Author Topic: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers  (Read 16320 times)

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Dan Weinert

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #180 on: May 13, 2010, 11:50:50 AM »
For sure, just think that the two guys that put there designs in put alot of time and thought into these courses.  Probably more than most course designers since they are local designers and don't have a time crunch.

I can tell you both of the final designers worked their butts off on this project. I live about 5 minutes from the Complex and both these guys live right at about an hour away and they still were out there more then I was in the initial stages of the project.

If I had to guess, I'd say that they both have well over 100 hours invested!

Stay tuned...getting closer to pulling the trigger on the deal.

We will have some volunteer days coming up real soon...just dealing with some stuff that's already down. (trees & branches)

We always sneak in a round or two afterwards!!
For a good time: Lat- 3925'8.92"N, Long- 9433'18.52"W

jack

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #181 on: May 13, 2010, 01:05:57 PM »
For sure, just think that the two guys that put there designs in put alot of time and thought into these courses.  Probably more than most course designers since they are local designers and don't have a time crunch.

I doubt it.....having spent countless hours of time to prep for the courses, get the funding approved, make it happen, its really about how bad you want to have a course to play, and not about the money in our sport at this point......but then you are listening to a person that has raised over $500,000 for disc golf in Kansas City with no payment to date for any of the work that has been done out of that....but please enjoy the work that I do to help you enjoy the sport, thats satisfaction enough on many levels!

You want to get paid for it, it needs to be discussed and approved before hand not after the fact.  You either say I want xx$$, or I won't do it, and you don't.....or you do it and be happy that you have your name attached to something that you feel good about.....
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Jack Lowe-
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Course Designs
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"Disc Golf-
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Seansponsoredam

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #182 on: May 13, 2010, 04:17:35 PM »
Thanks Jack for all of your countless hours of volunteering, just thought that I would inject my two cents.   I'm still not voting for you!!  Unless you pay for my pdga membership.  I will make that stipulation up front!!  Just kidding, seriously you and many others make it possible for guys like me to play at wonderful courses around this town.  Thank you, to all that volunteer and who those who continue to give back to this sport that I enjoy so much.

jack

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #183 on: May 13, 2010, 04:27:20 PM »
Thanks Sean, not really looking for a shameless plug, but the fact remains that the idea of paying disc golf designers is still a battle that is fought daily.

This year alone, I have lost 4 bids, because I said pay me......I gave them a free prelim work, which is ok, and I will add it to my list of places that I helped, but I still get nothing for the time.... :-[  just makes me 8) though.... ;D
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Jack Lowe-
Parks Development Director for KCFDC
Multiple PDGA Worlds TD
Course Designs
913.485.5123-C
"Disc Golf-
Like ball golf, only faster,
cheaper, and healthier!"

Dan Weinert

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #184 on: May 13, 2010, 08:47:50 PM »
I got to chime in here...

Two guys completed the rigorous Guidelines to the fullest. (Dick Parker & Cooper Arnold)

Both will be compensated above their expectations...cause that's how I roll.

Just waiting for the final ok-dokey gents!
For a good time: Lat- 3925'8.92"N, Long- 9433'18.52"W

hyzerponix

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #185 on: May 13, 2010, 08:50:28 PM »
Even if they don't get "paid" for this project, if the course turns out the way we all hope it will this will be a great item for both their resumes. That can go a long way.

Kevin Simpson

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #186 on: May 13, 2010, 11:03:10 PM »
Jack, I'm not sure where all that latent bitterness just spewed forth from, but as Dan has said several times now, the designers ARE going to be paid. Money. Does it suck that you've never been paid to design anything? I guess. But that doesn't have anything to do with the current situation, in which compensation was stipulated and will be made.

I guess that whole rant was just to say, yes we should sacrifice for the sport, but no, that doesn't mean no one can be paid for professional work.

twoDornottwoD

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #187 on: May 13, 2010, 11:20:31 PM »
He didnt sound bitter to me.  Sounded more like he was suggesting Cooper and Dick should be counting their blessings if/when they are compensated.  While I dont doubt that Dan has plans to compensate them well for their hard work, this is neither a trend setting move or the norm.   And, it wont be for a while, especially in this economy.  I'm sure that the rewards and good karma for all their hard work have already paid more dividends to these four guys (Cooper, Dan, Dick, and Jack) than any monetary value they shall receive.  The love for the sport/game/outdoors/community is why they do it.  Believe me, there are a lot easier ways to make money than trying to make it off of disc golf, whether it be competition, sales, or course design.  Keep up the good work guys.  Though the days may come when it seems that way, your hard work does not go unnoticed.  :)
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 11:22:04 PM by twoDornottwoD »
Drew D Neitzel

Kevin Simpson

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #188 on: May 14, 2010, 07:32:17 AM »
Ugh. Making me sound like a stone-hearted capitalist.  :) I know they aren't in it for the money. I was just annoyed at how dogmatic Jack was about this specific situation. Dan may be acting out of the norm, but he spelled out what would happen, and it's happening.

I dispute your claim that it can't be trend-setting. Why shouldn't a parks department consider the design fee a cost along with baskets and pads?

Schoen-hopper

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #189 on: May 14, 2010, 08:22:44 AM »
Why shouldn't they indeed.  But in some places of the world those parks that "allow" disc golf into the parks will not pay a dime for equipment or anything else.  Fundraising is left up to a local club.  It's good to see this is changing.

Kevin Montgomery

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #190 on: May 14, 2010, 08:24:01 AM »
Kevin Montgomery
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phisherman_77

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #191 on: May 14, 2010, 09:19:47 AM »
Ugh. Making me sound like a stone-hearted capitalist.  :) I know they aren't in it for the money. I was just annoyed at how dogmatic Jack was about this specific situation. Dan may be acting out of the norm, but he spelled out what would happen, and it's happening.

I dispute your claim that it can't be trend-setting. Why shouldn't a parks department consider the design fee a cost along with baskets and pads?

you should just stop posting kevin.  you're far too articulate and logical for this forum buddy.  ;D

GOT D??? do u

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #192 on: May 14, 2010, 10:08:02 AM »
I dont think the KC PARKS DEPARTMENT could AFFORD to pay you Jack for all the YEARS u have invested at CLIFF DRIVE with all the changes that have been made before the FINAL LAYOUT was SET & pads poured...

I have heard GREAT things about CLIFF DRIVE since it has been FINALIZED...  ;D  still havent made it out there yet though, hard to make it that far NORTH when i get to play but with summer approaching it will get played soon  ;D

jack

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #193 on: May 14, 2010, 10:32:44 AM »
Ugh. Making me sound like a stone-hearted capitalist.  :) I know they aren't in it for the money. I was just annoyed at how dogmatic Jack was about this specific situation. Dan may be acting out of the norm, but he spelled out what would happen, and it's happening.

I dispute your claim that it can't be trend-setting. Why shouldn't a parks department consider the design fee a cost along with baskets and pads?


Not true though, what happens if the city decides that they don't want the course, then who will pay these guys for the work?

I am not bitter in anyway if I were, I would have stopped doing this a long time ago.  The bottom line though is that nothing is certain in any world, but it does not mean that it will never happen.

A great case in point is Lees Summit, we had meetings with them in 1999 to do design work and create a course gave them outlines, plans etc, with proposals to get paid to do the work and ensure a success, yet it didn't happen, fast forward to 2006 and then they have an idea for a course, with their own design, and feel confident that it will work.....only it didn't, and the location changed, and other issues arose....

I am just saying that there is not any way possible to guarantee that they will be compensated unless Dan agrees to pay them directly.

At this point, there is not a check in hand with regards to the course to pay anyone, and until such time, good meanings and all, there is no money so its a work of love.

You also need to realize that while I may do most of my work for the love of the sport, its because of that love that we have many new courses in the area.

Not only do I design courses and build up the sport, but I also have given more presentations to people about disc golf in the local area than anyone else has over the last decade.  So do you pay professional presenters in our sport as well to deliver our message? ;D  Without my ability to get in front of many different groups and people this passion would not have been relayed, and the word of mouth that happens within all politics would not be there.  This is a direct reflection even in Smithville, where I know that I met with a group of dedicated business leaders in 2003 and talked with them about it as a guest speaker in a breakfast meeting, this also lead to the course in Parkville.....

I am not complaining about anything, I am trying to put a true reality spin on a project that has not been funded, has not been approved, and has not started......I wonder how many people in our forum are truly aware of how many disc golf projects are sitting in their city's files that are not being moved for one reason or another.....I can count in my head initially of 9 within a 30 mile radius of downtown.....

I try to not talk about things that may come to happen in our discussion groups, I try to talk about what is a reality and happening now.

This project appears to be moving forward and that is great, love the enthusiasm, love the energy, but the realist in me knows that if they approve one course you should count your blessings and lets start with that before you put the horse in front of the cart.....
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Jack Lowe-
Parks Development Director for KCFDC
Multiple PDGA Worlds TD
Course Designs
913.485.5123-C
"Disc Golf-
Like ball golf, only faster,
cheaper, and healthier!"

twoDornottwoD

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Re: Call for Disc Golf Course Designers
« Reply #194 on: May 14, 2010, 11:03:00 AM »
I dispute your claim that it can't be trend-setting. Why shouldn't a parks department consider the design fee a cost along with baskets and pads?

I didnt say it cant.  I said it wont be for a while.  Parks depts should include a design fee in the budget and a lot of times they do.  Unfortunately, extra costs sometimes come up and the designer fees seem to go by the wayside to stay within the budget.  Same thing happens to TD's of PDGA events getting paid.  Cooper and Dick should feel very gracious that Dan is trying to make sure that their getting paid is a staple in the budget.
Drew D Neitzel