Author Topic: 30th KCWO Think Tank  (Read 6524 times)

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coops

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2011, 05:22:30 PM »
USDGC=Innova Tourney
Vibram=Vibram Tourney

When you have a major corporation with its stamp  on it, it has deeper pocketys, this is how this happens....same with the Players Cup....(Discraft)

Yeah, so can't we get that?

Also, I know a guy who owns a bar and grill and just got into the smoker business. I know this is a long ways off but if we needed lunch provided somewhere there'd be a good place to start.

john theiss

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2011, 05:51:57 PM »
I think Boulevard Brew is missing out not sponsoring the event.  To me i am little puzzled why they wouldn't be all over an event like this.  What a great way for them to get their name all across the country and get folks wanting to buy their beer. 

Andy worked hard getting sponsorship for the Ram-n-Salmon and we need to address that but also address the big givers.  Big companies are not  hurting like the common man  or small business.  With all the disc golfers out there in KC, we need to tap our corporate businesses.  The Wide Open sounds even better when it is listed behind any of the following companies. 

KC Masterpeice WO
Gates BBQ WO
Bass Pro WO
Boulevard Brew WO
Cabelas WO
Cerner WO
Garmin WO
Hallmark WO
Sprint Nextel WO

eeastwood

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2011, 05:56:25 PM »
Jack, thanks for what you do.  I don't want you to think that just because I don't like how you do everything in a tournament, that I don't appreciate what it takes to run a tournament.  It's tough being in charge.  And there will always be complainers, but I'm also of the mindset that if you don't say something then those that put on events won't know how you feel.  These are just my thoughts and what I felt about the 2011 KCWO.  Take them for what they are worth. 

As far as 3 discs and 2 shirts go, I would say that it is a pretty good deal.  But right now, I'm not looking for a good deal.  I have lots of discs and lots of t-shirts.  I would prefer better quality and better selection.  If I only got 1 great disc (that I picked out) and 1 good shirt that I wore often for $40, then I would be happy. 

For the PDGA membership, it was a factor in my decision.  I know not everyone is in the same situation as I am.  I am very involved in my kids sports (coaching, etc.) and I don't have time to play in every tournament.  The KCWO actually falls on a weekend that I don't have any other commitments and it's the largest KC tournament so I definitely want to play in it.  I wasn't forced to play in the KCWO, but if I wanted to play in it I was forced to have a PDGA membership.  I personally know others that were planning on playing in the tournament until they found it was going to cost them $100 to play.  To say that it wasn't a factor, is false. 

If the trophy only issue wasn't why Ams didn't participate, then why were the numbers down in 2011?     


john theiss

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2011, 06:13:34 PM »
Not sure if Boulevard Brew was ever properly approached with a professional presentation, but Fat Tire has been huge in supporting bicycle races. If they sponsor bicycle races all over the world, maybe they would like to get into disc golf.  You would think being located in Ft. Collins, that they would have enough knowledge of disc golf and might be willing. It seems to me that handcrafted beer companies would be an excellent fit to be the main sponsor of our event. 

New Belgium Brewing Purpose Statement:
To operate a profitable brewery which makes our love and talent manifest.
Company Core Values and Beliefs


1.Remembering that we are incredibly lucky to create something fine that enhances people's lives while surpassing our consumers' expectations.

2.Producing world-class beers.

3.Promoting beer culture and the responsible enjoyment of beer.

4.Kindling social, environmental and cultural change as a business role model.

5.Environmental stewardship: Honoring nature at every turn of the business.

6.Cultivating potential through learning, high involvement culture, and the pursuit of opportunities.

7.Balancing the myriad needs of the company, our coworkers and their families.

8.Trusting each other and committing to authentic relationships and communications.

9.Continuous, innovative quality and efficiency improvements.

10.Having Fun.


Numbers 3, 5, and 10 are goals that would easily allign with our event.  And number 2, "producing world-class beer" with a world-class disc golf tournament has a nice ring to it as well.

john theiss

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2011, 06:20:23 PM »
check out this link to Fat Tire. if they sponsor events like this, with our cast of characters we should be a shoe in.

http://www.newbelgium.com/events/urban-assault-ride.aspx


Loomis

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2011, 06:42:52 PM »
I think it's important to pay as much attention to the AM side of a tournament as you do the PRO side. PRO's, on average, make up the smallest portion of the field in tournaments; so if you are focusing in more on the PRO's, you're alienating the majority of your players. If a tournament features both AM's and PRO's, and the AM side is smaller than the PRO side - that should be a red flag.

I play more PDGA tournaments than most people do and I am career AM to this point. So here are some of the things I have learned to look for when determining which tournaments to play:

1. QUALITY OF THE COURSES. - e.g. If Tulsa decides to have a tournament and I see that the AMS will not be playing Black Hawk or Hunter, I may be less inclined to play the tournament. I want to play the best courses the town/region has to offer. It's not always possible for this to happen, but I want to know that every effort is being made to get the best courses. It shows that the TD is thinking of the AM's just as much as the PRO's. For the past two years in a row, a very popular major tournament north of here wouldn't answer which courses it was going to use for its tournament and it prevented people from coming. People didn't know where to book hotels, or if the tournament was going to be worth going to. It was silly and it cost the tournament a lot of quality players.

2. PRICE - e.g. Is the cost reasonable for the experience? (Cost includes entry, fuel, lodging, food and the social cost from those back home)
     A) Player's Pack - A decent player's pack can off-set a high cost tournament. If the player's pack is advertized as "sick" or "huge" without listing any of the items, it's usually a sign that it's a lot of junk and maybe a disc. So I look for tournaments that list what you're getting on their flyer.  A player's pack on any event costing more than $45 should have at least one disc or a decent shirt. PERIOD. Stickers, bug spray, vitamin water and other such "free" items don't set my mind at ease when I'm shelling out $75.
(Local tournament player packs:
Dynamic Discs - disc or a tee shirt, or tee shirt and a towel. (traditionally)
LS Discs - Coupon for a disc and a shirt.
Columbia Disc Golf - Disc, shirt, area coupons, towel. They give you the option of upgrading to a better shirt or disc for a price, something I think is cheap in presentation.
St. Louis - At least 3 discs, shirt, towel, mini, coupons, food, and a free disc coupon from Gateway if you visit their store, stickers.
Des Moines - Pro plastic disc, a full color buzzz and a shirt, sticker.
Minnesota - Crystal disc, a shirt, a mini, water, sticker.
Joplin/Springfield - 3 discs, shirt, mini, coupons, water, sticker.
KC -wide open this year (3 discs, a shirt, stickers, towel)
     B) Player's parties - The player's party isn't a selling point with me because most of them never meet the purpose for which they were intended. The player's party should be the time when player's can commune with each other in relative comfort. Sadly, the parties are almost always in a bar, which excludes junior players and the non-bar types. A player's party is just becomes a night of going out to a bar and drinking... And not for free, so it's an extra cost. I think free meals (lunch or dinner, etc) are always a more exciting and well received idea than a player's party.
Dynamic Discs - Glass Blown - party at a bar, free visit to a food line.
LS Discs - Mighty Shunga - party at a bar/restaurant
Columbia - Mid America - Party in the park, free food.
Des Moines - First Class Challenge - party at a bar.
Minnesota - Majestic - party at the park, food costs extra.
St Louis - St Louis Open - party at the park, food is free.
Joplin/Springfield - 4 states, etc - party at the park, food is free.
AM Nationals - free breakfast, lunch and dinner every day. Player's party at a bar.
Bowling Green - player's party at a bar, one trip to food line.
     C) Travel between courses - If round one was at Olathe and round two at Pleasant Hill in the same day, I would probably skip this tournament. I know there were some issues with this at last year's AM Worlds. St. Louis has an issue with this during the St Louis Open every year. It's a long drive between their courses and it doesn't allow much time for lunch, rest or warming back up before round two. What can trump this issue is if the courses are so bad-ass that a long drive would be worth it.
     D) Pay out. It's important. PERIOD. Being cheap will cost you in the short and, more importantly, the long term. Trophies are nice, but never has the 7th place finisher out of a field of 20 received a trophy. Nor has he/she been ever been okay with it. I wonder how many PROS would sign up for a tournament if they knew the tournament was only going to pay the winner and no one else? And, if the pay out is HISTORICALLY bad - and the word of mouth is negative - don't expect the AM players to sign up. Every tournament has a positive and negative side to it, but too much negative can doom it. Players know a raw deal when the see it and stay away.

3. THE FIELD - I am not sure why more TD's haven't picked up on this yet, but they need to read the memo - Keeping the PDGA sign up sheet up to date is a HUGE deal for AM players. WHO is playing is very important. If a field looks thin in number - why would I want to go? Is it worth paying 50 bucks to play with just six players? Major tournaments have really dropped the ball on this. AMS who are close to turning PRO are looking for specific AM players to compete against who increase the level of the competition in a tournament. If I pull up the PDGA page and only see four players - who are all locals to that tournament - I'm staying away. If you can't get people to sign up early, send out emails and find out who is THINKING about signing up. Make sure the list of "possibly going to plays" are available somewhere so people can see that there is going to be SOMETHING going on at your event. I can think of two tournaments in Missouri who didn't keep their sign up sheet active and no one went because they saw it was empty. It's a major selling point.

4. COMMUNICATION - Can I get a hold of anyone involved with a tournament to get my questions answered? I played an A tier tournament where the only contact information was a phone number which no one ever answered. When we did get someone on the phone, their answer to the question of where we should go to sign in was, "Old man's house." And that was it. No instructions. No information. AND again, the major tournament up north was quiet on what was going on with the tournament and that prevented people from coming. Have accurate information, which is updated daily or at the very least, weekly. Would you be willing to travel 9 hours to a tournament if you didn't any information about it?

There are other factors which I take into consideration but these are the main ones. I shell out over a grand a year to play tournaments and I want to know my money is well spent.

The best tournament experiences are the ones where the focus is on the player's enjoyment. When the experience exceeds expectation, not falls short.

A good example of what can happen when the prize goes from good to a trophy is about to be displayed in one of Disc golf's greatest tournaments of the year.

.....

KC WIDE OPEN should always be 3 days, four rounds (swope, waterworks, blue valley, rosedale or cliff), and the level of play should be increased(like Swope Gold this year).




coops

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2011, 08:37:14 PM »
Very well put Loomis. Do you think that an Am and a Pro weekend would help facilitate those goals for the Am player? I know one thing that is important is having time to watch the Pros play, since they do things on an entirely different level than most of us mortals. I guess splitting the weekends risks the out of town Am not coming because they wouldn't have that opportunity unless they came back another weekend.

And to the point of Swope Gold, I wished I could've gotten to play it this year. I thought Timko and everyone else involved did an excellent job assuring quality and fairness. The one cautionary note is that some of the pros I was in proximity to at the event were bemoaning some of the created OB. Of course, make a course hard enough and people complain, but, sometimes they could be right. I think it would be worth investigating having a world class designer or consultant (like a Harold Duvall or John Houck) examine the proposed layouts. I know that money doesn't need to be spent there but if you, for example, get Duvall involved both as a major sponsor and integral designer it may be easy enough to convince him of the advantage of assuring the highest quality of play is attained. Another option is reaching out to the top pros would would be playing, the Jenkins, Doss, Feldberg, Climo, et al and getting them to test designs or help tweak designs. They do things with discs most can't imagine and having that kind of input would be invaluable.

That being said, we should of course not lose the local feel. Nobody knows Swope better than Timko and he does a great job making sure that course is in ship shape for the event. No matter how much help we have in making sure the courses are demanding we would likely still need a local in charge.

BV is one course that could definitely benefit from the occasional artificial OB line.

coops

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2011, 08:42:20 PM »
I too think that Boulevard is really missing out not being a major sponsor of this event, or even sponsoring the players party! (Seriously, their facilities are excellent, and what a better way to get more people to know their brand).

But, for all intents and purposes, New Belgium makes better beer and seems more willing to reach out and sponsor events, even those far from Ft. Collins.

In any case, we should definitely look into approaching sponsors as early as possible. Though it is a long time coming for all of us involved it shows that the event is serious and a worthwhile investment to begin attaining sponsorship, or reaching out to sponsors, as early as possible.

Ken Franks

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2011, 11:18:54 PM »
Everytime I read this thread name, I think, Why the hell you wanna think, ME?!?!
Talent beats hard work, but Hard work beats Talent that doesn't work hard...

Loomis

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2011, 11:58:29 PM »
If the flyer for the KC wide open reads:
Men ADV -  60 (or 75) bucks.
2 discs, tee shirt and free lunch each day.
Player's party is a pig roast at SWOPE (or WATERWORKS).
A final nine for the top four players.
A speical trophy for first place.
Pay out for the top half (or third) of the field.

The courses to be played are the Gold settings of Waterworks, Swope, Rosedale and Cliff (or Blue Valley).

Contact information... .... ....
Best hotel values in the area are... .... ...

That's a tournament that I want to play in Kansas City. Or anywhere.


tallguy007kc

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #40 on: September 16, 2011, 11:34:04 AM »
Not sure if Boulevard Brew was ever properly approached with a professional presentation, but Fat Tire has been huge in supporting bicycle races. If they sponsor bicycle races all over the world, maybe they would like to get into disc golf.  You would think being located in Ft. Collins, that they would have enough knowledge of disc golf and might be willing. It seems to me that handcrafted beer companies would be an excellent fit to be the main sponsor of our event. 


I can say for sure that New Belgium/Fat Tire was a pretty big sponsor for The Memorial earlier this year, as they had multiple type discs with their stamp on them.  I'm sure they did other things as well, but, would have to do some serious memory jog to remember everything they did for the tourney.
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john theiss

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2011, 12:00:44 PM »
I have been notified that most of the companies that i listed as future sponsors had been contacted in the past and  i assumed that they had been. In addition, several companies were approached with professional presentations which is easy to believe since we have had  successful events and  due to our amazing volunteers. We have  a great group of involved golfers here in KC and so  many of you  have great relationships and contacts.  However, that was just a list to get players thinking about their place of employment or to get them thinking about where their friends work. There are a ton of disc golfers out there that might want to get involved in take part in the historic 30 KCWO.  So many folks are new to the game or do not even know about our club or our events.

The  Think Tank is a place to get chatter going from all disc golfers of  all abilities.  A place for pros,cons, wishes and all ideas are welcome.   Please keep posting your comments. Thanks  Loomis for sharing your  great insight.

phisherman_77

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2011, 12:43:50 PM »
Let me see what Saint Luke's things about disc golf.  Anyone wanna come and do a pitch with me?

jack

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2011, 02:05:15 PM »
If the flyer for the KC wide open reads:
That's a tournament that I want to play in Kansas City. Or anywhere.

Thanks Loomis.  I like this type of information.  I appreciate it. 
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David E

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Re: 30th KCWO Think Tank
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2011, 03:58:15 PM »
Something to consider is it's 2012 budget time for a lot of these companies, in fact budgets may be done?
If we are looking for a big time sponsor, start presenting now, not in February or March!

Also, has the KC Sports Commission ever been approached? With the recent death of Kevin Grey I'm not sure what the status is there, but perhaps they could help?

How about the KC Convention and Visitors Bureau as well?
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