people observing the same event in the same way could perceive the singular event occurring at two different times, depending upon their distance from the event in question.  These types of differences arise from the time it takes for light to travel through space.  Since light does travel at a finite and ever-constant speed, an observer from a more distant point will perceive an event as occurring later in time; however, the event is "actually" occurring at the same instant in time.  Thus, "time" is dependent on space.

Kant
His first argument states that our notions of time, such as simultaneity and succession are “mind-contributed”, meaning that our minds develop these ideas to explain the relationship of different events, because they are presupposed in our perception of simultaneous or successive events in time. His second argument postulates that time is an a priori structure (i.e. it is inherent in our mind without the use of empirical data) because there exists the possibility of considering time by itself, without the use of objects for it to define, however all objects must be defined by time. His third argument claims that because time is a universal concept and is measured the same way by all people, it must be a priori, because if it was a posteriori, there would be “neither strict universality nor apodictic certainty." His fourth and fifth arguments, Kant argues that time is sensible, rather than conceptual imposed upon experience by the mind.

Hawking
Hawking proposes a unique view of time, building on the theories established by Newton, Einstein, and even Kant (though Kant took a philosophical approach, Hawking incorporates this factor as well).  Hawking visualizes time as a series of 3 "arrows."  There is the thermodynamic arrow, the cosmological arrow, and the psychological arrow.  The concept of these arrows help explain why we see time as moving "forward," and what this "flow" of time actually is in terms of the expansion and contraction of the universe.  Essentially, these arrows help distinguish the past from the future, and give a direction to time. In our current state of the universe, all these arrows are pointing in the same direction; however, this will not always be the case, according to Hawking.  The thermodynamic arrow is derived from the second law of thermodynamics, which states that in any closed system, disorder (entropy) always increases with time.  Take an example of a glass falling from a table.  The glass begins in a state of heightened order; it is all in one piece.  As time passes, the glass hits the floor, and shatters into many pieces, increasing the disorder, or entropy, tremendously.
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CD

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Re: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2009, 01:54:42 PM »
What if I just wanted to know when "last call" was  ???
Duane "CD" Steiner
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Cade

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Re: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2009, 02:07:11 PM »
What if I just wanted to know when "last call" was  ???

Last call theory stipulates that a body at drink will remain at drink until such time that bartender X directs said body to the door.
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Kevin Montgomery

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Re: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2009, 02:43:38 PM »
One of my favorite philosophical exercises has always been to try and imagine space without time. Go ahead, I dare you.....   :o

Would the glass still break? Would the sun still set.....? How long would it take you to get to work? (that question becomes meaningless, or does it?) etc....

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jack

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Re: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2009, 03:42:54 PM »
Mine is if we inhabit Mars, where the year would be considerably longer, would we age at a slower pace, or keep on aging at our earthen length?
===o  {>[]----
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goat

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Re: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2009, 03:43:57 PM »
I first thought you were referencing an act of solicitation.  After more consideration, here's something that may help with the philosophy ::):

The Philosopher's Song (Monty Python)

Immanuel Kant was a real pissant
Who was very rarely stable.
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who could think you under the table.
David Hume could out-consume
Wilhelm Freidrich Hegel,
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel.

There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya'
'Bout the raising of the wrist.
SOCRATES, HIMSELF, WAS PERMANENTLY PISSED...

John Stuart Mill, of his own free will,
On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.
Plato, they say, could stick it away;
Half a crate of whiskey every day.
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
Hobbes was fond of his dram,
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart: "I drink, therefore I am"
Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed!

jack

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Re: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2009, 03:45:13 PM »
KNEE
===o  {>[]----
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CD

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Re: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2009, 04:13:42 PM »
Mine is if we inhabit Mars, where the year would be considerably longer, would we age at a slower pace, or keep on aging at our earthen length?

Sure, but would they "grandfather" me in to the Martian Masters Division  ???  And would "Mark Martin" become "Mark the Martian"  :D
Duane "CD" Steiner
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2016: 1, 3, 18, 6
DD: 7, 108
2015: 3,2,39,2,66,33,3
2014: 3/57
2013: 4
"Sometimes it's better to be looked over than to be overlooked."

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Re: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2009, 04:17:29 PM »
Mine is if we inhabit Mars, where the year would be considerably longer, would we age at a slower pace, or keep on aging at our earthen length?

Physics and philosophy are two different things Jack.....    ::)

    Descartes walks into a bar.

    The bartender walks up to him and says, “Would you care for a drink?”

    Descartes replied, “I think not.” and disappears.
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David E

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Re: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2009, 08:38:34 PM »
It's twelve o'clock somewhere!
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eupher61

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Re: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2009, 09:52:31 PM »
you gotta read "The Sparrow" by Mary Doria Russell.  Science Fiction really isn't my thing, but this book is great.  Discussions about contact with alien life, time relative to light speed travel, a lot of philosophy if you want to read into it.  Great book!  The sequel is "Children of God", not quite as good overall, only because it gets a little deeper. 
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John Chapman

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Re: Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2009, 12:04:11 PM »
I first thought you were referencing an act of solicitation.  After more consideration, here's something that may help with the philosophy ::):

The Philosopher's Song (Monty Python)

Immanuel Kant was a real pissant
Who was very rarely stable.
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who could think you under the table.
David Hume could out-consume
Wilhelm Freidrich Hegel,
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel.

There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya'
'Bout the raising of the wrist.
SOCRATES, HIMSELF, WAS PERMANENTLY PISSED...

John Stuart Mill, of his own free will,
On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.
Plato, they say, could stick it away;
Half a crate of whiskey every day.
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
Hobbes was fond of his dram,
And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart: "I drink, therefore I am"
Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed;
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed!


Mind if we call you Bruce then, to keep it clear?
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