2011 League on Wednesdays!

[twoDornottwoD]

From what I understood, that was the original intention when having a Pro2;  no Masters division and no Am division.   The leagues that are doing Pro2 and one or both of the others is, in my opinion, messing up things.

The intention was to have any combination of divisions available to the LDs so they could have some control to get league attendance up.  one area of town may have different demographics attending that particular league than another might.  it doesn't make sense to force every league to have the same divisions.  attendance is the bottom line.  we want this sport to GROW.  i don't think a group of volunteers trying some different divisions and then asking participants how they like the format is "messing up things".  hopefully the LDs are listening to their participants and occasionally adjusting their divisions as to what the demographics demand.  sorry jack, i know, wrong forum.

[Fish]

I'll offer my opinion as an Am...  

I rarely play well enough to be able to compete with the better Pro/Open players.  Having the lower division, despite what you call it, allows players like me to still enjoy the experience of competing in league while having a chance to get a little something in return on a few occasions.  Even if it is just a few bucks of KC Cash.  If we're all thrown into one division, players like myself are almost guaranteed never to get any monetary return, fake money or otherwise.  I understand that the natural response would be "Well... get better so you can compete."  But if I can be thrown a bone once in a while along the way, by means of KC Cash, I'll have much more motivation to continue to participate.  I see the lower division as a stepping stone to the upper division.  A way to learn how to win, while bettering my game at the same time.  That's a good feeling.  If the lower league were not there, weekly league for me becomes a $5 butt kicking.  It might sound silly, but that chance at KC Cash brings me back.  If it were 1 division with little chance for me to ever see any return throughout the year, I don't know if I'd bother with league.  

[Kevin Montgomery]

The previous post by Fish reminds me that a few years back we actually had a place on the league sign up sheet for an intermediate division. That division disappeared even though it used to get a lot of people periodically depending on the league and attendance. To me this is another example of variety of divisions being desirable, to a point. I also think more complete newbies might participate if a lower division such as this was offered, or as things appear to be heading, were allowed to be offered if the demand presented itself. I think the ability to be flexible when necessary and league directors with the experience and willingness to be flexible is a good thing.

[dickthediscparker]

I agree but we had offered plenty of division before.   There are just a few ams who want to play for money and I seriously think they need to step up to pro if that is the case.  Or get older and play an age protected division.  Whatever age that is.   We are killing our am division.   And when newer people come in and all they have to choose from is Pro1 and Pro2 they are going to leave.   

[jamidanger]

.....or stop playing for cash based on score, leave that to the sidebetters....charge $3.00, buck to the club, buck to the ace pool, and a buck to a ctp that takes place after ALL the cards are in, maybe a 100 footer, pay 2 spots if more than 30 show. us pros will make our dough at tournaments or on the side, remember when you could be too good for league play?

[five2loves42]

I agree but we had offered plenty of division before.   There are just a few ams who want to play for money and I seriously think they need to step up to pro if that is the case.  Or get older and play an age protected division.  Whatever age that is.   We are killing our am division.   And when newer people come in and all they have to choose from is Pro1 and Pro2 they are going to leave.   

Agreed!! AMs will leave if they don't feel they have any chance at cashing (real OR KCCash).

[Anthony Puryear]

I guess my view is that I play Pro 2 because, on my best night, I would still have a hard time getting to the top of Pro 1. But I also had reached a point last year where I was consistently towards the top of Ams. Which I don't think is fair to the Ams for someone to keep playing am and winning. But I also don't think its fair to be pushed into a division that costs more that I don't have much chance at ever cashing. So Pro 2 is where I belong.

[Jake B]

hmmm... sandbag or donate...

Everyone else is giving their money to Arturo, join the fun!!

proii = WHiners

[Ash]

Pro2 == Bane of KCFDC leagues.

How so? Is having no am division not profitable enough for the club? Or not profitable enough for the few that dominate the open field? My guess is both.

Also I meant to reply to this.   No the club isn't trying to be profitable it is trying to stay a float.   Sorry you have not shown up to any board meetings to see that we are constantly spending money on Insurance and storage and many other things that help keep us a float.  You take that away there will no longer be a club to support disc golf locally.   But you can just keep thinking we are trying to take all your money.   We will just keep supporting our local disc golf scene.

Obviously you missed the point of my post. My point wasn't that the club shouldn't be making the necessary funds off of the leagues, I get that. However I do have a problem with it being a problem that KC Kash isn't getting paid out, because obviously that is where the club makes the majority of the funds from leagues. Why should one group of league players get screwed and be forced to buy plastic at DGW?

There are just a few ams who want to play for money and I seriously think they need to step up to pro if that is the case.  Or get older and play an age protected division.  

You also could have said, cut your junk off and play in the womens division, it would have been just as reasonable.

[twoDornottwoD]

You also could have said, cut your junk off and play in the womens division, it would have been just as reasonable.

Agreed.  Age has nothing to do with this argument.  And, I believe there are more than a few that are caught in nowhere land in this town.  I still contend pro2 was a good division for these players and in turn will increase league attendance.  Personally, running a league with traditionally smaller turnout, I have really enjoyed having the options available and I think participants have too.

[dickthediscparker]

Pro2 == Bane of KCFDC leagues.

How so? Is having no am division not profitable enough for the club? Or not profitable enough for the few that dominate the open field? My guess is both.

Also I meant to reply to this.   No the club isn't trying to be profitable it is trying to stay a float.   Sorry you have not shown up to any board meetings to see that we are constantly spending money on Insurance and storage and many other things that help keep us a float.  You take that away there will no longer be a club to support disc golf locally.   But you can just keep thinking we are trying to take all your money.   We will just keep supporting our local disc golf scene.

Obviously you missed the point of my post. My point wasn't that the club shouldn't be making the necessary funds off of the leagues, I get that. However I do have a problem with it being a problem that KC Kash isn't getting paid out, because obviously that is where the club makes the majority of the funds from leagues. Why should one group of league players get screwed and be forced to buy plastic at DGW?

There are just a few ams who want to play for money and I seriously think they need to step up to pro if that is the case.  Or get older and play an age protected division.  

You also could have said, cut your junk off and play in the womens division, it would have been just as reasonable.

Unfortunately you are reading what you want to read.  The problem Ash is that we are killing the AM divisions.  There is no growth in Pro whatever you call it divisions.  Maybe in the local scene of people who play leagues (who will play regardless) this is important if we want to bring new people in.  You can not sit here and tell me that You would have ever played league if I offered two Pro divisions and no Ams. 

Also if you don't like the fact a few extra pennies are made off of Ams then you probably should not play in any more tournaments.   It is even worse there.   

[Ash]

Unfortunately you are reading what you want to read.  The problem Ash is that we are killing the AM divisions.  There is no growth in Pro whatever you call it divisions.  Maybe in the local scene of people who play leagues (who will play regardless) this is important if we want to bring new people in.  You can not sit here and tell me that You would have ever played league if I offered two Pro divisions and no Ams.  

I'm not arguing that Pro2 should replace the Am division. I absolutely believe there should be an Am division if people want to play it. I haven't been to many leagues yet this season but it seems like it is either Am or Pro2, I do see the problem with this. However in my current situation the Pro2 thing is the best fit. I would rather play in Pro2 with 3 people than to play in Am with 6 people. Which would be better for the people who actually want to play Am, because they will have a better chance getting something back than they would playing with those of us who want to play Pro2.

Also if you don't like the fact a few extra pennies are made off of Ams then you probably should not play in any more tournaments.   It is even worse there.   

This one of the big reasons I don't really play in many tourneys, feels like I'm getting screwed every time. It's not as big of a deal when it comes to leagues and supporting the club. However to me, it feels like everyone should pay their fair share.

[dickthediscparker]

Also if you don't like the fact a few extra pennies are made off of Ams then you probably should not play in any more tournaments.   It is even worse there.   

This one of the big reasons I don't really play in many tourneys, feels like I'm getting screwed every time. It's not as big of a deal when it comes to leagues and supporting the club. However to me, it feels like everyone should pay their fair share.
[/quote]

Amateur is not about winning.  It is about the love of the game.  If you don't feel that is the point then you need to move to open where it is about winning.

[Neckbeard]

Amateur is not about winning.  It is about the love of the game.  If you don't feel that is the point then you need to move to open where it is about winning.

It's ALWAYS about winning, guys.  I think you two should stop bickering and both play amateur.  Especially you, Dick.

[dickthediscparker]

I know right?