30th KCWO Think Tank

[ekolk]

Trophy only is a load of crap. Sorry as an Am player, I see trophy and think "What the hell am I paying for? A player's pack? Is this some of that "everybody's a winner" crap. Sorry entitlement generation, but it stinks. And it does nothing to promote sportsmanship.

If the 30th Wide Open goes trophy only, I gotta wonder about leadership and where the priorities are.

Ams need to play at least four rounds, too. There is a huge competitive and athletic advantage to the fourth round. If you are out of shape and can't hold it together over four rounds, then you will lose. Please support your Ams all over the world, many of them will be the next Pros.

[dickthediscparker]

Please support your Ams all over the world, many of them will be the next Pros.

lol

[gleauzinier]

sorry mo.  i meant to say "all the ams" not "all the competitors".

we're cool drew.
while I couldn't help throwing some gas on the fire what was the tangible pro pp stuff? I know it's apples and passion fruit but it's also a roll of the dice for some of us pros, not knowing which of your multiple personalities is going to show up for the round that day.

[CRAMNATION7]

Trophy only is a load of crap. Sorry as an Am player, I see trophy and think "What the hell am I paying for? A player's pack? Is this some of that "everybody's a winner" crap. Sorry entitlement generation, but it stinks. And it does nothing to promote sportsmanship.

If the 30th Wide Open goes trophy only, I gotta wonder about leadership and where the priorities are.

Ams need to play at least four rounds, too. There is a huge competitive and athletic advantage to the fourth round. If you are out of shape and can't hold it together over four rounds, then you will lose. Please support your Ams all over the world, many of them will be the next Pros.

i totally agree, turn out will be small in ams again if its trophy only.

[HaterAde]

Having never played a big event like the WO, I was wondering what sorts of prizes get rewarded to Ams when the event is not "trophy only"? Are we talking about additional schwag like baskets or disc bags, etc?

[twoDornottwoD]

Is this some of that "everybody's a winner" crap. Sorry entitlement generation, but it stinks. And it does nothing to promote sportsmanship.

i hate the entitlement generation and the "everybody's a winner" crap too but they're not giving everyone a trophy, just the people who place.  trophy only gives everyone something for their hard earned entry money, not for winning something they didn't deserve.  those that win, get the trophies and titles. 

If the 30th Wide Open goes trophy only, I gotta wonder about leadership and where the priorities are.

i wonder where your priorities are to question the leadership of volunteers who sacrifice their time away from their families for a sport they love and are trying to help.  i understand there are valid arguments for and against trophy only but this statement is rude and idiotic.  do you spit in the salvation army cup too because the bell hurts your ears or interrupts your cell phone call?  give me a break.

Ams need to play at least four rounds, too. There is a huge competitive and athletic advantage to the fourth round. If you are out of shape and can't hold it together over four rounds, then you will lose.

agree completely.

[twoDornottwoD]

Trophy only is just a strange concept.....let me pay an azz load of money to get a crappy players pack and a 5 in 50 chance at a trophy.

players pack is the key.  trophy only events have to make the difference up there.  i'm okay with as loomis said, giving the 7th place person a trophy in a 20 person field.  25%-40% of the field should get trophies. 

..though i must say andy, it's not "chance" when you have some control over the outcome.  you just gotta get that ol' one finger performing a little better. 

[Cooper]

I know about 20 ams up here in michigan that did not wanna play wide open due to trophy only. I'm not sure what's going on in KC but Larry Labond (08 world's TD) tourney's in michigan have been far better in one year than KC tourneys were in 3 yrs I played there, except for Loomis' olathe open. I know you probably don't care if 20 michiganders come down there, but that's just what I can add in this convo. I along with a lot of ams aren't set on trophy only. And I know I've said this before but I "won" a trophy at 09 city of fountains that I have yet to receive. So what would make me ever wanna play a "trophy only" tourney again? I heard horrible things about Jack Lowe tourney's but still gave em a shot. Poorly ran tourneys news will spread throughout the USA!! Loomis and Larry Labond for President!!! Come play Michigan, you won't be disappointed!!! Well, at the right TD tourneys!

That Loomis run tournament was one of the best I've ever played, he did a great job getting that all together.

[aarong]

Well said Chappy! That about sums it all up. I guess all the ams do stay up here for usadgc. You wanna talk about a bagger state, geez michigan. Everyone up here stays am because they wanna win usadgc! With this tourney being in our back yard. And you always see the same pros winning because not a lot of pros leave michigan. It is nice having a tournament 1.5 hrs away from me EVERY weekend. And haterade, if you ask around about jack lowe tourneys I'm sure you'll hear all about em.

[Loomis]

Thank you for the compliments. The Olathe open was a lot of fun to do. However, it should say something that it was the ONLY tournament that I have run. It was a lot of work - most of which goes unnoticed and unappreciated. I needed a lot of help and I was lucky that there were people willing to do so. So, thank you, but it was very much a group effort. I will say "thank you" on behalf of all those faceless souls who made me look so good that day.

That said, I want to challenge everyone on this forum to run at least one tournament. It says something to your credibility that you would be willing to sacrifice yourself for the sake of the sport. It will give you a great deal of insight into just how much work it is. Just the paperwork from the PDGA alone is a monster pain in the ass. So is contacting a million different entities trying to coordinate a tournament at a fixed space in time. It's easier to pick up rice with chopsticks using just your toes. So, we should restrain from giving deep criticisms of willing TD's until we have put our own butts on the line first. Then feel free to lambast them with all the vitriol you can muster.

He without sin, cast the first stone.

[HaterAde]

And haterade, if you ask around about jack lowe tourneys I'm sure you'll hear all about em.

Uh, yeah, I just did "ask around" about Jack Lowe tourneys. I asked you about them in direct response to your post. So what is your problem with Jack's events? Perhaps if you let your issue(s) be known, those issues may have a chance to be addressed in future tournaments.

Jack's done a lot for disc golf and has a vast amount of travel experience within the sport as well. If you're going to object to how he runs events, the least you could do is provide an explanation.

[aarong]

Hahaha haterade, you're funny.

[HaterAde]

Hahaha haterade, you're funny.

Maybe so, but you sounded pretty serious when you badmouthed Jack's events. Just genuinely curious as to what may have prompted you to do so.

On a sidenote, I'm glad you're enjoying Michigan. I thought the courses there were great, but found the overall disc golf scene is much more alive here in KC.

[gleauzinier]

again, the question: why don't one of you very capable, confident ams find a sponsor that provides the prizes/equivalent for the amateur competitors? you want it go out and help get it.

[aarong]

I won a jack lowe tourney in am1 once and got 8 kc kash, and was supposed to get a "trophy" disc. That was oct 09 and still haven't gotten a trophy disc. I don't care about it now. But why would I play a jack lowe trophy only tourney now. I'm sure I'll play another one of jacks tourneys, but now I won't expect anything from it. I think other than the KC wide open that kansas city disc golf caters more to the recreation side of disc golfing and not as much to the sanctioning side. Which is ok, but people like certain TD's more than others and certain tourneys more than others. I like jack lowe tourneys, but I'll just have to keep in mind the am payout will be crappy ...my thoughts and opinions... And michigan clubs are just as alive as KC... even more so in the winter. These guys are crazy up here.