PDGA League in 2013 at Cliff

[Flying J]

I'm so upset I missed the first one.  I need to log on to the forum more often.  I'll be there next Monday and make sure I'm off every Monday from here on out.

[Jason Gillow]

i have a question, i was just reading up on the rec league at rosedale and i noticed when i was at cliff drive it was open and advanced, is their any real downside to rec playing the pdga league at cliff to get a better or say more accurate rating? and is cliff strictly open and advanced? okay let me break down that question, if a rec player plays advanced yet puts up a rec rated round would that hurt a rating in any way? i wouldnt mind playing the rec league but to grow in the sport id rather share the pad with top experience but im not trying to get my rating any lower than it already is.

[Tom]

PDGA ratings are established for players based on their score during a round as compared to propagators playing the same round. the division you play in and who you play against does not factor in.

[white mccoy]

Playing with better competition will only make you better, thus make your rating better as well

[jack]

PDGA ratings are established for players based on their score during a round as compared to propagators playing the same round. the division you play in and who you play against does not factor in.

ALthough true on the surface, this isn't entirely the case.  Your rating will be higher the more you play with higher rated players.  If you play a round with only people that are 1000 rated or higher, and then play a round with people only rated between 900-925 and shoot the same score, your rating when you played with the 1000+ rated individuals will be higher.

To answer your question though playing in a different division during the PDGA league your chances are that your rating will only improve in all honesty, unless you regress in your playing.

Please do remember that this Monday we are scheduled to be at Blue Valley though.  This week we will be playing the "inner course"

[jack]

http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/101855/1524497329

The ratings are posted.  I haven't figured out yet how to evaluate Par for people that miss a week, I will see if there is a fix.  If you want to have me change your division rankings on the PDGA site, please let me know.

I am finding some issues with this that I will be working on addressing.  For example, Matt Perry won last night in Open, but I bet he wants points as an Am since he plays Am....so do I change his code to Am even though he played as a Pro last night?  Am I going to have to move this ever week?  Or do I work on keeping 2 spreadsheets and posting actual scores in here from the league, and then having the PDGA really only be a place for points and ratings?

So as it stands right now, I have pretty much no idea of how this works.  I am trying to figure this out.

I will keep this posted.

[robm]

Yeah, I have no idea how it works, but I think there is something missing.

For instance, let's say Jason Gillow never plays again in Advance.  Since he had one round at +20, or 21 whatever it is, does he take First Place, along with the points, compared to Andy, Ryan and I even if we play every round?  Or how about he ends up playing 4 rounds, but some other guy only plays 2 rounds, shouldn't Jason get more points then the other guy?

This league posting is interesting.  Not sure if it is correct, but check out the placements, points, etc., particularly in Adv and Int.

http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/91919

At first I thought it ranked all those that played 5 rounds together, than ranked those that played 4 rounds, etc., but this isn't quite the case.  In Adv, first guy played 6 rounds, second place played 4 rounds, third place played 5 rounds.

Probably read this, but just in case: Introduction to PDGA Leagues:

http://www.pdga.com/leagues

If you want to ask questions about the PDGA league please feel free to visit the PDGA DISCussion Boards where I will be answering questions or email me directly at Kmccoy@PDGA.com

In my mind, if a guy plays 'Open' he's MPO.  If he wants to play Am - then he plays AM and is only entitled to funny money and not actual hard currency.  Just my opinion, you're the TD.

Only commenting to help you work through the learning curve.

[Tracy]

Wait, you can accumulate points at these.  tour points at leagues...  wtf?  Maybe this has the potential of going somewhere useful, but I doubt the PDGA has the right (read best for the players) future in mind.

http://www.pdga.com/leagues

The PDGA is so full of itself. Sorry to be a negative-nelly here, but:

PDGA:  "Chuck and Roger’s rating system is arguably the most exciting part of being a member."

TW: I am a PDGA member for many reasons.  Ratings is not one of them.

PDGA: "We are going to make your league better by offering PDGA player ratings to the equation"

TW: They are just claiming to do something great while really doing nothing at all.

PDGA: "It gives players more rated rounds that equates to more accurate player ratings."

TW: More rounds rated doesn't make your rating more accurate. It just makes it more average.

PDGA: "It will allow offering handicap events which are popular with recreational players."

TW: What handicapped events are they talking about that are so popular with rec players?  Also, the ratings system is absolutely awful for use as a handicapping system.  Try it and you'll see how it doesn't actually balance the playing field.

PDGA: "½ of the $1 league fee stays with the league for course improvements, baskets, charities, etc."

TW: We already put $1 per round for the KCFDC benefit at league. Now the PDGA comes in and wants to give $.50 per round of our money in their name?

Jack, I know you're just experimenting with this to see how it affects turnout.  In my opinion, it looks like just another way for the PDGA to squeeze more money out of disc golf communitees without really providing any service at all. "auto-magically" is, as us tourney directors know, the TD manually inputting and uploading data on the PDGA's behalf.  again, the PDGA does nothing but collect money.

That said, 20 isn't bad for turnout at BV.  Question is, who would have not gone out had it not been a PDGA (ugh) league?

[robm]

Wait, you can accumulate points at these?  What is the point scale? Are they classified as C-tiers?

Yes you get points.
No they are not C-tiers
They are a step below C's.  See last column.

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/2013-divisions-ratings-points-factors.pdf

if that don't work :

http://www.pdga.com/documents/divisions-ratings-points-factors

[robm]

Note: points are per week, not for the whole season.

Actually, this makes it more interesting.
First week, I would get only 2.5 pts because I was the bottom.
However, for 2nd week, I should get 5 pts because I beet Ryan.

Jack - maybe Kevin McCoy has some advice, etc., on how this is posted?  Maybe my posting above,

At first I thought it ranked all those that played 5 rounds together, than ranked those that played 4 rounds, etc., but this isn't quite the case.  In Adv, first guy played 6 rounds, second place played 4 rounds, third place played 5 rounds.

has more to do with how many people you beat each week then how many rounds you played.  This would make way more sense. 

[AdamC]

Jack, I seem to be missing from last nights scores.  I was on the same card as Joe, Matt, and Jordan and shot a 60. 

Adam Cossette #44380

[spinachio]

The. PDGA needs to send Rob a free shirt and hat

[jack]

Wait, you can accumulate points at these?  What is the point scale? Are they classified as C-tiers?

Yes you get points.
No they are not C-tiers
They are a step below C's.  See last column.

That is incorrect-
http://www.pdga.com/faq/leagues-0
Do players earn PDGA points?

Yes. Players will earn C-tier points based on their final finish position as reported to the PDGA by the League Director.

In my mind, if a guy plays 'Open' he's MPO.  If he wants to play Am - then he plays AM and is only entitled to funny money and not actual hard currency.  Just my opinion, you're the TD.

Wait, you can accumulate points at these.  tour points at leagues...  wtf?  Maybe this has the potential of going somewhere useful, but I doubt the PDGA has the right (read best for the players) future in mind.

Ok, on both of these, Tracy, yes you get points, and that was the reason it made sense to give out $.50/person in my mind.  I see that as enough of a warrant to charge the extra $1 that we must do at this league.  Also that money is going straight into the tree fund that Drew set up, so I liked adding to it directly, and still giving to the club.  This also does give some distinction at leagues in town, and it is essentially like a "C" tier weekly....my logic, WTF, why not give it a shot.

Rob, as to only paying people open that play open at league.  The goal of this was never to eliminate people from playing league at the level they want.  In most cases I am an amateur player that plays open at leagues and has since my 2nd year in town of being talked into going that direction.  I don't think that it is fair that I pay for a PDGA fee and then not accumulate the points based on the areas that I need to have them for the following year invites to worlds. (Which is all that points are worth, UNLESS you are going after the points total award....in which case these leagues may help, but bigger A-Tiers, etc will dwarf that even finishing middle of the pack).  So the logical step for me is to think about moving people to their "assigned" divisions that they want points in.

I understand the logic that you are saying, but to me as the TD, and as an advocate for people to push themselves in leagues more than they would in Tournament Sanction play, it makes sense.  Just like any Rec/Int, their points mean nothing, there isn't an INT world's, so playing in divisions that don't accumulate makes nothing happen.

Does that make sense Rob?


Adam, I believe I fixed it and added your name in there accordingly.  Thanks for catching that, sorry about missing it!

[robm]

Makes sense, just giving my 2 cents.

I wonder if the FAQ League Questions are out-dated from 2012?

This link:

http://www.pdga.com/documents/divisions-ratings-points-factors

is effective 1/1/13 and it lists League points has being half of C-tier points and that they are accumulated on a weekly basis.

[jack]

Who knows, that information changes all the time.  So it may only be 1/2 points of a C-Tier, but you are still getting the points regardless....which goes back to the argument, the points should remain with the person in the division that they want points.

I think that last year Ed Gonzales missed getting an invite by 5 points.....if he chose to play Master instead of Grand Master at leagues, he wouldn't get the points assigned appropriately.  So I want to be cognizant of our relationship to points, but remain true to the league as you wish to chose it.

As it appears to me now, it is looking like it is going to be requiring me to complete 3 different spreadsheets to make this work accordingly.

Such fun!