30th KCWO Think Tank

[john theiss]

It is time to get folks thinking and generating ideas for the monumental 30th Anniversary of the KCWO.  We wanted to start a thread where folks can share any ideas that they have.  This is our event KC and we want your ideas.  There is great history that surrounds this event due to Kansas Citians working so hard and giving so much of their time to make it memorable.  How can we all make it better?  Please give us your ideas.
-pros and cons of last year
-what you would like to see this year?
-what will it take for you to play?
-where would you like to volunteer-course prep ideas, TDing, crowd control, artwork, etc
-what do you see and experience at other top-notch events and how can the KCFDC reproduce that?
-number of days for the event(depends on how it is sanctioned)
-which courses do want to see being used for the event?
-ideas for host hotels
-players party ideas, who wants to be part of a social chair and plan out drink specials at local taverns?
-trophy only for AMs?  pros and cons of going that route.  How would you like for it to be set up
-do you have an ounce of artistic talent?  Start generating ideas for an image that could become iconic and part of disc golf history.

It is time to start creating buzz for this event and make it "THE EVENT"  that folks all over the US want to be involved with. 

[ajinks]

As an out-of-towner (Joplin), the trophy only for Advanced kept me from playing in the 29th WO all-together.  I was skeptical I would get my moneys worth out of the players pack because of the 28th Wide Open, my first one ever, when I got an ABC putter as the disc and a heavy-weight dri-fit (both unusable items).  I did play in Worlds the year before though and I do understand the time and money contrstaints the 28th WO fell under the year after Worlds.  I'm not dogging anything, I'm just presenting the out-of-towner view as a 935ish rated Advanced player who would drop almost anything if there was a chance to go play several KC courses. 

So for me to play, Advanced needs to have a nice payout and a non-crappy players pack.  (We do both in Joplin for our annual event, so I know taking care of the Pros AND Am's can be done.)

[Cooper]

1. Pro and Am weekend- Keeps the volunteer pools full for both events and reduces time-strain and other factors. Plus, it lets the Ams play the best courses too (and reduces how much work needs to be done on the courses as a whole). I would vote for a 3-day Pro weekend and a 2-day Am weekend.

2. BIGGER PAYOUT for Pros. As far as I understand it that has been the knock against the KCWO for a while. To get people to come to this event there needs to be a way to make travel money back and the way to do that is to beef up payout (obviously easier said than done, maybe a title sponsor?). Along with maintaining NT status this will keep the event as prestigious as it needs to be.

3. IF the Am side is trophy only, it needs to be cheaper. I don't want to play Am anymore but, if I were to, playing trophy only is fine, just as long as the buy-in isn't overwhelming. I also thought the players' pack this year was lacking. Yes, you got three discs, but only one disc that I actually like, and when you flood the market with Hurricanes it makes it impossible to trade or sell it to someone who actually uses that disc.

[phisherman_77]

2. BIGGER PAYOUT for Pros. As far as I understand it that has been the knock against the KCWO for a while. To get people to come to this event there needs to be a way to make travel money back and the way to do that is to beef up payout (obviously easier said than done, maybe a title sponsor?). Along with maintaining NT status this will keep the event as prestigious as it needs to be.

Haven't we typically paid a little deeper so that the payout is not so top heavy?

[Hanthrolo]

Get the Royals to sponsor, get Glass to give it up to some home-town goodness, Have local and top pros throw out of the park exhibition during , before or after a game, couple with a disc giveaway to the first umm 5000,....Stupid idea???  Id go to the game!!

[jack]

2. BIGGER PAYOUT for Pros. As far as I understand it that has been the knock against the KCWO for a while. To get people to come to this event there needs to be a way to make travel money back and the way to do that is to beef up payout (obviously easier said than done, maybe a title sponsor?). Along with maintaining NT status this will keep the event as prestigious as it needs to be.

I have NEVER heard that about KC, the only payout complaints have been on the AM side, where did you come up (hear, perception from others etc....curious) with this idea?

[gleauzinier]

gotta agree with jlowe, ever since the very first one where we had the highest payout of any tourney short of worlds, kcwo has almost always been in the top ten payouts. palmer's right the payout is usually deeper.
sounds like we need some ams to step up and make sure the sponsorship is there for the am player packet and am payout to meet their expectations. who's it gonna be?

[HaterAde]

All I know is the Tower Tavern party was awesome! Hope to see that go down next year as well!

[jack]

The notion of Trophy only is fast approaching the standard on the am side.  I see where there are concerns about the payout from a few, and the pricing.

So I will ask what would you rather see, less product, or less money (entry) for the am's?

TO me its completely silly that we gave away 3 discs, 2 shirts, a glass (still available at DGW) to every am plus got them into the ace fund, and paid the PDGA fee for $50.

How much cheaper can an A-Tier be?  Had trophies for every division at least 4 deep, and in Adv Men, had it for the top 5.

If you go cheaper on the entry, there will be nothing to give to the players.

More National events are going to be done this way.  I can GUARANTEE it, I talk with enough TD's out there to know this is the case, and almost all of the big events HATED the fact that we only charged $50, they all felt that this was too little.

Now on the counterside, if we do raise the AM fee to $75 (it will be more than $50 next year I can almost promise that) we will work on having even more cool items that you will be able to leave with.

So are you saying that you want Trophy only events to be $30 with no-frills to cover the cost of the trophies, and have a few CTP's during the event, cover the ace fund, cover the PDGA costs, is that the better option?

Let me know, cuz I can go Super Cheap, and really not be upset at all about it, then what it will mean though is that you will have to buy at retail prices any discs that you want as a momento of the event......still not giving out a "big payout" on the AM side.  That part of the event is probably done in the future of the Disc Golf in Major events unless you want to see a higher entry fee.

Now some sponsors will donate, and we will get that to the players, but many sponsors want to get paid for their items as well.....so some items will still happen, but not as good as you may think in years past, but in all honesty then all the players win, not just the top 35-40% of the field, which as an amateur sport is the way that it should be, and is in almost every other sport, with the exception of disc golf.

THese are my thoughts currently, but I know that I am not alone in the thinking of this type of program.

Keep the ideas coming, and please don't let my conversation prevent you from thinking that I am a Viagra-less used item on this, I am wanting to know what makes sense, and what your thoughts are, but I also want to make sure that you have realistic expectations when you start to look at tournaments in size and scope of an NT.

[eeastwood]

I know alot of ams didn't play in the KCWO because it was trophy only for the ams.   I was very disappointed in how many people showed up for the tournament on the am side.  More AMs showed up for the KCWO in 2010 as B tier vs. the 2011 A tier.  Personally, I liked the tournament better in 2010 than this year. 

If "the notion of Trophy only is fast approaching the standard on the am side", then I probably won't play many events.  And I don't think I'm alone.  These types of tournaments are going to draw fewer ams. The larger player's pack was okay, but I don't think it was enough to offset the difference especially since it was A tier had to shell out another $50 for the PDGA membership.  And looking back now, I don't think it was worth it.  Please eliminate the trophy only for KCWO 2012. 

Here's what I liked about the 29th KCWO vs. the 28th.  I liked that the Sunday was only one round so I could go watch the pros play.  I liked the courses chosen, but I would have liked to play Swope Gold.  For 30th KCWO, I would like to see Water works, Swope Gold, and Rosie.  I liked the "heavy-weight dri-fit" shirt from 2010.  It was better than the shirts I got in 2011 player's pack.  I also liked the player's party at Rosie in 2010 and would like to see something similar return, possibly on Friday night. 

[The Bird Father]

I agree that trophy only SUCKS, especially with the crappy player pack we got...thanks to DD for the cool shirt.

I wanted to play Open, but the cost was too great....seems like every year this sport get more exspensive to play, which is scaring a ton of people away.  Disc golf is a cheap hobby for most people and trying to get them to pay $100 w/ pdga for a AM trophy only event will kill the sport...or atelast the pdga.  I think there is a ton wrong with the pdga, but that is another subject.

Overall...reduce cost of entry, period.  Get sponsors and boost the purse.  I ran the ram'n'salmon and every single person that got paid was overwhelmed with their pay...pro and am alike....why?  Cuz I worked my azz of to get sponsors and then I only had to take a couple bucks outta each entry...the rest was payout.

How about a "Pro2" division for the pdga?  Cheaper, more
inviting and wide open for the notorious "KC Sandbaggers"!

The player party at tower was awesome...but that is also due to the "sexy chicken dance" on the bar!

[twoDornottwoD]

trophy only is the only way to go.  it solves the bagger problems.  i do like the local trend with dan howard and others doing trophy discs.  atleast the player has the option to throw it or hang it on the wall.

i agree that the pro's fee's have gotten way too high.  pdga fees excluded, $120 for a 3 round tournament is $40 a round and $12-$20/hr of competition.  these are nfl rates.  the big boys need to clean up their act and help with the sponsorship and quit living off the backs of their other competitors.  if they can't assist with this, they need to be prepared to get off the road and get a "normal" job and compete on the weekends.  pro tournament prices nearly doubled in the last 5-8 years while our country is in a recession.  disc golf is not a big enough sponsorship draw yet to support the number of "full-time" players we currently have.

my .02

[Rick Rothstein]

I think trophy only is a good idea, but it can be done differently. For instance, for packages, give out about half of the value with a cool commemorative item (a spectacular shirt or something unique like a stool or umbrella) and then give a voucher for the rest that would be redeemable at any sponsoring vendor. Then for those ams who feel that winning stuff is important offer an optional $25 prize pool. I think $50 (plus the fees that go to the PDGA) is a reasonable entry fee. Thus, those players who are content with trophy only would pay $50 and prize-seeking ams would  pay $75.

[Timko]

trophy only is the only way to go.  it solves the bagger problems.  i do like the local trend with dan howard and others doing trophy discs.  atleast the player has the option to throw it or hang it on the wall.

I actually thought the trophies from last year were spectacular.  While I like dyed discs, I think trophies need to actually look like trophies, not something you throw.

[eeastwood]

Explain to me why trophy only is the only way to go.  I think it sucks.  Because it's easier to run?  Maybe the pros should be play for trophys only.