Author Topic: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th  (Read 1821 times)

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Loomis

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Re: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2011, 04:46:04 PM »
It was great to see you guys there.

otter

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Re: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2011, 04:47:05 PM »
AMEN & an AAAUUUUUHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMM...!!!!!!!  8) :o ;D 8)

I like MORE wind personally, but that's no excuse for my poor play.

GREAT tourney, well run, challenging courses...REALLY hard to beat in my book for a fun-filled weekend of great times with quality folks!  Play it once in your life...at least!!  A gem out West is there every year -> the weekend after Labor Day...did I mention EVERY year!!!!
Enshrine hallucinations...PULL!!

smitty

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Re: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2011, 04:03:00 PM »
Any of you who played the Frontier Open. I would like to get some feedback from you.

Did you like the split? Or would you have rather rolled with it the old way, and play 3 X 24?

Were there any holes that you would have changed up or played different?

Thanks

Smitty

tallguy007kc

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Re: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2011, 04:18:00 PM »
Any of you who played the Frontier Open. I would like to get some feedback from you.

Did you like the split? Or would you have rather rolled with it the old way, and play 3 X 24?

Were there any holes that you would have changed up or played different?

Thanks

Smitty

I can't really compare the two different setups, as this was my first Frontier.  I will say, that I thought the 2 18's on Sat., and the 24 on Sunday was plenty.  Granted I played most of the 24 for Sunday with Ron and others on Sat., but with that said, I liked it in the sense that if you wanted to see at least a chunk of the hole setups for Sunday, you had time.

I will say that the setups for the two rounds on Sat. were heavy duty on the "lefty" side.  If there was a way to even out the hole setups to not really benefit lefty's or righty's, that would be my main thing, and sweet to boot.  Sundays setup was really cool overall, and have no complaints whatsoever there.  Otherwise, I thought it was a great time, and thanks to everyone that put in the work this year!  giggity.....
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BamBam

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Re: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2011, 05:35:50 PM »
Well, It was a pretty epic meltdown for me on Sunday but would like to thank Smitty and the DD crew for another great time in Hays.

I'm on the fence as far as the layout goes and was holding judgement 'till I thought about it a bit. One of the things which makes the course so fantastic is the staggering variety it has in it's typical format. Also, it helps to "know" the holes. Of course, plenty of variety is still there and was used.

I guess overall if it comes down to accommodating more players I'm Ok with the two course layout but in my opinion a few of the added holes were a bit lackluster. A few of the others seemed to me to have been difficult for difficulty's sake though I'm sure that wasn't the intent. The added holes on the west course were good and I think fit the course well. The point is that if nothing changed I would be happy to play Hays every year you would have me. But having said that I think I would prefer the original format.

After thinking about it, here are some general suggestions.

1. Hole 5 on the east course is obviously a tough design with a ballgame going on. No doubt just an oversite.
2. Hole 6. I'm sure the designers liked this one but in my opinion it was long for the sake of being long. I think it would play well moving the target up, giving the longer guys a chance at the two but still bringing bogey into play by going for it--either from the courts or OB over the dike. Oh, and I would move the target closer to the OB, like hole 8. Also it wouldn't necessarily be a gimme three for lower divisions.
3. 11? The long righty. Just my opinion, it looks like some real thought went into it, but I didn't like it. I'm sure it produced a real variety of scores but I'm wondering how big a variety. But bet it was a bunch. Seems to me it could be moved up and tucked right , giving a reasonable chance at the two with a great drive but also still with peril right and serious approach trouble left.
4. 15. Obviously simply open and relativity long with wind in play. Is there no way to play through the trees after 14? Maybe you were trying to eliminate a walk?
5. I prefer the Sunday hole 8 around to the right past the trees. Still tough with a good spread of scores and a bit less interference with 9.
6. In genearl the speed of play thing can be tough on Sunday. I'm not against longer holes at all and overall the Sunday setup is great, I would just suggest thinking about some of those longer holes and flow of play.

It's a great time at Hays and everybody who helps with it seems dedicated to make it that way. My opinions are just that: mine, so I hope no one takes it personally and I'm already looking forward to the 2012 Frontier Open!
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 05:39:47 PM by BamBam »

smitty

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Re: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2011, 08:37:18 PM »

I will say that the setups for the two rounds on Sat. were heavy duty on the "lefty" side.  If there was a way to even out the hole setups to not really benefit lefty's or righty's, that would be my main thing, and sweet to boot. 

I don't see the overall "lefty" thing. I would say there were more lefty friendly holes then most courses.

On my spreadsheet, I marked the holes lefty, righty or neutral.

Here is what I came up with.
East
Lefty- 4 (Holes 7, 10, 13, 16)
Right- 6 (2, 9, 12, 15 (because of second shot), 17, 18)
Neutral- 8
***That is calling the tennis court hole neutral. Lefty drive followed by a right handed second shot.


West
Lefty- 2 (1(a) and 9(hole by steps))
Righty- 5 (2(b), 3(c),5, 7, 16(under bridge to hill)
Neutral- 11

What holes do we disagree on?

Thanks for the feedback. Let me know what holes you were looking at as lefty that I didn't.


Thanks


smitty

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Re: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2011, 08:58:29 PM »
1. Hole 5 on the east course is obviously a tough design with a ballgame going on. No doubt just an oversite.
2. Hole 6. I'm sure the designers liked this one but in my opinion it was long for the sake of being long. I think it would play well moving the target up, giving the longer guys a chance at the two but still bringing bogey into play by going for it--either from the courts or OB over the dike. Oh, and I would move the target closer to the OB, like hole 8. Also it wouldn't necessarily be a gimme three for lower divisions.
3. 11? The long righty. Just my opinion, it looks like some real thought went into it, but I didn't like it. I'm sure it produced a real variety of scores but I'm wondering how big a variety. But bet it was a bunch. Seems to me it could be moved up and tucked right , giving a reasonable chance at the two with a great drive but also still with peril right and serious approach trouble left.
4. 15. Obviously simply open and relativity long with wind in play. Is there no way to play through the trees after 14? Maybe you were trying to eliminate a walk?
5. I prefer the Sunday hole 8 around to the right past the trees. Still tough with a good spread of scores and a bit less interference with 9.
6. In genearl the speed of play thing can be tough on Sunday. I'm not against longer holes at all and overall the Sunday setup is great, I would just suggest thinking about some of those longer holes and flow of play.


OK, here we go. The designer was me, so don't worry about offending me. I like the feedback and always try to take it into consideration. My replies will be what I was thinking as I designed the hole.

Hole 5- WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!!! I figured college baseball was in the spring. We will reserve the other park and play the hole we didn't instead. It was a much better hole.

Hole 6- I figured most players were going to be forced to lay-up. The longer throwers were going to have the over the court option. I think if the tee was back another 40 feet, bombers may think twice. I wanted to give the lefty hyzer the best shot off the tee, which it was (I went roller). Then have the right hyzer be the shot towards the pin. I also didn't want it to be a drive putt hole. We have enough of those in disc golf. I actually loved this hole and had the following scores on my card. (Ring 3 flick+ backhand, Smitty 4 Roller + flick because of fence + 40 foot putt (near OB parking lot)+ Drop in, Pete 5 Hyzer ofer court OB + hyzer + 40 footer + drop in. Nate Martin 5 Roller, hyzer from same spot as me short arm OB, 150 foot hyzer, 25 foot putt.

Hole 11- Wanted another 2 shot hole. All it took was 250 straight 200 straight and you were on the pin. Many people told me it was their favorite hole on the course. I liked the way it played and I had a 3, 4, 4, and 5 on my card. I do wish the trees were higher on the second shot.

Hole 15B- Actually wasn't going to be a hole. It replaced the hole we didn't get to play. It was just a linker that did break up what would have been a horrible walk. I actually think it will stay as a hole. I have played much worse holes for sure, they cannot all be spectacular.

I agree with you 100% on hole 8. I would have much rather played it around the bend. The locals seem to love that hole and since it was the monster course it was given to them as a compromise.

I also agree with you about tees on Sunday and flow/speed of play. That has always been a problem in Hays. The things I didn't care for.

Hole 1's tee and 3's basket.
8's basket and 9's tee.
9's basket and 10's tee.
10's basket and 9's basket were to close together.
12's tee was probably getting hyzers dropped on their head all day.
15's basket and 16's drop zone/ walk zone
16's basket and 17's tee
18's tee and 17's drive

Trying to play all the original holes was one thing that drove hole choice this year. We played all of them except for 18. The monster course was will always be a flow problem (typical to the Hays course) if it remains the monster course meaning long. I was actually referring to it as that because of 24 holes.

Thanks for the feedback.


Loomis

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Re: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2011, 09:25:11 AM »
Smitty, you did a great job of splitting up the course and creating the new holes. However, that being said, I do prefer the old 3 of 24 layout more. I see the logic in the 2 of 18, but even with the addition of the great new holes on the East course (the island hole and the one before it) I miss the "shots" on the old layout that were left out this year. It's a small change that makes a big difference. I think the element of "revenge" on a hole is something many players look forward to, especially when the hole is particularly tough, OR relatively easy but botched when played in the past.

I think you could leave the tournament in the 2 of 18 setting, but make sure those 36 holes are the best 36 that the course can offer. There were just a few holes that didn't seem "Hays tough" but only a couple. (5 and 13 on the East, and the two short temps on the West before the "under-the-bridge" shot).

And congratulations on the win.


smitty

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Re: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2011, 12:00:09 PM »
I agree with the revenge factor for sure. You may be onto something with setting the holes that we are going to play twice, once on the East/West course and once on the Monster course and hitting them both rounds.

It would also make the job of moving baskets much easier.

5 was a weak hole, made even more weak by the fact that I had to move the tee up because of baseball.

13 the stepping stone hole is an original hole on the course. That is why it was played.


otter

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Re: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2011, 05:04:09 PM »
Ditto...I preferred the 'way it was' over the new.  Not saying that there weren't some challenging holes...cuz there were and some of them were VERY cool.  Playing 3 rounds=24 holes/round equaling 72 holes really made it feel like I got my money's worth...yomsain?!?  8)

In the past years that I played ('05, '09, '10), I had thought, that with the exception of the temp holes, that no hole was ever played the same in ANY of the 3 rounds...am I correct in stating this?!?!?  As I recall, we were given a different tee or pin placement to thoroughly mix it up every round.  This was/is one of the coolest things about the Frontier Open...other than the FACT that Hays has a TRUE GEM of a course in Frontier Park. 

DD & Smitty, you all did a great job of enabling the tournament to allow more players to participate...bravo!  I/we always have a wonderful time playing the Frontier Open, mixing it up with the cool folks...and dining at Gella's/Lb.'s. 


This is a CAN'T MISS tourney...so if you're reading this............make it to HAYS just once...or your life may not be complete...!  :-X
Enshrine hallucinations...PULL!!

Loomis

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Re: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2011, 06:44:57 PM »
Okay, not 13.. the one after it. the that shots to the road.

smitty

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Re: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2011, 01:55:27 PM »
Otter- You are correct, you have never played the same hole twice in Hays.

Loomis- You are correct, that wasn't the toughest hole either. I really thought we would tee off farther back and the pin would be farther up the slope.

I wish I lived closer to Hays, so I could give it the time and effort it deserves.


I wonder how the two of you would feel if we would have had 130-140 people at the event. That is really what I was expecting to have.




otter

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Re: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2011, 04:39:45 PM »
Smitty, lets make an effort to exchange 40s at X~Mas this year!!  ;D
Enshrine hallucinations...PULL!!

BamBam

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Re: 27th Frontier Open September 10th and 11th
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2011, 10:25:29 AM »


I wonder how the two of you would feel if we would have had 130-140 people at the event. That is really what I was expecting to have.

Yeah man...I'd have no problem playing those courses twice even in exchange for those numbers.