Author Topic: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM  (Read 1757 times)

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Ken Franks

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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2013, 05:32:59 PM »
the major difference IMO is, its a for profit business, making a profit, running an event on a club course...



 
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Ken Franks

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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2013, 05:35:13 PM »
Besides KCFDC, I'm also a LBG (Lawrence Brewer's Guild) forum rat.  They most important part of the forum locks out people that have not paid dues.  Personally, I think it is awesome.

ekolk - going back to when we met the first time at a board meeting - if I had to pay dues, I would have joined sooner.

 the FEEDGA also does this, though I believe you can read anything, but have to be current to post...

 I also think its a great idea....
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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2013, 05:39:25 PM »
the major difference IMO is, its a for profit business, making a profit, running an event on a club course...

It is a for-profit business that is offering a full-payout event. They aren't taking any money from the payout, according the the sample payout structure offered here, and are only making money if people opt to receive plastic payout at their store. Doesn't seem like huge windfall for them either way.

And, this might/should be the litmus test, are they using our insurance? If no, why pay us anything. It is still a public park whether or not it is supported by the KCFDC. They can/should do whatever they want out there. They have made it explicitly clear that this isn't a tournament and is for fun with a little side-action. They even said if you don't want to pay you don't have to and can just come out to play.

Utz

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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2013, 06:45:43 PM »
and are only making money if people opt to receive plastic payout at their store

^^This.

It could easily be against our terms and agreements of the forum:

"Publicity and/or solicitation for a cause or the promotion of goods and/or services will be monitored closely by the kcfdc.org forum administrators who are appointed by the Board of Directors. Generally, if a discussion topic is related to the KCFDC or disc golf (as a project or community), it will usually be allowed. Commercial promotions (specifically for-profit promotions) are discouraged and may be subject to removal."

We built this mechanism to be ambiguous. The fact they're posting payouts, and calling this an event is more than enough indication this could be commercial solicitation. Not to worry folks, we're already on the case and have contacted Mile North about how we can proceed where everyone wins and gets to do their thing. Conversely we do not want to punish those who use the proper channels for event planning ( e.g. DGW or DD)

Thanks everyone!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 06:50:38 PM by Utz »
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Aaron

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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2013, 07:35:56 PM »
I'm curious..... What is so top secret that we need to keep out non club members?  As a member I have yet to see anything on this forum that would warrent limitations of access. No wait how about we keep all the complaining and negativity to club members only that way the new players won't see it till it is too late. By then the club will have their money. Oh and my two cents, public courses can be played by any of the public, wether someone likes a privately owned business or not.
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jack

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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2013, 08:05:47 PM »
Public courses that have contracts with the KCFDC though must go through channels with the KCFDC to use the courses.

The KCFDC has maintained the courses over the years and the relationships with the parks.  Most of the parks you play on were built and maintained with members of the KCFDC in the name of the club and the promotion of the sport.  Just as the KCFDC has the working ability to "close" a course to public play during times agreed upon by the P&R and the club, the club also has a right in most of our courses to ensure that the work and efforts of thousands of hours of volunteer work over many decades at this point is secured.

Think about the courses you play the next time.  Though the city may have initially funded the baskets, chances are that the alternate placement you are playing is due to donations by the KCFDC.  The baskets Down Under were given to the WyCo because of the efforts of the KCFDC to host a world championships, in this case the course could theoretically be yanked by the club because the baskets there are not the county P&R, but rather the club's.  Now tihs isn't going to happen, but its something that should organizations choose to use the courses without following guidelines in place for all organizations and businesses could happen.  (it wont, just making a point)

The reality of it all is that this is a new disc golf related business asking/using a forum that is maintained by the club but didn't ask the club.  I am sure that things will be discussed to ensure that everything can work out.  I mean really how many people are going to attend an event at 9 on a Tuesday morning, and how much would it affect the other local players.

The goal of the club is to promote the sport and encouraging the growth and participation of our sport.  Another business working in the area that is new, may not be aware of the protocols needed and as such conversations will happen.  Ultimately it brings a continuity of the groups wanting to help the sport grow which should encourage more participation at all levels.

As for the $1/club fee I think that is for charitable events (generally refunded to the event in the name of the club), leagues, and then C-Tiers are now $2, B-Tiers $3, A-Tiers-$4, and NT's-$5 (non sanctioned I believe is $2/person per tournament).  I know that it was discussed I am uncertain if it was codified.  Yes there was a nominal fee of $50 for "closing" a course or the fees associated with the aforementioned pricing which ever is greater.

This stems from a long ago issue with some vendors coming to town and holding "Events" on club courses while they were traveling through town and it isn't fair to the club to lose that potential income stream for the work needed to maintain and orchestrate the things that the club does in many of our parks.  So it isn't something new, its just something that as former member of the BoD (Tank) rightfully is aware of now and wasn't afraid to ask.

It can all work and the goals are the same to make it good for everyone, so I am confident that everyone will be on the same page in regards to ensuring that events happen on the courses by multiple vendors/organizations.  This year alone, DGW, DD, LSDiscs, Corporate Challenge, etc.....have all hosted events following the procedures and that will continue to happen 
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 08:08:09 PM by jack »
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jamidanger

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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2013, 09:40:01 PM »
i'm going to try to make it out there and wango a wizard.
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MileNorthKCMO

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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2013, 02:04:02 PM »
EVENT CANCELLED!!!!  Sorry

coops

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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2013, 02:56:22 PM »
Well that's too bad.

Any particular reason?

Mike Hyzer

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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2013, 03:54:42 PM »
Well that's too bad.

Any particular reason?

Sounds like someone did not pay tribute to the KCFDC.
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jamidanger

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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2013, 04:33:35 PM »
that sucks, Tuesday morning actually fits my schedule. I like what y'all are trying to do though. if kcfdc is hindering your attempts to provide some fun for the golf community, it may be politically correct to post up in the "courses not affiliated with the kcfdc" section. down under is a fun course for one disc.
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Kelly Markum

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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2013, 05:00:56 PM »
it may be politically correct to post up in the "courses not affiliated with the kcfdc" section.

I don't think he can post anymore...the user id "milenorthkcmo" looks to be suspended. It shows him as a guest now instead of a novice poster or whatever it use to say
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jack

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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2013, 05:05:32 PM »
The issue as I see it is the protocols involved with the nature of a for-profit venture trying to use a course that is working with the KCFDC.  All other vendors and business, and charitable venues get it, so with them being new, they may not fully realize all the efforts that the KCFDC does in terms of the course maintenance, the partnerships with the P&R's, the years of planning for courses to get them in.  Some courses that have not gone in yet that are planned were first discussed almost 10 years ago.  These things take time, and to have a business that makes itself available to the sport locally should take the time to lean on and learn the best method to get that exposure.

I would bet that it is simply a matter of their need to follow guidelines that all are asked to do when looking to host an event on a KCFDC sponsored course.

Once they learn that angle it shouldn't be hard for them to get things along these lines moving would be my guess.  With as many events as we have now in KC, the need to have it organized in a fashion that is fair and manageable to all is needed.  The days of just picking a date and making it work aren't the norm.  Now it is more like, what day is available for an event, and will it work with the schedule that I am looking to do?
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coops

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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2013, 05:11:59 PM »
If the payout weren't structured to allow for store credit would this event have been blacklisted? (i.e. if it were 100% payout and the for-profit portion of the business were essentially taken out of this event)

jack

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Re: Down Under Single Disc 7/2 at 9:00 AM
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2013, 05:25:11 PM »
I don't think it was blacklisted (as you put it), any event though that is disc golf related on any of courses need to go through the channels.  Anytime that there are events in most of the cities that we are partners with, we get a call asking them to help with the dynamics of it.

I know that anything that comes near KCMO for example with a request they direct them to me personally to investigate it.  So if they had called the P&R chances are they would have been directed back to the KCFDC and the contact accordingly.

You can't just go out into a park and have/host an event due to all the liabilities involved without approval from the P&R.  It does happen, but the first time that it does happen without knowledge and there is an incident you can bet that it will never happen again.
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Jack Lowe-
Parks Development Director for KCFDC
Multiple PDGA Worlds TD
Course Designs
913.485.5123-C
"Disc Golf-
Like ball golf, only faster,
cheaper, and healthier!"