Author Topic: Northeast League July 15th 2013  (Read 548 times)

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jack

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Northeast League July 15th 2013
« on: July 16, 2013, 09:17:41 AM »
Someone drove their other car in today to work and left the worksheet in the other vehicle.

I know that Eric Kuitunen from Minnesota came in and shot the hot round of 51, stepping over CD who had a solid 52, Eric's sole blemish was a 5 on the island #17.  Jose came in third with a 57, I shot a 58, as did George Rousis, Beckett a 59, I think that Melrose shot a 61, Kelly Warren shot a 63, Edwin a 68, and Tom Jones a 69 after coming back to disc golf after 10 yrs.  His "newest" plastic in the bag was a couple of Blizzard discs he bought last week, otherwise he had this thing called a Champion Edition Firebird in his bag as his latest disc....Had some trouble over powering the blizzard, but I think that he is going to be around again for awhile now!

Ryan Keck shot a solid 57 in the Adv men and Bill Shinoski wasn't able to beat that on the night, so Ryan took home top honors in that division for the night.

Once I get the information accurately from the element, then I will upload this week and last week's results for the ratings.

It was a good night to be out golfing!  I hope you made it out, the rest of the week looks to be a hot one!
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Flying J

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Re: Northeast League July 15th 2013
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2013, 11:12:18 AM »
Fun league last night.

BTW, Edwin shot a 69.
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jhinck2

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Re: Northeast League July 15th 2013
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2013, 11:14:50 AM »
Fun league last night.

BTW, Edwin shot a 69.

Ouch Jose, give him the 68 for crying out loud!!  8)
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Flying J

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Re: Northeast League July 15th 2013
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2013, 11:19:10 AM »
If I can erase my bogey on 18 and change my score to a 56 then yeah, 68 for Edwin :)
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jack

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Re: Northeast League July 15th 2013
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2013, 09:17:45 AM »
http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/105302/1657250514

WOW!  Looking at the scores the previous week you can see just how much the propagators influence the ratings.  Jose shot a 57 both last week and this week yet the difference is 31 points off.  Lets look at this a little more.....Average rating on the 7/8 league night was-939.75 and the average on Monday was 868.2....THe only person whose rating I don't have access to is Beckett, but the last time I checked, I think that he was above 970, so these averages are missing him. It is amazing to me that the ratings truly are only based on the others playing that night, and doesn't really account for anything other than numeration components.  I kept thinking about this at Worlds, as the ratings seemed so low in so many cases for our divisions based on other divisions scoring, and yet again for some silly reason I am surprised.

Argh, you know I have beaten this thing to death about ratings over the years, and still can't seem to fathom how this is the model we use. Our sport has came a long way, and we will continue to move forward.  This though is about the most stagnant part of our sport now, as this is over a decade now and little modification to make it more fluid and accurate.  That is something that I think we should be looking at to help.

Regardless, we had a great night out there on the course.  Eric came in and kicked some booty.   
No Ace was hit so the Ace Fund moves to $395 for next week.
Name      Score   Rating   Payout
Open
Eric Kuitunen   51   1017    Won $14
Duane CD Steiner   52   1008   Won $9
Jose Ossa   57   960   Won $7
George Rousis   58   951   
Jack Lowe   58   951   
Beckett Carduff   59   941   
Kelly Warren   61   922   
Scott Melrose   63   904   
Tom Jones   68   856   
Edwin Hart   69   847   

Advanced         
Ryan Keck   57   960   Won $5 KcKash
Bill Shinoski   67   866   


« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 09:20:00 AM by jack »
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jack

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Re: Northeast League July 15th 2013
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2013, 10:24:18 AM »
Update-Beckett is a 995 rated golfer (Kelly Warren=762, George Rousis=925, Tom Jones=916, Kevin Cobett=962)
New averages-
Monday July 8th Average Ratings of players=950.8
Monday July 15th Average Rating of players=917.5

Difference in Averages of ratings= 33.3
Difference in round rating from same rated player on same layout=31

This again shows that it is the players playing that make the rating, and not really the "player" or the course.

IDK, just bothers me some.  Handicapping people accordingly makes sense, but this starts to show even more chinks in the process.
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Jack Lowe-
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"Disc Golf-
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jamidanger

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Re: Northeast League July 15th 2013
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2013, 10:46:33 AM »
beckett rated 995 bothers me too. maybe weather, vibe and course conditions are as much a factor as the field of players. wish I still had Mondays off so I could propagate at cliff drive!
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jack

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Re: Northeast League July 15th 2013
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2013, 11:20:21 AM »
me too, I had to hunt to get Becketts rating.  Can see that Duffy is an 816 rated golfer (But hasn't renewed in so long that his B-day isn't even listed in the file) but Beckett is completely off the list of expired/current membership list that I got from the PDGA before the Wide Open.  I am using that information to identify these things.  Beckett was current last year, and is missing, then people that haven't "renewed" in over a decade I have information about.....

Oddity to say the least.
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robm

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Re: Northeast League July 15th 2013
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2013, 02:22:18 PM »
So if I play against Wysocki my rating will go up?
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jack

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Re: Northeast League July 15th 2013
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2013, 02:53:47 PM »
exactly.  THe higher the average rating the higher the rating will be.  So even though I shot a 960 rated round on a course, a few hours later in another division that same round was rated almost 28 points more....nothing changed but the divisions.

Most folks know this (who have been following ratings for awhile), some of the newer players may not though, so this is why I brought up the issue.....this is also why 1100+ rated rounds are happening now as well....
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robm

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Re: Northeast League July 15th 2013
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2013, 04:38:31 PM »
While it does have a significant impact, there are other factors as well.

Quote
The scores thrown by propagators each round are used to calculate the SSA rating for a specific course layout. A propagator is a current member whose rating is over 799 and is based on at least 8 rounds. As long as there are 5 propagators playing a course layout, ratings can be calculated. The average rating of all propagators will equal the average rating they get for the round – always. If the same course layout is used more than one round, the scores from multiple rounds will be used to determine an overall SSA, as long as the individual round SSAs come out close to each other, so everyone gets the same rating for the same score on the same course. If the SSAs are significantly different, likely due to varying wind conditions, the round ratings will be calculated separately. If a propagator shoots more than 60 points below their rating, their score will not be used in the SSA calculations.



http://www.pdga.com/faq/ratings-0

Quote
Why is the SSA calculated for each round rather than using a fixed course rating like ball golf?
There’s no way to determine what an official SSA value would be for a course simply by taking measurements, looking at foliage, fairway widths and accounting for hazards. Not only that, it’s common for TDs to add temp holes, change tee or pin positions, or use new courses such that no SSA would be on file for that layout anyway. Using the scores of players with established ratings to produce an SSA has proven to be an accurate way to indicate how the course played that round. The only weakness of this system is that we require only 5 propagators to generate an SSA. Statisticians would prefer we use at least 30 propagators minimum for better accuracy. However, the PDGA has chosen 5 so that more players would get ratings. Some smaller divisions who play shorter layouts may not have very many propagators on a layout that round and would not get ratings in several events. The slightly higher inaccuracies produced with this system for individual rounds tend to even out over time. Plus, no round rating remains in an active player’s rating more than 12 months before it disappears.


It is an imperfect system, if nothing else we are considering fluctuating unknowns - weather and human performance - but it does seem pretty decent.

A good example of how it doesn't work, 2012 GBO, I had a 8am tee time at Muni.  The tee times 3-4 hours later had 10-15 mph winds stronger then during my round (20 vs. 35), yet my score was compared to them.  That round was my highest rated round for over one year while I know I improved.  That round was rated too high, later rounds were rated too low.  Over time though they do average out.

I do agree with you...it is an imperfect system.  But it is a tool I do like to reference.
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