30th KCWO Think Tank

[jack]

The KCMO convention and tourism is a big proponent of ours, but they don't "sponsor" in terms of dollars.  In fact they won't even send requests or give lists to help.

KC Sports Commission has been approached in the past as well, they haven't had deep pockets so it hasn't been as good as I'd like, but this also hasn't been met with the enthusiasm as I would like.  Our conversations ended up having the KCFDC join the commission, in hopes of being able to reach potential sponsors, so they actually got out of us more than we got out of them at the time.  THe best thing that came from that though was our relationship with Women's side of the commission, and helped in many years with clinics to promote the sport in the WIN KC programs.

You are absolutely correct in the timing of presentations though.  This conversation was started by the BoD because I was asking for a logo for the event to start to publicize.

I would like to see KC have a logo that defies time and we can use every year, and then every year we continue to have a new logo for the event, but we also have a logo that is timeless in nature that convey's the history of disc golf in KC over the last 30 yrs, and remains true so that at every event as it ends we have a limited run of the new plastic du'jour with that to start raising money for next year.

I was really ticked off at worlds with the Memorial already selling plastic for next year, as we seem to always be reactionary at times to it.

I understand that the Memorial is the first warm weather event, and its really Discraft's baby event to start off, but why couldn't we be that way, and why aren't we?

Some good thoughts in here for certain, some thoughts I don't agree with, but good thoughts all around, keep them coming.  If you know a good artist, I am sure that we can find some funds to make it a paid deal to get  a logo that is timeless, and every year they're logo will be a hit!

[savagesam]

A Tournament should be run with everyone in mind. From the top player to the beginner. The experience for each should be the same. I don't play many tourneys. Yet I have heard (as mentioned by Loomis) that "Courses" were the reason some of my friends elected to bypass the KCWO in the past. A Tournament should be run as a business. Take a restaurant. The best deliver quality food, service and atmosphere time and time again. Regardless of the stature or income of the customer. Yet we have been to many restaurants that look promising and fail to deliver on one or all accounts. Bottom line, deliver a great product and people will come. Dilute the product and people will know and stay away. That starts from when the sun rises till it sets. Think of your favorite tournaments and what is it you like most? Quality of courses? Player pacts? Activities before and after play? They should all be there. Why is a can't miss tournament can't miss? You guys have been to many tournaments! Use those experiences to influence how you run yours. Make sure you check every box as far as quality and it will grow. Cap the amount of players if quality of the courses is an issue. Never compromise the product to be "Bigger". It will be interesting to watch GBO next year as a few folks I know will be bypassing it based on how they want to grow. 3 days, 3 rounds and tee times. Could be brilliant or not. Time will tell. I was dissappointed this past year that my group did not play Jones East (my favorite). Will that in fluence my decision to play next year? You betcha! They may get bigger next year but I think more folks will realize that the product is diluted and may think twice about attending. Just my opinion. DD does a great job of running tournaments but bigger does not necessarily mean better. Think outside the box. Maybe give players a choice of courses to play (till they fill) and place them in divisions based on that. Yeah complicated I know. But please your customer and they will return.

[Cooper]

Yes, it is wrong to not let Ams play the premier courses, but it is more wrong to not let the Pros play them. (Though many of the premier courses are not correct, based on skill level, for Ams to play.)

I think that the best way to make sure that Ams and Pros are equally taken care of is to host separate events. Sure at smaller events there is the capability to cater to each, but in the largest events that becomes difficult at best.

[gleauzinier]

Not sure if Boulevard Brew was ever properly approached with a professional presentation, but Fat Tire has been huge in supporting bicycle races. If they sponsor bicycle races all over the world, maybe they would like to get into disc golf.  You would think being located in Ft. Collins, that they would have enough knowledge of disc golf and might be willing. It seems to me that handcrafted beer companies would be an excellent fit to be the main sponsor of our event. 

the folks I know at boulevard say they would donate beer before $, kinda of the way they do it. years ago we had donated beer, and with the proper permits, sold it at swope during the tournament and made a pant load. the big savior of the first wide open was the local distributor of bud light, they came up with money and beer for the player party. hell, we had kegs left over and the finals were almost curtailed and I almost went to jail over some barney fife goober at shawnee mission park watching people breaking into my van and filling up bud cups.

as far as the new belgium folks, they used to give us bicycles to raffle, I've gotten swag from them like hats, discs, glasses, etc. what happened to that connection? it would be nice to have a handcrafted beer company sponsor us but how many disc golfers actually buy their products? I see mostly coolers and trash cans full of domestic beers, I would wager craft brew drinkers are in the minority around here.

Everytime I read this thread name, I think, Why the hell you wanna think, ME?!?!

                EXACTLY!

[Ken Franks]

New Belgium is wonderful to work with as potential sponsor. They really stepped up to the plate and donated to the Old Pike Cookie Cutter Classic, with 3 kegs of their nectar. Jack knows Adam, the New Belgium Beer Ranger for Kansas City, and they are more than knowledgeable about disc golf. They were the title sponsor for the World Championships in 2003 in Flagstaff, amongst many other contributions.

 Not sure, how comfortable they are w/ also handing over monetary sponsorships, but It wouldn't hurt to ask!

[aarong]

I know about 20 ams up here in michigan that did not wanna play wide open due to trophy only. I'm not sure what's going on in KC but Larry Labond (08 world's TD) tourney's in michigan have been far better in one year than KC tourneys were in 3 yrs I played there, except for Loomis' olathe open. I know you probably don't care if 20 michiganders come down there, but that's just what I can add in this convo. I along with a lot of ams aren't set on trophy only. And I know I've said this before but I "won" a trophy at 09 city of fountains that I have yet to receive. So what would make me ever wanna play a "trophy only" tourney again? I heard horrible things about Jack Lowe tourney's but still gave em a shot. Poorly ran tourneys news will spread throughout the USA!! Loomis and Larry Labond for President!!! Come play Michigan, you won't be disappointed!!! Well, at the right TD tourneys!

[Ken Franks]

I have never played in an Amateur division, I played my first ever tourney in 2003 as an Open player and have never looked back.

  That being said, I think "Trophy only" divisions for Am's are bunk too!!

 Give them plastic and help support disc golf companies...

[aarong]

Yeah, what TANK said!

[HaterAde]

I heard horrible things about Jack Lowe tourney's...

Like what?

[John Chapman]

2. BIGGER PAYOUT for Pros. As far as I understand it that has been the knock against the KCWO for a while. To get people to come to this event there needs to be a way to make travel money back and the way to do that is to beef up payout (obviously easier said than done, maybe a title sponsor?). Along with maintaining NT status this will keep the event as prestigious as it needs to be.

I have NEVER heard that about KC, the only payout complaints have been on the AM side, where did you come up (hear, perception from others etc....curious) with this idea?

I had heard this from a few pros in the past, but not for several years. Their argument at the time was that the winner got less than in other tournaments, until I pointed out that we actually paid out more, but the distribution was flatter and deeper. Since that time, the rest of the DG world has come around to our way of thinking, and what we have been doing all along is now commonplace.

Chap

[twoDornottwoD]

That being said, I think "Trophy only" divisions for Am's are bunk too!!

 Give them plastic and help support disc golf companies...

You miss understand the concept of trophy only tournaments.  I think they support the disc golf companies even more.  They get their products in the hands of all the competitors instead of just the top few.  The number of discs given out are the same.  The winners' plastic is spread into the players packs so that everyone gets their money's worth.  It helps to nullify the bagger problem in this sport.  The top ams keep winning plastic instead of moving up, and this habit filters down into the lower am divisions.  There are many reasons, good and bad, for why people don't move up, including ever-rising pro fees.  The continual am winners/cashers have more plastic than they can throw and end up moving the plastic on ebay for cash or collecting dust in the basement.  the word amateur is derived from doing an activity "for the love of".  I strongly support the trophy only trend because the baggers aren't making anything off their fellow competitors' backs.  they can stay down for financial reasons, competitive balance, or bragging rights, but they can't stay down as a cash grab.  its the way amateur events in any event are supposed to theoretically operate.

[gleauzinier]

I honestly forget, what was in my kcwo pro player packet that cost me $150 with no guarantee of anything more than words of encouragement and a hearty handclasp from john theiss, volunteer of the year?

[John Chapman]

I know about 20 ams up here in michigan that did not wanna play wide open due to trophy only. I'm not sure what's going on in KC but Larry Labond (08 world's TD) tourney's in michigan have been far better in one year than KC tourneys were in 3 yrs I played there, except for Loomis' olathe open. I know you probably don't care if 20 michiganders come down there, but that's just what I can add in this convo. I along with a lot of ams aren't set on trophy only. And I know I've said this before but I "won" a trophy at 09 city of fountains that I have yet to receive. So what would make me ever wanna play a "trophy only" tourney again? I heard horrible things about Jack Lowe tourney's but still gave em a shot. Poorly ran tourneys news will spread throughout the USA!! Loomis and Larry Labond for President!!! Come play Michigan, you won't be disappointed!!! Well, at the right TD tourneys!

No arguments against Larry, he ran a decent Worlds, and I've never been to any other event of his. Michigan ams won't come to the Wide Open as long the Great Lakes Amateur Championship, I mean USADGC ( a good event, not bashing it, but it's pretty much a regional event with a few people from outside a Great Lakes State) is on the same weekend. Frankly, there aren't many people from here that are going to travel to Michigan, either, and it's really more a function of distance form the event. Why would I travel 8-10 hours to Michigan when I have a great tourney less than 3 hours away in KC, Columbia, Des Moines, Emporia, Omaha, Lincoln, etc.... Michigan has so many events that they don't really need to leave the state ever.

[twoDornottwoD]

I honestly forget, what was in my kcwo pro player packet that cost me $150 with no guarantee of anything more than words of encouragement and a hearty handclasp from john theiss, volunteer of the year?

sorry mo.  i meant to say "all the ams" not "all the competitors".

[jamidanger]

my major complaint was the mpg entry fee. i like the deep plastic payout for the ams. i also like the 5 round format, with a cut for the semis and finals.