Grip Equipment presents The 31st Kansas City Wide Open-June 14-16 KCWideOpen.com

[coops]

it hard to understand why ya'll are worried about when the call was made,with all that was going on on this weekend,i guess it's the only thing you could find to complain about..............very well run tournament(with all that mother nature give us)

It's simply an issue of magnitude. The caddy book was off, I wish there were tee times, and I'm sure there are a few others things I could nit-pick if I wanted to. The thing about it is that it was a very well run tournament even with its flaws. This issue, while we thankfully avoided anything dire this time, has shed some light on the processes and procedures involved in the safety aspect of our sport. Nothing happened this time, but it would be asinine to think that means nothing will happen in the future.

Minor problems can be forgiven. Events of major magnitude have to be considered. Like I said from the start: I'm not speaking to this instance as I wasn't on this course at this time. We were done at BV by the time the storm came in. I think there is something to be said for continually striving for improvement and establishing brightline safety requirements for our events.

[jack]

Only a few instances of the Caddy Book were off, and that was from the information that was given to me by the person that did it.  I didn't do my due diligence in double checking all the information as I normally do because it was done by a third party this year in an effort to make it look better.  Since I am not running the event it will not be an issue next year for me.

THe weather is the weather.  You don't pull people off a course because there is a storm in the area 35 minutes away.  Kevin and I were in communication as I was with all the Course Directors about the timing of pulling people off.  Did we wait to long and some people got wet, sure, but the immediate threat that seems to be a topic in here wasn't the case.  Seeing lightning 20-30 miles away and having the technology to view it on the phones now adays makes the lightning detectors not as needed as some are implying here.  The PDGA used to have them and with the advent of the phones and the technology it is easy to identify patterns.

Too many times in our area it rains in Olathe and doesn't at WW, the same is made of Swope to Rosedale.  THe weather shifts, we were watching it, and when it looked to be as though that it was going to be passing over the areas affected, play was called.  Simple as that.  THe fact that it was discussed, "oh it's coming" as Loomis indicated, so what, it is coming, that doesn't mean pull them off right then, you pull them off when it becomes unsafe which is what happened.

AS for tee times, I will say it again and this really @#)(*&(*@#&(*_#W& irritates me, had you attended the players meeting you would have known this.....tee times would have happened if there were enough players to support it.  There was a plan in place to make it happen, but I am not asking my all volunteer staff to sit outside in the hot sun an extra 5 hours so you can play on a tee time.  Had we had people to be there to make it happen plans were in place to have that happen in the NT division.  Tee-times don't make an event, so get over yourself in thinking that, an event is made by the players and the mindset and attitudes that they bring.

THose of you that complained about tee times on the NT, the only thing that I really can say is that with tee times, the event wouldn't have finished and we would have quite possibly had to suspend play until Sunday at Blue Valley.  I for one was glad that tee times didn't happen exactly for reasons like this weekend.  Someone playing at 10am, was having less weather than a 1 pm start for absolute certain.

Run large events sometimes and you will see that it isn't about you and your desires, it is about the other 308 players out there and ensuring a fair format that works for everyone to have a balanced chance at competition.

Overall some mistakes were made, the stupid Drop Zones at Swope I am still hating that I caved.  A caddy book is off a few places on distances and one line with a map.......you didn't get tee times, I can live with all of these errors.  Next time you want to do something your way, step up and run the event.  That is the only way you will ever get your way.

[coops]

Boy, can't even take a compliment about a well run tournament.

The books: Not a problem for the locals but if I hadn't been local I would've been pissed. All in all not a big deal as they were, as you pointed out, mostly right. That being said, I don't think there is anything wrong with saying that they were wrong. It is a statement of fact and if we aim to improve in future years we can't be afraid of seeing the failures.

The tee-times: Not so sure why you're pissed off that I prefer events with tee times. It is a preference. Many great events operate exclusively on tee times and I, personally, like those events the best. You may not. It is opinion and while still open for debate, highly personal. As for saying that finishing at BV before the storm rolled in showed by tee times are not better I would point you to the old saying about hindsight. It is weak to suggest that because it worked in this instance it 'necessarily' means that it was better this way. But, lest you latch on to this one point to get upset about, let me say it again: the argument over tee times is largely an issue of preference.

The players' meeting: Not worth attending based on previous experience. I've played too many tournaments where it is simply a waste of time to even attend an on course meeting (though I still do). When it is off course and the night before an event and an hour away from my house, I'm not going to be there. Any pertinent information could and should still be covered at the course. And, in case you choose to berate me for not getting a caddy book as a result of not checking in myself I would say maybe make the check in times more friendly for those locals that are working the day before the event. Most days I would have been able to do it myself but that particular day was hectic at work and I didn't leave till almost 5, and hour after check in closed. The next time that I had heard I would be able to check in was around the players' meeting, which was several hours after the fact and not worth waiting for.

The lightning: Let me reiterate for those of you that can't seem to understand the point that I am making about this. I'm not talking about this particular instance and largely I'm speaking to the overall PDGA rules of competition but I think there needs to be a brightline standard for when to suspend play. Say any strike within 30 miles suspends play for at least 30 minutes or something like that. With that there also needs to be a reliance on the technology that we have to make the call for us. I've seen too many events where the TD is unwilling to call players off because they don't want to be viewed as making the call too early. And on the other side of it I'm sure there are times when the TD has called players off too early. My point is that there just need to be clear rules and clear devices that activate those rules.

In sum, it was a great tournament. Thanks to all the volunteers for making it happen. Thanks most of all to Jack for being the figurehead that has to deal with all of the circumstances that come up. Now, can we all stop being so sensitive and have real discussion about what went well and what didn't go so well so that we aren't doomed to repeat the latter?

[coops]

http://www.pdga.com/rules/competition-manual/section-1-tournament-procedures/17-suspension-of-play

This rule sucks. With elections coming up I hope all of us contact some board members and those hoping to be elected and talk to them about it and how to improve it.

[Loomis]

The cavalier attitude about weather is exactly what will come back to haunt some event and then we'll see what you think. The weather was sour and it was going to be an issue and we should have been pulled when lightning and thunder were present. Period. Again, your opinion was all that mattered according to the PDGA but I suspect that's about to change. Quite a few cards at swope were put off by the lack of appropriate action on behalf of this one call and felt it was handled poorly. Of course, the moments passed now and most of them have left town - though a few locals who could comment on the errant call are not "forum dwellers" and therefore have made no mention of their opinion.

I had no issues with any other aspects of the tournament other than the errant call at swope. I applaud everyone and everything else about the event and have my times both before, during and after the tournament. I stand by my statement about the call and will make my concerns about it known to the PDGA directly.

In the ocean of decisions that had to be made this weekend, this is the only one I have disagreed with. So consider yourself - and this event - a success! Pat yourself on the back again, jack, and try not to feel victimized because a few locals can twist your ear about what they thought about the weekend. I'm sure your vanity will survive this and, certainly, all future calamities that may befall you.

So can we please dump the empty, "then you run it then" woe-is-me responses?

[Loomis]

Well done to the KCFDC and all the volunteers to make the 31st a success! Excellent TD and assistant work at every course, spotters in places I didn't expect to see but were needed and great to have them.  Also not to forget all the man hours put in to prepare for the event both on course and off.  Thank you all! 

I agree. And again, anyone who volunteered at the event can redeem a $5 gift certificate at mile north.

[coops]

Well done to the KCFDC and all the volunteers to make the 31st a success! Excellent TD and assistant work at every course, spotters in places I didn't expect to see but were needed and great to have them.  Also not to forget all the man hours put in to prepare for the event both on course and off.  Thank you all!

*Like*

[ekolk]

Every player I talked to seem to love the courses and the event. Nate Doss commmented to Kristie and me about how much he and other pro players enjoyed the schedule and playing the core courses of KC> He also mentioned it wouldn't be bad to skip Rosie to play Cliff in the future, after redesign.

We had a great showof community in the form of volunteers and I hope you can all make it to the volunteer party TBA.

[jack]

Every player I talked to seem to love the courses and the event. Nate Doss commmented to Kristie and me about how much he and other pro players enjoyed the schedule and playing the core courses of KC> He also mentioned it wouldn't be bad to skip Rosie to play Cliff in the future, after redesign.

We had a great showof community in the form of volunteers and I hope you can all make it to the volunteer party TBA.

Played Cliff last night, it was in beautiful shape.  Moved it to the Mighty Mo Settings.

Cooper, tee-times not directed at you per se, you mentioned it.  Best events don't equate tee-times again I agree with the sentiment that it is an opinion.  If we had more volunteers to help with the event tee-times would be a better option, but we don't people don't all show up to help, many have other items they would rather do fact of live unfortunately.  If we could pay our volunteers it would be better, our sport doesn't support it, and not enough in our community of local disc golfers go out to get sponsors to help to make this a reality. 

Loomis, my call, and it was the right call, as for you and several other cards comment, spot wrong bud you are the only person that has said anything to me that I am aware of (or Kevin for that matter) so we upset you, I can live with that.  Kevin has SEVERAL years of running and helping run events, he made the call as he sees fit, and he is an exceptional volunteer of DECADES of work to the club and thousands of hours, and I trust and believe his decisions over your opinion in this instance.  Sorry YOU don't like it Loomis, it was not your call to make, and your rhetoric to the notion that it was not a wise decision is only your opinion.  Those that volunteered to make it happen thank you, for all the work that went in, please don't let this one sour note ruin another wise wonderful weekend of disc golf.

I know that this is only a couple of items that we are discussing about the event, and overall most are happy with how things developed over the course of the weekend, some mistakes were made, but overall those pale in event as a whole.  It took an entire community of disc golfers (even you and Cooper, Loomis) and I thank you all for the work leading up to the event, during the event, and the continuation of cleaning up the courses and resetting Swope for us to enjoy.

Our courses always look great this time of year, and there are hundred if not thousands of disc golfers in the area that are unaware of our efforts as a collective group to improve disc golf for the players from all over the world.  I think that a thank you is never enough, and as such I know that a volunteer party is being planned.  One item I would like all of you players to think about, is possibly coming out and spotting and caddying for the volunteer party, your way of thanking all of the people that put out their time to make your event work.  It would be nice to see some of that type of behavior from the players in the event locally if you can.  Just food for thought out here.

These are small issues, and shouldn't even really be discussed as everything was followed to the tee of the rules, and the communication was delivered.  It is sad you choose this topic to berate on a great guy for the club, and an event that many enjoyed.

Again thanks to all that played, helped, watched, or followed, it was a fun ride!

[Loomis]

Decades of volunteering, right call/ wrong call, who has said what regarding the call... Its empty rhetoric, bud. The captain of the Titanic had years of experience. And those who had opinions regarding the calamity usually never said anything. You can brush the issue aside all you want. You can even cloak your responses in "thank you's" and "congratulations." It doesn't change the fact that the call was wrong and you stand by it. I disagree with you. That's it. We'll see if this moment changes the rule regarding weather for future evets when you and Captain Smith are no longer allowed to use your keen sense of weather prediction for calling a tournament. So it ends with us not agreeing on this issue. You had the right to call it when you did and nothing will change a Jack opinion about a Jack call. So I will go over your head and make sure you don't get to make that call again. Easy enough.

[coops]

When and where is the volunteer party? If I'm available I'd love to come out and help.

[jack]

Decades of volunteering, right call/ wrong call, who has said what regarding the call... It doesn't change the fact that the call was wrong and you stand by it. I disagree with you. That's it. We'll see if this moment changes the rule regarding weather for future evets.....

Again this is your opinion Loomis, only you feel it was wrong.  I stand by the fact that the call made was correct and done in consultation with many individuals monitoring the weather closely.  Were you watching your phone or playing the round?  My goal as TD is to ensure that things go as planned and safety is a concern.  Pulling people off the course when YOU felt like it wasn't my concern.  My concern is the safety of everyone and the decision was made in a timely fashion to minimize distraction from the event and allow safety to be maintained.  That was achieved.

You don't like it, you made it clear.  Fortunately though your opinion on this matter though obviously notated had no impact on the decisions of others that were in charge to make the decision.  I get you don't like it, but having played in an event just three weeks ago where play should have been suspended I understood there is a line, you play in foul weather, it happens, you don't play in unsafe weather, that is what we did.  We allowed play in foul weather, and pulled players in unsafe weather.  Your definition wasn't consulted and I apologize for that.  I used the modern thing that I am typing on to gather the information and worked with Kevin at making an informed decision as to when.  Maybe a few minutes could have been done earlier, but the notion of 30-35 minutes earlier is just silly.

Again I will hide it in a big thank you to all that helped, like it or not Loomis, over a 100 people helped to make this event work for you to play, and if you don't like the decisions the step up and run the event and make the decisions next time, and then listen to people that are single sided with conversational points that they see as the only way it should be done.

[jack]

When and where is the volunteer party? If I'm available I'd love to come out and help.

Will be working on a date.  THey had all the local players in Santa Cruz come and cook food, spot, and caddy for all the volunteers at Worlds there in 2011, and I thought that was a super cool idea.  I will be sure to share accordingly with folks about it once a decision is made.  I think that Crazy even hit an ace at that thing.....

[bensdadfred]

HEy! For all those with panties that are not soiled, KC's own (And East side phenom) CD Steiner became the only player in the Wide Open history to WIN in every PRO division! I, for one would like to congratulate CD for many years of stellar play and doing what it takes to get it done! WELL DONE CD!! 

[Loomis]

Apparently captain smith didn't inform you that he showed me the weather pattern on HIS phone and when I said it doesn't seem to be moving our direction, HE replied, "It's coming." Again... Your TD. He was aware of the data and made it clear to me and even concluded that it was a threat. Five holes later, with lightning and thunder in our sky (we were south of you and the rest of tournament) the tournament wasn't called until the last second.

So it seems you aren't even aware of the circumstances at the course and with your own TD. I will make a note of that.