Author Topic: Pay to play in KC  (Read 2529 times)

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pmart

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Pay to play in KC
« on: July 03, 2013, 07:42:00 PM »
In honor of independence, freedom, and Murican rights  :) I thought it would be good timing to introduce a subject that I don't hear much talk about in these here parts....PAY TO PLAY.

In my limited travels to play dg (only played in 11 states, 81 courses) I have encountered nearly a dozen courses that were pay to play.  One thing seems to stand out as I play these courses...they are NICE.  Always trimmed/mowed, trash free, ivy/oak/sumac are under control, great tees/baskets/signs, most had some form of small disc shack where you could purchase your day pass/drinks/discs, landscaping and hardscaping features that bring beauty/function/challenge into play, little vandalism that I've noticed, ability to track who plays, accountability because of the ability to track who goes in and out of courses, and the list could probably go on.

I'll cut to the chase.  I love KC.  This is my hometown and I take great great pride in what some would consider one of the better metro areas in the entire country for dg.  However, I am genuinely concerned that our system for advancing and maintaining our courses is falling behind the times.  While you will be hard pressed to find a more engaged and motivated club in the entire country, I am wondering if perhaps a new system could leverage all of this dedicated club member energy and hard work ethic (as well as our partnerships with multiple townships) to help take our courses to the next level.  IMHO, and it pains me to say this, our courses (both old and new) need help, and we are quickly falling behind other metro areas around the country. I'm not talking about the kind of help that says "Let's have a work day" or "everyone do their part and pick up trash as you play".  I'm talking about help in the form of a pay to play system and all that this could do for the maintenance and upgrades that our courses desperately need.  As an example, I recently traveled to the Twin Cities and I was extremely impressed with every single course that was pay to play (which was 7 courses that I personally played).  The level of detail from cleanliness, upgrades, aesthetics, facilities, course grooming etc. was truly impressive and I found myself being jealous (not in a bad way, but in a way that made me really want this level of excellence and professional appearance in my hometown).  With this level of (all the attributes I listed above) applied to the incredible courses we have in KC we would have THE BEST COURSES of any metro area...hands down.  For those of you who have played Bryant Lake and Blue Ribbon Pines in Mpls., could you imagine that level of detail and attention applied to Water Works?  Absolutely makes WW's a top 5 course in the country without debate (and if people debate that I'll take their knees out).  Or what about Kessler, Wyco, Legacy, and the list could include many of our outstanding courses in KC? 

So, without rambling on and on, I just wanted to throw out some of my initial thoughts to perhaps give legs to what I feel is an important forward thinking question...Can KC (especially some of our crowning jewels) become pay to play?  What barriers need to be overcome to bring a level of excellence to our courses that rivals, wait, BLOWS AWAY every metro area in the country?  We are blessed with a great dg community as well as geological topography that is a gift from God (if you believe in one  ;) ), now, how can we make this hands down the best disc golf metro area no questions asked!

Please allow me to reiterate, this conversation has nothing to do with the past (because quite frankly, our dg community has an incredible storied past that takes us back to the pioneer days of the sport) but instead, it has to do with a deliberate executable system that enables our great dg club and board to elevate our courses into the top tier of courses in the world...once again.

Thank you for any discussion/opinions that you may have.  Happy 4th of July to everyone!!!




coops

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Re: Pay to play in KC
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2013, 09:43:15 PM »
I think it is an interesting idea and truly where the sport is going. In KC we have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to courses. What would have to happen in order for this to truly fly would be for it to be on private land and for it to be measurably different. Our wealth of courses also means people are less likely to want to pay for a round when they can go play WW or Cliff or PC for free. That and there is a large contingent of players in this area that are absolutely turned off to the idea of paying for a round of DG for any reason.

It is an interesting question and something that will continue to come up because this is where we're moving.

And if you ever get the chance to go out to Massachusetts make sure to get out to Maple Hill. It is pay to play and absolutely one of the top courses in the world.

jamidanger

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Re: Pay to play in KC
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2013, 11:28:54 PM »
ted nugent says it should be 'free for all', but yes it takes time and money to keep courses nice. same with public facilities like tennis courts and libraries. on the grand scale of the usa, we need to lower taxes by decreasing our military by 90% and focus on peace, health care, and fine arts, like disc golf which happens to fall into all 3 of those categories. let's remember to stop killing and start living this independence day.
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joots

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Re: Pay to play in KC
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2013, 08:14:34 AM »
For those of you who have played Bryant Lake and Blue Ribbon Pines in Mpls., could you imagine that level of detail and attention applied to Water Works?

My brother in law and I had a chance to throw those courses and said the same thing. I know surrendering WW to become a pay to play would hurt a lot of feelings, but just imagine the possibilities. Walking up hole 6's fairway and there no erosion (grass!), or hole 5 where the run off creek is, that seems to breed Mosquitos, not being as grotesque after a good rain.
 
  I love WW, and it being rated a top 20 course is super. So why change a good thing? Because, think of the possibilities.

  Good luck to all throwing today on Independence Day. Be safe!
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 01:55:52 PM by Utz »
Boom goes the Dynamite!

joots

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Re: Pay to play in KC
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2013, 08:15:40 AM »
I obviously don't know how to use the forum. That past post looks like an entire previous quote. Oops!
Boom goes the Dynamite!

Mike Hyzer

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Re: Pay to play in KC
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2013, 08:49:17 AM »
If y'all want to buy some land, put a course in, and charge folks to play that course, have at it.
When the government steals at least 35% of our money up front, then takes another 10% whenever we buy anything with that money, then insists on being paid a substantial annual fee in order for us to own real estate and personal property that we've also bought using money left over from prior government thievery, the least said government can do is allow us access to land that was purchased and maintained using the money they've stolen from us.

"Work days? Picking up trash? Nah, let's just throw money at it and let someone else do the work."

Independence Day... yeah, whatever.
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pmart

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Re: Pay to play in KC
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2013, 09:44:46 AM »
Sounds like you need an Independence Day hug Mr. Hyzer :-* (of course from someone more appropriate than me).  If i'm not mistaken the courses that are pay to play in Mpls. (other than Blue Ribbon Pines) are state/gov. owned so there was no need to go out and buy a private piece of land and build a new course.  The p&r that maintains the parks grouped 3 parks together and charges $35 for a year long pass (for unlimited play) on all 3.  If $35 was all it takes to create the type of environments I personally witnessed, than sign me up!!  I am sure that their local dg club works hand in hand with these parks (on various levels) but the $35 paid by its players holds these parks in direct accountability to keep these courses in excellent playing shape. 
I do not take offense to your statement "just throw money at it and let someone else do the work".  I believe I understand where you are coming from in saying that.  My experience in life tells me though that when a system gets to large to properly maintain and advance itself with excellence, than it is time to adjust the system.  We (and by this I mean all of you who have poured countless hours/months/years into Kansas City disc golf) have done an incredible job to grow this sport into what we enjoy today, however, I believe it is time to inject more strength and more resources into our disc golf community to facilitate a renaissance of our older tired courses.  We are falling behind other metro areas in how we run and maintain our courses and if we are not careful we could see our wonderful courses get bypassed by the pdga and NT events in the near future.  I do not want to see this happen for a plethora of reasons.
   

Mike Hyzer

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Re: Pay to play in KC
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2013, 10:06:59 AM »
  If $35 was all it takes to create the type of environments I personally witnessed, than sign me up!!
 

By itself, it seems reasonable, but I don't want to give another cent in addition to what is already stolen/assessed/levied. Like I said, if you want a disc golf course that looks like a ball golf course, buy some land, hire a grounds crew, and if the demand is there, all of that will pay for itself with your fees. Lotsa luck. ;D
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edwinwhatshisface

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Re: Pay to play in KC
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2013, 01:55:14 PM »
I think it is a great idea, but it may discourage the spirit of the game.  I love seeing new people learn the sport, because I too, was one of those people.  Politics aside, one of the reasons I love and promote this sport is because of the low cost to get started and the fact that it get's people outdoors and being physically active.
"I'm a mushroom-cloud-layin' mother******, mother******! Every time my fingers touch brain, I'm Superfly T.N.T., I'm the Guns of the Navarone!"  -Jules-

Dale W

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Re: Pay to play in KC
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2013, 08:07:57 PM »
on the grand scale of the usa, we need to lower taxes by decreasing our military by 90% and focus on peace, health care, and fine arts, like disc golf which happens to fall into all 3 of those categories.

Good luck with that....you wont have the last three without the first one.  Just look at history.

I actually like the concept.....leave some (many?) courses for those that don't want to play a nice, trash free course, but have some that charge a REASONABLE fee ($35 for a year on 3 or 4 or more courses is very reasonable) and has good signage, trash free, mowed on a regular basis, and taken care of.  A small percentage of club members do a lot for our courses, but the vast majority of the non club member playing public trash the work of those few....plus the courses get mowed when ever P & R decide to do it....not necessarily when they need to be mowed.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 08:17:46 PM by Dale W »
Sorry to hear about your luck!!!   :P

Ken Franks

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Re: Pay to play in KC
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2013, 12:06:49 AM »
I would love to see a pay to play course that is WELL maintained...
Talent beats hard work, but Hard work beats Talent that doesn't work hard...

pmart

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Re: Pay to play in KC
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2013, 11:05:44 AM »
Are there any KCFDC board members that frequent the sight that would be open to some serious exploration into a 2-3 course pay to play system?  I am willing to partner with a group of individuals to do a feasibility study and a comparison study of other pay to play courses to see if this might be something that benefits our disc golf community.  Or maybe a valid study has recently taken place?  I would love to see the data that was gathered for that if at all possible for learning purposes. 
I would like to say that I have no bias as to what courses would be suggested for this type of system, I only have a bias towards creating better disc golf for our city. 
 

jamidanger

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Re: Pay to play in KC
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2013, 11:18:46 AM »
i'm not a board member, but Smithville and old pike are technically pay to play, and Smithville is worth it due to the extra amenities offered. hazelweeds in stl is a very long standing city-run pay course and gets beat down from the high traffic. the best models of pay courses I have heard of are golfer designed as in texas and north Carolina.
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jteater

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Re: Pay to play in KC
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2013, 01:01:18 PM »


Re: Pay to play in KC

Reply #11 on: Today at 11:05:44 AM

Quote


Are there any KCFDC board members that frequent the sight that would be open to some serious exploration into a 2-3 course pay to play system?  I am willing to partner with a group of individuals to do a feasibility study and a comparison study of other pay to play courses to see if this might be something that benefits our disc golf community.  Or maybe a valid study has recently taken place?  I would love to see the data that was gathered for that if at all possible for learning purposes. 
I would like to say that I have no bias as to what courses would be suggested for this type of system, I only have a bias towards creating better disc golf for our city. 
 


You have been on this board 5 months, and you want to do a feasibility study to make some of the courses that are already built and in use, to convert them to pay to play. I say BS.


coops

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Re: Pay to play in KC
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2013, 01:42:27 PM »
You have been on this board 5 months, and you want to do a feasibility study to make some of the courses that are already built and in use, to convert them to pay to play. I say BS.

In what way does his amount of time active on the forum suggest that his idea is a BS idea?

People need to stop jumping down each other's throats for ideas and suggestions outside the status quo. The only way we will improve is if we aren't afraid to look at the systems in place and dream of how they could be better.

Now, can we have a reasonable discussion about this or shall we continue to make absurd accusations based nowhere in reality?