Author Topic: 30th KCWO Think Tank  (Read 6386 times)

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Timko

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2011, 01:45:41 PM »
Why should Ams have to play for prizes?  Why can't they just play for a title?  I suppose some folks need to actually win something tangible, but I play tournaments to beat other people.  No one that plays Am is making a living off of playing that division, so if you're playing Am, you're doing it as a hobby to put your skills against the skills of others.  If you need some extra motivation to play well, make some 1 on 1 side bets with folks.

Also, I like the optional prize pool.  It lets people play for different reasons (prizes vs. competition).

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2011, 02:06:59 PM »
2. BIGGER PAYOUT for Pros. As far as I understand it that has been the knock against the KCWO for a while. To get people to come to this event there needs to be a way to make travel money back and the way to do that is to beef up payout (obviously easier said than done, maybe a title sponsor?). Along with maintaining NT status this will keep the event as prestigious as it needs to be.

I have NEVER heard that about KC, the only payout complaints have been on the AM side, where did you come up (hear, perception from others etc....curious) with this idea?

Not sure if I can put a finger on where I heard this. Like most of those amorphous perception things I'm sure it didn't have one source. I'm sure someone has the numbers though. What was the purse for the WO compared with the other NTs this year?

And, even if it is similar, isn't more money for payout one of the best ways to publicize the event? Isn't that why this year's worlds was billed as the first $100,000 worlds ever?


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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2011, 02:11:21 PM »
TO me its completely silly that we gave away 3 discs, 2 shirts, a glass (still available at DGW) to every am plus got them into the ace fund, and paid the PDGA fee for $50.


Didn't we have to pay for ace fund if we wanted in? I'm pretty sure that is the way it normally works.

And, how long have we had glasses at DGW? I guess that might have been a good thing to get the word out about a little better.

sirbronco

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2011, 02:19:11 PM »
TO me its completely silly that we gave away 3 discs, 2 shirts, a glass (still available at DGW) to every am plus got them into the ace fund, and paid the PDGA fee for $50.


Didn't we have to pay for ace fund if we wanted in? I'm pretty sure that is the way it normally works.

And, how long have we had glasses at DGW? I guess that might have been a good thing to get the word out about a little better.

The "Word" has been out since June.
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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2011, 02:33:58 PM »
Guess I missed it. Did we receive an email or something about this?

jamidanger

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2011, 02:44:59 PM »
ok, here's an idea:
 lower the entry fees for everyone, and have sponsorships for the following places -
     1st place mpo sponsored by ___________highest sponsor in dollars
     1st place fpo sponsored by ____________second highest sponsor
     1st place mpm sponsored by __________ third highest sponsor
     10th place mpg sponsored by__________barclays bank and courvosier and aristocrat motors
            etc, etc
that way everybody can play cheaper, and our sponsors get much more recognition
espouse elucidation

eeastwood

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2011, 03:04:29 PM »
Jack kept saying wait until you get your player's pack and you will see. "player's packs will be stocked with items that will make everyone glad that they came to the event."  Well I got it, and I frankly was underwhelmed.  I'm not sorry I played this year, but next if next year's event is the same way, then I likely won't.  It's about value for my money.  Looking forward (before the tournament) it seemed reasonable, after getting my hands on the player's pack, it didn't. 

I like some of Rick's ideas, that's a good compromise.   

To answer your questions Timko, why should Ams have to play for prizes?  Why can't they just play for a title?  You should offer prizes to Ams so that more players will come play in the tournament.  You can't argue that the number of participants was down in 2011 because it was a trophy only event.   

tallguy007kc

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2011, 03:53:42 PM »
When I was a youngin' you played for what was offered, and ya' liked it!....of course I was walking to school uphill, both ways, and it was 20 below year round......lol   ;D

I gotta say, I'm with Timko on this one.  Granted, winning some plastic, or other goodies is cool, but really, how much plastic is enough?  Even in the world of traditional (ball) golf, ever since I can remember, Am's played/play for trophies only, and were/are d@mn happy if they won/win it. 

I should say this, they had/have schwag packs as well, but, they're pretty comperable to what is given in disc golf as well, according to entry fee's applied.

Just my .02 as well......giggity
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 03:55:29 PM by tallguy007kc »
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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2011, 04:02:05 PM »
And, even if it is similar, isn't more money for payout one of the best ways to publicize the event? Isn't that why this year's worlds was billed as the first $100,000 worlds ever?

I didn't find them all, but this answers the question:
Vibram - $50k in Pro$
Worlds - $108k in Pro$
Pitt Open - $15.4k in Pro$
King of the Lake - $16.1k in Pro$
KCWO- $16.6k in Pro$
Brett H - $16.7k in Pro$
Beaver St - $#9.4k in Pro$
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jack

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2011, 04:09:27 PM »
the am vs. pro argument comes to mind.

So what underwhelmed you about the players pack?  I 've yet to be at an event and get 3 discs, 2 shirts for the $40 that was for the event.  If you can go shpping and buy those items, then ok you are better than I.  ($40=entry minus $5/ace and $5/PDGA fee).

As for the notion that you are being forced to pay $50 for the PDGA fee, its complete BS.  You either are a PDGA member or not for these events, no one is forcing you to join the PDGA, you make a choice to join the PDGA to play events.  If the Wide Open is the only PDGA event that you want to play, don't join, but help run the event in KC instead.  That argument is not part of the equation.

Rick discussed this idea last year as we came to event, and I am not opposed to it.

Our payout was completely inline with all the othere NT's. Even though the Wide Open lost money as an event this year it still paid out over 135% to the pro field.  So that argument still is confusing to me.

As to the notion of the $100,000 with the entry at $250 (thats $62.50/day) its pretty easy to get to $100,000 as you only needed 400 people to make that on the backs of the pro's alone.  We were better than that in 2009 where we gave away $83,000 and entry fee was $215 ($53.75/day) (which is $254/player) for the 327 pros, compared to 432 that played this year for the $108,160 ($250.37/player).  TO me the numbers and you how you play them can be the factors that people remember, but we got more money to the less players with over their entry fee, and then this years was about an even split based on #'s.  Also all players in KC got gifts, now we didn't all get a free pair of Keen's as they did this year, but that just a sponsorship now for Majors that Keen started after the Worlds and actually did in 2009 with the USDGC.

Its tough folks, but what options do you suggest to get more money then.  Are you willing to do the work needed to get the local sponsor on board now?  If so, we will start to create sponsor forms now to get out there, and get some limited run discs if you can convince me that we will sell them......that means buying them....
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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2011, 04:18:45 PM »
ON a good note though, love to be already talking about the 30th Wide Open this way.  Even if you hate me! ;D
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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2011, 04:29:49 PM »
And, even if it is similar, isn't more money for payout one of the best ways to publicize the event? Isn't that why this year's worlds was billed as the first $100,000 worlds ever?

I didn't find them all, but this answers the question:
Vibram - $50k in Pro$
Worlds - $108k in Pro$
Pitt Open - $15.4k in Pro$
King of the Lake - $16.1k in Pro$
KCWO- $16.6k in Pro$
Brett H - $16.7k in Pro$
Beaver St - $#9.4k in Pro$

So it looks like in pure $ amount we might be average, it might be the depth of the payout that has caused the grumblings in my memory.

But, it also begs the question, why be average? We should make this event like the Vibram or (1/2 a step below) Worlds. How did the USDGC get to be so prestigious? It's all about the benjamins.

jack

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2011, 04:35:37 PM »
USDGC=Innova Tourney
Vibram=Vibram Tourney

When you have a major corporation with its stamp  on it, it has deeper pocketys, this is how this happens....same with the Players Cup....(Discraft)
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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2011, 05:07:04 PM »
TO me its completely silly that we gave away 3 discs, 2 shirts, a glass (still available at DGW) to every am plus got them into the ace fund, and paid the PDGA fee for $50.


Didn't we have to pay for ace fund if we wanted in? I'm pretty sure that is the way it normally works.

And, how long have we had glasses at DGW? I guess that might have been a good thing to get the word out about a little better.


he "Word" has been out since June.

I never recieved word that the rest of our pack was available either....so this statement is false.

Also pre-picked player packs ALWAYS SUCK....give the player a voucher to pick something they actually want...even if they only get 2 discs because they are more pricey...atleast I don't get another dust collector for the shelf that nobody wants to buy either.

Trophy only is just a strange concept.....let me pay an azz load of money to get a crappy players pack and a 5 in 50 chance at a trophy.

« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 05:13:43 PM by Slant »
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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2011, 05:16:55 PM »
I like the stadium concept though....long drive, putting comp, live band and players party....all in the middle of Live Strong Park
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