Author Topic: What's going on with the lack of information?  (Read 1533 times)

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white mccoy

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What's going on with the lack of information?
« on: August 07, 2013, 01:46:24 PM »
We used to be pretty good on here about getting scores and Ace funds announced in a timely manner.  Now I rarely see any info for weeks at a time on over half the leagues ran in town. 

Is there some inter-political dispute going on between League Directors and KCFDC we don't know about?
Or is everybody just too busy?/Lazy?

Are we trying to hide the amount of our Ace-funds so out-of towners don't come in and take it?
Or have we just lost track of where the money is? /Or somebody is in Vegas right now trying to double-it on black, and we will all be surprised later? ;D

Anyway, not b%tching, just wondering why the information highway is so broke-down right now.

If everybody is too busy, just email me all your league info, and I will submit it, with all the endless time I have at work surfing the web ???
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jhinck2

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Re: What's going on with the lack of information?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2013, 01:55:05 PM »
I've so much as started posting at least my card's scores after leagues for this reason.  The only one that I see really consistently (don't bite my head off if I miss somebody) posted is Swope.  Van sometimes takes a bit of time to get it up, but it gets up at least before the next week's league.  Too many are left not posted.  I agree 100% Joe.     
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white mccoy

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Re: What's going on with the lack of information?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2013, 02:13:11 PM »
Is Shawnee Mission league still happening, Peter?
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jack

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Re: What's going on with the lack of information?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2013, 02:35:50 PM »
.....The only one that I see really consistently (don't bite my head off if I miss somebody) posted is Swope.....   

Not gonna bite anyone's head off, but I don't think that I have missed any this year.  Of course when I was away I had to do it remotely, and at times my travel makes it a little hard....but I work to get out the information.  Especially since the PDGA component on my league in all honesty, it is very nice to see a RATING attached with the round, and due to that I attempt to get it done relatively quickly.

Saddened though that I wasn't mentioned as being consistent in that comment.  It's ok, I will be ridiculed for something else as well soon enough!

Joe I think that you are spot on this information needs to be shared often with individuals.  I think that it is a matter of prioritization on getting the information out.  It takes some effort, and that seems to be the issue, I don't think that it is a situation where the information is being prevented.

Along those same lines though I think that Tom Butler does a solid job of score posting as well.  We have a few that seem to not be as active in posting the information, Rosie and WW come to mind....since they are the bigger league locations, more interest in them is apparent, and therefore makes us all wonder where things are at in regards to them....

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jhinck2

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Re: What's going on with the lack of information?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2013, 02:40:15 PM »
I knew I would miss some - yes, NE league is always posted.  Well done Jack!
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jack

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Re: What's going on with the lack of information?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2013, 02:48:03 PM »
All I could think of was my best Howard Stern voice of "Hey Now...."

I think that it is the Bigger leagues that we are missing.  I used to try to keep track of all the leagues on a spreadsheet so that we could also see who went to the most leagues.  I think that year it was Kevin Smith (Big Country Kevin) that made it to like 114 leagues.  (at the time thought we only had 1 league each night..Mon-Olathe..Tue-Swope..Wed-Rosie..Thu-WW..Fri-WyCo....so it was a little bit easier to track....)

It also though showed the following year that I was going through my divorce that I went from playing in over 80 leagues to a drop of under 40 the following year....I was trying to show that wasn't the issue.....:-) 

At any rate I like the stats side of it, and the more that we can do to show that the better.  I had I think the lowest average league totals for each league (minimum 12 leagues) most time away from home award.....It really helps to keep things moving forward, and hopefully we can draw up enough interest to keep that moving ahead accordingly!
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The Bird Father

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Re: What's going on with the lack of information?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2013, 04:21:33 PM »
PC/Lakeside has been OK...all the info is there just a little behind at times.

After the KCFDC website got the beg a few months back...Tom and I have not been allowed on this site through work...so...only computer time is at home...which turns into golf or work on the course during summer hours.

I use my phone most times during work to post....and typing on a phone is not an easy or timely task.

 ???

But other then that...yeah...other league directors get your act together!!    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

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john theiss

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Re: What's going on with the lack of information?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2013, 05:19:22 PM »
running leagues is such a chore.  tracking money from week to week, ace fund money, money in and money out, depositing money, posting info after leagues, paper work paper work paper work.  I tried it and it was something that i dreaded.  folks get upset over small things, your the first one there and last to leave often etc.  leagues are the KCFDC's lifeblood and getting and keeping folks in the position is difficult.   it is a hard job to keep filled from year to year on certain courses.   yes, we are a voluntary organization, but there needs to be an incentive to run league.  this has been discussed before and so many folks trash any suggestions or thoughts of incentives.  i think that it is becoming more obvious that this needs to be discussed with the board.  you cant keep asking for folks to volunteer for trash pick up, volunteer for work days, volunteer for a 3/4 of a year league position, and expect high enthusiasm, strong turnout, and quality performances.  at some point something has to give. if you want quality at your leagues, it has to be worth it for folks to give so much.  so here are some suggestions and i do not care if get lambasted by all those remarks of why we give back.. the spirit of volunteerism, blah blah blah.  I do not care to here folks replies of why we should not give back to those who give to the club. 

1.all league runners get free entry into the KCWO
2.all league runners get free membership in KCFDC
3. all league runners get a nice KCFDC embroidered shirt that has their course name on it.
4. possibly work out  a store discount for league runners (like the  kcfdc $1 off at DGW)

Any one else have any suggestions on how to provide incentives to league directors that make the directors feel a little more appreciated and which in turn makes the position more desirable and highly sought after? If folks really want the position, you get better folks in the position.  Plus, then folks  may not want to lose  the position,  it is sought after, and it offers great incentives.  We are a volunteer group and we should not pay in USD, but it is time to explore the league process and incentives.

robm

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Re: What's going on with the lack of information?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2013, 05:33:40 PM »
John's right.  Feed the horse while it's treading the grain.

I like points #1 or 2 for the year after they fulfill a full season.  This avoids the inevitable someone dropping the ball.  If I was told I would get paid entry into the KCWO the following year, I would seriously consider running a league.  Especially if I had 'x' weeks off (say 1 per 6 weeks) that I could use a substitute for the irregular family duties.

#3 is nice, but I personally wouldn't get too excited about it.

#4 is OK, but I bet most league coordinators have a fairly decent inventory and are not buying a whole lot.  i would think newbies buy the most merch

I would add a #5.  $'X' KC Kash per week you run a league.  Immediate reward that could be immediately used or saved to buy a larger item (bag, shoes, target).  Make the league coordinator KC Kash a different look, etc. to differentiate from reg KC Kash and be given to the coordinator by the State VP.  Doesn't hurt to have systems in place to keep honest people honest.
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Utz

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Re: What's going on with the lack of information?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2013, 12:04:00 AM »
Well I'm certainly guilty here. Since the Wide Open, I've fallen off as far as converting scores and payouts to online readable formats. From next week forward I'll be entering league data on Thursday nights directly into a tablet or laptop. Time to start using technology (duh)! Water Works has had 599 participants so far this season on 17 played weeks. We're averaging over 35 people a week. I confirmed with Teddy Keith that June 6th 2013 was a record breaking night, at 56 participants at WW!

Ask what you can do to help folks. The KCFDC world goes round through volunteer hours, as well as selfless thoughts and actions. If it takes Jack Lowe getting nasty, and spreading wild rumors about you at song night, fine; let it fire you up to make disc golf better in KC. Expect more from me, ask me how we can make it better!

Seriously, if you're into technology and want to use your skills toward making KC the best DG city on the planet; the KCFDC tech team needs you. Come use your brain  ô¿ô
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jamidanger

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Re: What's going on with the lack of information?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2013, 05:54:47 AM »
one idea would be to snap a pic of the league sheet at the end of the league night and post it, if your handwriting is legible.
espouse elucidation

Tom

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Re: What's going on with the lack of information?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2013, 07:02:12 AM »
I used the think it might be nice to get paid entry into the league, for running league. The more I've thought about it though, I don't thnk ANY incentives should be made available to the league directors. In my opinion, the folks that volunteer and do things for the Club and for the greater Disc Golf good aren't doing it for stuff.
I also think making the work seem more attractive by offering perks won't draw "better" volunteers, only greedier ones.  :)


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Re: What's going on with the lack of information?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2013, 08:18:17 AM »
one idea would be to snap a pic of the league sheet at the end of the league night and post it, if your handwriting is legible.
Good idea.  Or use the easy scorecard app to submit the scores via email.
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jack

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Re: What's going on with the lack of information?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2013, 08:45:19 AM »
I used the think it might be nice to get paid entry into the league, for running league. The more I've thought about it though, I don't thnk ANY incentives should be made available to the league directors. In my opinion, the folks that volunteer and do things for the Club and for the greater Disc Golf good aren't doing it for stuff.
I also think making the work seem more attractive by offering perks won't draw "better" volunteers, only greedier ones.  :)


Agreed.  I have ran leagues over the years because I love to help out the club.  Incentives to run league or being paid, sorry John, I don't agree with.  The issue really comes down to why is their time more valuable than anyone else that does the work?

It takes at most 2 hours to run leagues.  That is getting there say 45 minutes early, staying 60 minutes later (Thanks CD) and then spending about 15 minutes on the spreadsheet if you do a full blown one.  You could count in there the time to deposit at the nearest bank, but I bet if you asked one of the board members to deposit your money for you they would.

I understand that you feel that asking people to volunteer is too much, but that is the instance of the all volunteer organization.  The only paid position in my mind should be a CPA for the club in the future to ensure that we are fiscally accountable when it becomes a 501c.....

The notion that those running league get a fee pass though nice, alienates those that do work that don't get credit....when we were out at Blue Valley on Monday Kreeger was out there hard at work, and I mean hard, guess what, that was a Monday, he will be out there on Tuesday, on Thursday, probably Saurday...so does he get nothing because he works 3-5 hours a day at the park 3-4x week?

Do we only incentivize those that bring financial input to the club?  Then why wouldn't I be so for the grants that come into the club?  Why not Rick and DD for the memberships that they take at the stores?

Only those that enter information in the computer? 

I get what you are saying that there should be a carrot, the issue is if you aren't charging for your own disc golf design work, which should be paid, why would you desire to pay those that volunteer a few hours a week on something that they already love, or wouldn't be doing?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/volunteer?s=t

a person who performs a service willingly and without pay.

If you don't want to do it, DON'T volunteer.  Also though if you don't volunteer, I really don't feel that you have any right to complain.  I volunteer, so I complain, and I do so very loud, but then that is me, and most know this.

It's not that I don't think that our volunteers shouldn't be given things, so please don't read it that way, the issue again with me personally, is why limit the volunteers to one option.  This is the option of the league runners, I think a few weeks back it was the people that work on the course....the people behind the scenes get very little attention again, but I hope you can see that ultimately it takes a wide assortment of people to make this work, and realistically we need more help. 

Wouldn't it be better if we had different people running leagues monthly?  Every month a new person steps up to help?

Wouldn't it be great if we had multiple people pick up trash every week?

Wouldn't it be nice if we had others that went out to help trim and prune in conjunction with the design of the course?

The issue is that we tend to (not always, but TEND) to let and have the same people do the work, and that is what truly hurts volunteerism.  If no one else steps up, people do get tired, even paying them they get tired, so why not just instead of offering to pay just volunteer to help?

John you do a lot, and I am not directing this at you, but rather the notion, so I hope you don't take this as a chide against you, it is merely again the stance that I take, and it's my stance.

It really though in my mind boils down to how do you define volunteerism, and if you pay people, then we need to raise the fees to pay them, and who do we pay, and how and at what rate?  Capitalism at its finest at that point should come into play.....I want more than others and I think that I am worth it!  (Please note sarcasm was ON in that last statement!)   ;D 8) :-*
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Mike Hyzer

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Re: What's going on with the lack of information?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2013, 09:27:32 AM »
Definitely nice to see the scores posted here, rather than on Facebook or Google.
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