Author Topic: sanctioned or not?  (Read 2254 times)

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Tom

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sanctioned or not?
« on: January 18, 2006, 08:51:10 AM »
Would you rather play PDGA sanctioned tourneys, or non-PDGA tourneys?

Kevin Montgomery

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To Sanction or Not to Sanction? - That is the Question
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2006, 10:48:34 AM »
Following is a thread started under the WyCo topic. I thought it might be good to put this under a more general topic and get some more discussion going. If you haven't seen this thread yet read through it and let's continue this discussion. I think Superq and Jack have both made some valid points but the future of the sport is addressed more clearly by Q in the last quote.

Quote from: "Tom"
Hey Kevin,
Is the Kan-U-Wyco going to be PDGA sanctioned? If not, can it be? I think you would have time to do it, if you act soon.
Tom


Quote from: "Nivek9"
Hadn't really given it much thought. I guess it could be a C or D tier event. I just have to get the paperwork in 30 days in advance I think. I'll look into it.


Quote from: "Tom"
I would venture to guess the turnout might be a little better if it was sanctioned.


Quote from: "jack"
The PDGA fees that are involved with sanctioning is why I am choosing not to run any PDGA events this year for the events that I am running.  Tom if you can convince me that it is worth the money that the PDGA gets to garner at least 15-20 people per event I would listen, but overall I feel that turnout last year at events was less because of the associated costs with PDGA, either paying the additional fee if you are not a member, or the fees that we send to the PDGA for the event charge, and then the additional fee that we must charge players for the PDGA on each player.  It costs $2/person that we must send, and then an additional $5 for non-members.

So in essence, when I try to have an event where the entry is $20 for am's, it then becomes $27 for the $20 entry.  It just doesn't make sense, when we want to drive competitive play into the area, and we are pricing ourselves out of the market.  The same can be said for the Open side, where the fees are also attached, so that an Open player paying $47 only sees $40 in the payout, still a loss on each entrant by ~20%.

I so far have been thinking that all events this year will not be PDGA with the exception of the Wide Open.  This would allow us to make things easier for the casual player, and the TD running the event to not have to look up all the information on each person.

May need to move this to Tournaments forum, but wanted to chime in.  Kevin feel free to move this post.

Thanks,

Jack

Quote from: "Tom"
Jack,
 I agree that the additional fees suck. I would suggest though that if our goal is to make tournaments less expensive and "easier for the casual player", then we will be hosting tournaments, for the most part, for our local disc golfers only.  I don't think very many out of towners are going to be traveling to KC to play in non-sanctioned events. Any local players that want to earn points and ratings, and advance their game, can simply go out of town to play sanctioned tournaments.
 I don't run any tournaments, so I suppose I should keep my opinions on this matter to myself.
peace


Quote from: "tjringer"
No need to keep your opinions to yourself Tom because I agree with both you and Jack compeltely.  The majority of locals that play these events aren't competing in the PDGA and the extra costs garnered by any association with the PDGA is not worth it.  I think that locally pandering to the masses and pumping the events up on a local level is the thing to do.  Promote the club and it's associations, not the PDGA.


Quote from: "superq"
This is a very interesting line of conversation,  I traveled from topeka to KC for two events one sanctioned (city of fountains) and one not (kan u wyco)  I may be in the minority here but I will not be traveling out of town for any non sanctioned events this year except for maybe Herrington.  

There has been a general trend in tournaments around the country to have lower turnouts, and I think a large part of that is oversaturation.  If you want people to travel to an event there needs to be some kind of hook.  Great courses are becoming dime a dozen. the only reason I played city of fountains last year was to check out the two new courses, I wont be back if it is not sanctioned.  My opinion on the matter is casual play is fun, league is fun, tournaments are to show you where you are at.  The PDGA tracks scoring player ratings points, and payouts, it is a great resource when you are looking for an event to play in.  Kansas city has a history of supporting the PDGA and offering sanctioned events on world class courses, The extra money is going to a good cause, and if a player doesnt want to pay it then they dont have to play the event.  2bucks extra for the player to earn points and ranking is no big deal, and 5 for non members is just a good tax on people that need to join anyway.  

My opinion overall is that if clubs start going away from the PDGA growing the sport into anything more than a drinking club is going to take giant leaps backwards, every sport has a governing body, lets not seperate from ours.

Now that I have read all of this again I am going to try to make sure that all the events in Topeka are sanctioned at some level this year.

Good luck, and I look forward to playing more PDGA events in KC this year.
Kevin Montgomery
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blind man

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sanctioned or not?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2006, 02:19:42 PM »
in my humble opinion, not supporting the PDGA is absurd. If cutting the cost of small local tournaments is really the goal attack the first 25 dollars paid of any tournament, not the additional 2 or 5 dollars. Why not treat the am payouts of local tournaments exactly like other sports treat am payouts for there events. A simple 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place trophy, you could save 150 to 250 dollars on each event. No disc no t-shirts and no trinkets. Use the money you save for additional payouts to the pros and to the club. If an am doesn't like it go pro! Growth in any sport always has a direct relationship with the highest quality of play. Make being a pro more rewarding.

jack

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sanctioned or not?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2006, 02:24:15 PM »
The PDGA mandates a certain payout level even at the am entry, so we are held to that level.  I for one am a pretty strong advocate of the PDGA, but there are a few things I don't like.  I'll keep some of those to myself, because overall I do enjoy what the events bring to the table, and I do travel to events, but only PDGA events typically.  

I will bring this up as most events would be "C" tier statuys and require little lead time.  The poll is also moving that direction, and if that is what people want, hey then lets give it to them
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superq

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sanctioned or not?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2006, 01:13:03 PM »
I do strongly believe that PDGA sanctioning makes a difference.  Even if the KC events are D tier I would be more inclined to drive out for that, It helps the player ranking, it makes the event a little more legitimate (for those that observe the rules in the first place) Overall I think it lends a little more weight to an event,

Having said that, there are still events that I will attend knowing they will most likely not be sanctioned.  There are courses and events that just need to be played , sanctioned or no. :D

Blue valley comes to mind on that list ( :twisted: still wont play it alone)

tjringer

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19 person poll.. ahahaha
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2006, 09:12:44 PM »
Quote from: "jack"
The poll is also moving that direction, and if that is what people want, hey then lets give it to them


I hardly think a 19 person poll is any sort of indication...

tjringer

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PDGA Associations..
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2006, 09:25:55 PM »
Supporting the PDGA is fine and probably the right thing to do for the sport, the Club and it's members that float about in the upper eschelons of it's more competitive nature.  You have the big events, like the Wide Open, that draw the out of towners, offer the PDGA points, etc., etc. But there should be an equal if not greater amount of local events not garnered towards the PDGA in an attempt to get the local traffic  informed and into the parks.  These are the people that validate the courses and park usage on a daily basis.

Kansas City has such a large volume of disc golfers that are completely casual.  Luring these people into locals events and increasing knowledge and participation by the locals should be the priority.  Not pandering to out of towners and PDGA events.  I'm not saying that these large events should not happen.  I just don't think that they should be the main focus.  A few spectacular events with a whole host of local events is the way to go.

Remember, the vast majority of disc golfers do not compete seriously at the PDGA level.

Tom

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sanctioned or not?
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2006, 01:09:01 PM »
We have local events every night of the week during the summer season, which is awesome. Why have non-PDGA tournaments on the weekends just to play against the same bunch of players that you play against all week in leagues?

eupher61

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« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2006, 05:45:12 PM »
A few sanctioned  tournaments a year, YES...but why not monthly, or semi-monthly, local tournaments just for the fun of it?  It doesn't have to be anything big, purse based on the entry fees or prizes that are donated.

Things like more frequent tournament play add points on the PDGA evaluations too.  And, maybe it will lead to more workers on work days, more PR in general.  

It don't gotta be a national tour thing...
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tjringer

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League.. local events..
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2006, 07:33:46 PM »
Yes we do have league play every night of the week but alas, league hardly qualifies as tournament play.  Plus, I'm speaking of new local golfers.  If you or I were to spend a day at say Rosedale, we'd know only a fraction of the local golfers that meander across the park in the course of a day.  People that haven't ever tried a league or a tournament.

Tom

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sanctioned or not?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2006, 07:53:41 AM »
I agree there are a lot of players and new players out there that might want to play some local, non-sanctioned tourneys where you don't get kicked out for drinking beer and partying during the round. It's too bad though that most of the top rated players in the area won't be at these "local" tourneys to demonstrate quality, competitive golf as they will be out of town on weekends attending sanctioned events in other citys.

My vote would be for 3 to 5 sanctioned events in KC between March and October and maybe 1 or 2 non-sanctioned events. Perhaps if I ever stop playing long enough I'll try to run a tourney to help with these numbers, but I'm having too much fun just showing up and playing right now. I would like to say a big THANK YOU to all the TD's and voluteers around our great DG metro.    

Let's just agree to disagree on this. Different strokes for different folks. We all support and contribute to the game in our own way.

55-60 degrees this afternoon! Let's play!

peace

Mike Penney

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sanctioned or not?
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2006, 12:14:51 PM »
You nailed it on the head Tom, there aren't enough people helping. If there were maybe having more sanctioned events would make sense, but as it stands now we are struggling to get what gets done, done.
Mike Penney